New to Forum, watched many Youtube vids.

Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#1
Hi everybody. I found this forum after watching a good number of AH Youtube vids.
I really like the videos. Very down to Earth and highly informative.
I really like the fact that they aren't trying to push snake oil.

I currently run a PS3 for Youtube on my TV. That is my source for music, documentaries, and just favorite channels.(like this one)
I'm using a "theater in a box" I bought about 10 years ago from Best Buy. I got rid of the little speakers last year and just use it as a 2 channel "amp" for a pair of cheap Klipsch Bookshelves. It works.
I live in an apartment so I can't crank the music.
However I really want to upgrade to some 2 ch. analog amplification. Mainly I have my heart set on that Yamaha 801 Integrated Amp.
And better speakers.
I'd like to learn more about how to optimize this kind of set-up.
For one thing, I'm still confused about the audio path between the PS3, the Smart TV and the amp(with Dacs)...Is that the best route?
Anyways, thanks alot.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Ratings
4,146 32 17
#2
The problem with the Yamaha 801 for your use is that it doesn't have any HDMI connectivity. You would need some kind of HDMI adapter to use it. In my opinion, it is not worth it. However, if your PS3 is your only source, than maybe you can use the digital output to go into the digital input on the Yamaha 801. That should work. But the Yamaha will not work with any devices that only have HDMI outputs, and that might be newer consoles like the PS4 and XBOX.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
835 1 1
#3
Instead of Yamaha 801, you could do Yamaha RX-V683 or RX-A770 for HDMI2.0b
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#4
The problem with the Yamaha 801 for your use is that it doesn't have any HDMI connectivity. You would need some kind of HDMI adapter to use it. In my opinion, it is not worth it. However, if your PS3 is your only source, than maybe you can use the digital output to go into the digital input on the Yamaha 801. That should work. But the Yamaha will not work with any devices that only have HDMI outputs, and that might be newer consoles like the PS4 and XBOX.
Right these are the things I am contemplating. The 801 has an optical in though. Right now I'm feeding the PS3 into the TV thru HDMI and then Optical out from the TV to the receiver.
Plus the 801 has a USB input which I would like to use to play lossless music from my computer.
Another thing I've just noticed on this Forum is people talking about this Nvidia Shield TV. I have to check that out.
I'm only using the PS3 for You Tube. The BluRay player crapped out a year ago. I don't play games on it.
Occasionally I'll watch a free movie on Crackle with it.
Thanks for responding.
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#5
Instead of Yamaha 801, you could do Yamaha RX-V683 or RX-A770 for HDMI2.0b
No, thanks for the reply. I want 2 channel, analog audio. Mainly for music listening.
The 801 has a USB input for computers. It has an optical in too.
Supposedly it has good DACs. That's all I need.
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#7
AVRs also produce 2ch analog stereo. Your sources are digital so don't overthink the analog part :)
That's what I'm currently running.
It's a Samsung AV Receiver that came with 5.1 speakers. I bought it 10 years ago.
It's an HWC560s. I'm running that with only 2 speakers connected to the Left and Right Front outs.
A pair of Klipsch R15m Bookshelves.
I understand what you're saying about the source being digital.
What are some AVRs that produce 2 ch. analog audio?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,723 18 47
#8
That's what I'm currently running.
It's a Samsung AV Receiver that came with 5.1 speakers. I bought it 10 years ago.
It's an HWC560s. I'm running that with only 2 speakers connected to the Left and Right Front outs.
A pair of Klipsch R15m Bookshelves.
I understand what you're saying about the source being digital.
What are some AVRs that produce 2 ch. analog audio?

Okay, that Samsung's pretty low on the avr totem pole :) I think all avrs, even that Samsung, produce 2ch analog audio, with the option of bass management for a sub and adjustments via dsp, or simple unadulterated 2.0 stereo. I like the option of hdmi, that's what I use for audio or video sourced from my computer. I use avrs in several rooms, for 2 ch or multich music myself and I do have displays for video in each room. I still have some of my old analog (all analog) gear but that's one reason I don't use it any more due it's lack of handling digital signals, it resides in the spare rooms.

That said if you don't see yourself wanting multich capabilities or need video switching or need hdmi then the 801 just might do it for you.

Not sure I see the value in buying a $8-900 amp to run a pair of speakers that go for $300 or so; it should be reversed IMO for sound quality, that's where most of your money should be going, to the speakers.
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#11
I hope you have a decent amount of patience Lovinthehd.
I want to get all of this down before I get a new system.
I guess it boils down to the TV? Right?
If I'm using something to put A/V into the TV(like a PlayStation, or a ROKU, or a Blu Ray player)
Then I can get the audio out of the TV to the amp via Optical, right?
That's what I'm doing now. It seems ok.
Is that acceptable?
The PS4 or whatever can send the signal to the TV via HDMI. And then I can just get the audio out of the TV into the amp.
This is all too complicated for me. Thank you for responding. I really appreciate it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,723 18 47
#12
I hope you have a decent amount of patience Lovinthehd.
I want to get all of this down before I get a new system.
I guess it boils down to the TV? Right?
If I'm using something to put A/V into the TV(like a PlayStation, or a ROKU, or a Blu Ray player)
Then I can get the audio out of the TV to the amp via Optical, right?
That's what I'm doing now. It seems ok.
Is that acceptable?
The PS4 or whatever can send the signal to the TV via HDMI. And then I can just get the audio out of the TV into the amp.
This is all too complicated for me. Thank you for responding. I really appreciate it.
Sometimes ;)

Yes if you're using a tv, and AV gear like a game console, optical disc players and video streaming devices, hdmi is the best option IMO. We generally route all the hdmi sources into the avr and then use the avr to switch sources (or even source audio from your tv, if avr and tv are ARC enabled altho sometimes ARC causes some issues and optical currently has most of the audio capabilities of ARC). If no multich down the line for you, something like an integrated amp may make sense but for the money you put in that integrated amp you're asking about you could have a more capable avr for connectivity and other uses down the line....

That said if current gear/setup works for you, then maybe better speakers might be a better use of the money....most of the sound is in the speakers and your room's interaction with the speakers, the electronics are a minor factor in comparison.
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#14
Sometimes ;)


That said if current gear/setup works for you, then maybe better speakers might be a better use of the money....most of the sound is in the speakers and your room's interaction with the speakers, the electronics are a minor factor in comparison.
Yeah speakers will have to wait. I'm in an apartment. The acoustics are absolutely horrendous.
Not to mention I have to listen relatively quietly.
You're making me think though.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,723 18 47
#16
Yeah speakers will have to wait. I'm in an apartment. The acoustics are absolutely horrendous.
Not to mention I have to listen relatively quietly.
You're making me think though.
You can have better speakers in an apartment and there are things you can do to maximize your acoustic space. Thinking things through rather than just spending money on gear is a good thing. How's the used marketplace near you? You could likely pickup an used avr/receiver/integrated amp for a very good price, people are always spending money on new gear and having to get rid of the old gear....bigger the metro area the more choices you'll have.
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#17
You can have better speakers in an apartment and there are things you can do to maximize your acoustic space. Thinking things through rather than just spending money on gear is a good thing. How's the used marketplace near you? You could likely pickup an used avr/receiver/integrated amp for a very good price, people are always spending money on new gear and having to get rid of the old gear....bigger the metro area the more choices you'll have.
The only parameter I know of on how to judge speakers is price.
I know freq response. That's about it. All those other specs are Greek to me.
I have another pair of powered monitors that I use for another application, and they aren't very good either.
And there is no sense in upgrading these items in this environment. I can't even use the monitors properly because of noise restrictions in this place. They aren't even dynamic until a certain output level.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,723 18 47
#18
Volume isn't the only thing aside from price on the other hand. Do you have the opportunity to audition speakers in stores? Give you an idea of basic differences among the brands/price points. Might want to learn more about what various measurements might tell you, maybe a few articles like these might help.
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/measure-loudspeaker-performance
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-measurement-standard
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
4,600 11 6
#19
I just read this thread for the first time this morning. It seems Mid-Fi, the OP, is confused over a number of things. One is whether he should choose a multi-channel AVR or a 2-channel stereo integrated amp, such as the Yamaha A-S801, for reasons of better sound quality. The answer is simple – there is no advantage in sound quality that a 2-channel integrated amp offers over an AVR. If someone wants to use only two speakers, an AVR can do this no better or worse than a 2-channel only system.

Mid-Fi is also confused about how to wire up a variety of different audio and video sources, a TV, and a sound system. This is a more complex question and has been answered already by lovinthehd (above). Because this question has been asked by others before, and will probably be asked again in the future, I thought I would try to restate the answer, in more general terms.
Right now I'm feeding the PS3 into the TV thru HDMI and then Optical out from the TV to the receiver.
Mid-Fi is using his TV as the central hub of his system, with input from his PS3, a source of both audio & video (AV). He wants to send audio out from the TV to the receiver. If he gets the Yamaha A-S801 (a 2-channel integrated amp) he must send sound to it by an optical digital audio connection.

As lovinthehd pointed out (post #12, above),HDMI connections are a better choice than optical.

What I'd like to add is that the OP should use an AV receiver (AVR) as the central hub instead of the TV, as he does now. He can add a PS3 or any other AV source, such as a Blu-ray player or a streaming device directly to the AVR. HDMI connections (which combine audio and video digital signals) are presently the standard way to connect all AV devices. Video signals can be sent from the AVR to the TV by HDMI cable. In that sense, the AVR is the central hub for his system, and the TV is used as a video display monitor, as the speakers are audio monitors. (If needed, he can also connect any 2-channel audio only source directly to the AVR by a variety of ways, digital or analog, depending on the receiver.)

The key to all this is to use HDMI connections, as much as possible. It will be much easier to wire his system this way, and it will be much easier to add AV sources or monitors in the future. I understand if a reader might have trouble understanding the advantages of doing things this way, but we do recommend doing it. In the long run, you'll thank us.

I want to return to the OP's original question about using the Yamaha 2-channel integrated amp instead of an HDMI capable AVR. I hope this explanation makes it clear why a 2-channel amp requires more complex wiring gymnastics, and should be avoided, if a TV and an AV source such as a PS3 is involved.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,965 7 1
#20
Why do you like the option of HDMI? What does that offer?
For example, you can use your PS3 to play SACDs and dsd files direct via the HDMI of a $599 Denon AVR-X3400H. You can't do that with the A-S801.

The Denon AVR has as much output power as the A-S801 when driving only two channels. It has the excellent AK4458 Dac that is as good as the ES9010K2M, and is used for coax and optical as well, wheras the A-S801 uses a lower grade dac.

The A-S801 has the USB Dac feature that is not found in any AVRs, but a $200-$300 external USB Dac/headphone amp is a superior solution that the build in one.
 

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