New System Purchase. Receiver or speakers? Anthem?

[shadyJ]

Hey guys, keep in mind that things like drapes and fabric will do nothing to attenuate bass frequencies. Even big thick bass traps can only affect upper bass frequencies. In order to affect bass frequencies, you need something that is of a thickness of a significant chunk of the frequency wavelength. The wavelength of a 100 Hz cycle is 11 feet. At 50 Hz, it is 22 feet. The only real way of altering the response of bass sound is to move the speaker or move the listening position.

A problem with speakers is that the best position for bass frequencies is rarely the best position for the rest of the spectrum. This is why subwoofers are always a good idea, even with full range speakers with extremely capable bass sections. If you want to solve a wonky bass response, get a couple subs and a measurement and equalization system, find the locations in room that give the overall system the flattest response, and then use the equalizer to tame the frequency response peaks.

 

[MossmanVT]

I am aware but the consensus appears to be to leave what I have and adjust the room. One of the reasons to get a new receiver was to measure and correct but I am being talked out of it. The Anthem has a professional recording mic from what I have seen.

 

[shadyJ]

The Anthem has a calibration microphone. You certainly would not want to use a recording mic to measure a room response!

You will want a way to measure the response, and you certainly don't need an Anthem system to get that. I would be looking at a Umik microphone with REW, or a Dayton Omnimic system, or the XTZ room analyzer.

 

[MossmanVT]

Thank's for the correction about the Anthem mic. My point was that it was a higher quality mic compared to others (ie. Marantz, Yamaha). True?

Last night I played around with speaker position again. Before moving them, they were actually 8 inches from the back wall. I guess that is too close... closer than I thought it was. I moved them closer together and they are now 14 inches from the back wall and angled slightly inward. Moving them closer together gets the right one out of the corner but I typically like them wider apart for movies.

I also lowered the Bass to -4 because just moving them didn't take all the bomminess away. In their current position they do sound much better. The vocals and highs are much clearer and crisp and it sounds much closer to what I want. Good news!! Now that the boominess is gone (by lowering bass to -4 coupled with speaker position) it sounds rather flat in the low end. There is no low end at all but the mid bass is crisp and balanced. I remember I had this problem last year when I played with this.

I am wondering if at this point I should leave this current position (flat response) and add a small sub that I can move around to make up for the low end. Luckily I have a buddy with a sub that he can let me borrow for awhile. The problem I know I will have is balancing the sub. Like I mentioned earlier I had a horrible time adding the sub in a balanced way with this reciever.

Maybe we are on the right track?? Perhaps upgrading the receiver to one with room correction XT32 and adding a sub with the speakers in the current position might solve all. Maybe....

One other thing. With this receiver I absolutely have to have speaker EQ set to large. If I set it to anything else it sounds like a clock radio. I tired shutting it off but the speaker size set to large makes a large difference. I am not sure if that is true of other receivers.

 

[everettT]

For under $100 you can purchase a usb measurement mic and use a powerful free measurement software to understand what issues your having in room.
http://www.roomeqwizard.com
https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

Then you can address them were possible. The software can model speaker placement, multiple eq types, and treatments.

 

[MossmanVT]

Assuming I get a mic and download the software I am not sure what I would do. Other than moving the speakers, which I can't really move much, there are very little adjustments on my receiver.

Since I last posted, I have moved the fronts away from the wall and angled them in. This removed all boomy bas and left things quite flat but things sounded awesome otherwise. I borrowed a friend's polk sub woofer and played around with placement. Things sound awesome now. I forgot how much I had been missing accurate low bass. I have the volume on the sub at about 1/3 and I get a ton of bass. I can't imagine needing a bigger sub in this room.

So... I think I still want to upgrade the receiver. I am leaning towards the Yamaha Aventage A-760 specifically so I can get a sub EQ control. My there option is the Marantz SR 5011. Seems like more bang for my buck with the Yamaha. Not sure there. I am sure everyone has opinions on the matter. I am assuming I'll be happy with 90 watts versus the 110 watts my Kenwood (THX) has now. Yamaha should be cleaner power. My biggest issue with the Kenwood is there are very few adjustments so I am looking forward to room correction and HDMI connections not to mention an on screen overlay.

Second, I am looking into a sub. The HSU brand was recommended on a post earlier and seems to be pretty good. I assume I can get away with a much smaller one rather than the MK2. Maybe the VTF-1 MK3 (250 Watts continuous).

I think the roughly $1k spent should yield a much better sounding system than what I have now.

 

[MrBoat]

I have the similar bass issues you have but it depends on what music I am listening to. The old days we corrected this with an EQ custom tailoring each song sometimes or each album. Just for the heck of it, and this is probably ancient and makes no sense nowadays but, have you tried choking the ports on your towers? The reason I ask this is, the speakers I had before the ones (same amp) I have now are sealed units where these with too much bass at times are ported. The old ones were 150w speakers with 15" woofers and I had no issues with bass. I actually had to run those a bit higher on the EQ and the bass was tighter. I looked up the infinity alpha 50 and those ports look rather large. I may be all wet suggesting this but just a thought.

 

[PENG]

So... I think I still want to upgrade the receiver. I am leaning towards the Yamaha Aventage A-760 specifically so I can get a sub EQ control. My there option is the Marantz SR 5011. Seems like more bang for my buck with the Yamaha. Not sure there. I am sure everyone has opinions on the matter. I am assuming I'll be happy with 90 watts versus the 110 watts my Kenwood (THX) has now. Yamaha should be cleaner power. My biggest issue with the Kenwood is there are very few adjustments so I am looking forward to room correction and HDMI connections not to mention an on screen overlay.

If you really want to get a new AVR, consider the following:

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X3300W-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B01HL8KYAY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817927&sr=1-1&keywords=avr-x3300w

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7010-Surround-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B014MWT9YY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817752&sr=1-1&keywords=marantz+sr7010

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR6010-Surround-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B014MWT4YY/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817752&sr=1-4&keywords=marantz+sr7010

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX4200W-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B012J1DSOC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817828&sr=1-1&keywords=avr-x4200w

All of the above has Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT (can set up 2 subs) that can improve you bass further for sure. I doubt Anthem can do any better.

The X4200w was going for $799 not long ago and may come back for that price if you wait.

 

[MossmanVT]

Since using the subwoofer I borrowed from a friend (100watt Polk) at 1/3 volume the bass is quite good now that the Alphas are not producing low bass. I am thinking of getting a
SB12-NSD. Not a bad a price at the moment, and a new receiver as mentioned.

 

[MossmanVT]

If you really want to get a new AVR, consider the following:

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X3300W-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B01HL8KYAY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817927&sr=1-1&keywords=avr-x3300w

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7010-Surround-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B014MWT9YY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817752&sr=1-1&keywords=marantz+sr7010

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR6010-Surround-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B014MWT4YY/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817752&sr=1-4&keywords=marantz+sr7010

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX4200W-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B012J1DSOC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1479817828&sr=1-1&keywords=avr-x4200w

All of the above has Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT (can set up 2 subs) that can improve you bass further for sure. I doubt Anthem can do any better.

The X4200w was going for $799 not long ago and may come back for that price if you wait.

These prices looks to be the same as Cruthfield. Why not go with them? I personally don't like Denon since I have heard about reliability issues.
I think Marantz and Denon are same parent company but Marantz is more reliable.

Why do you like Marantz over Yamaha? Is it XT32 over YPAO?

 

[KenM10759]

Since using the subwoofer I borrowed from a friend (100watt Polk) at 1/3 volume the bass is quite good now that the Alphas are not producing low bass. I am thinking of getting a
SB12-NSD. Not a bad a price at the moment, and a new receiver as mentioned.

If you can grab one of those at the $400 price, do it because they've been discontinued several years ago in favor of the SB1000 or SB2000 series.

 

[MossmanVT]

If you can grab one of those at the $400 price, do it because they've been discontinued several years ago in favor of the SB1000 or SB2000 series.

Thanks. I saw they were the older model. I was going to go with SB1000 but for $100 less I wonder what I am missing. Seems like a good price. I like the plastic grill rather than fabric..... but my cat prefers the fabric.

 

[KenM10759]

LOL...I know what you mean about cats, we have 3 of them. I don't think that's a plastic grill, it looks identical to the STEEL grill I have on my SB2000.

That appears to be a BETTER sub than the SB1000 as it's the same size cabinet and appears to have the same driver as the SB2000, just a slightly weaker amp. Even that is more powerful than the SB1000's 300 watt amp. Looks like a winner, especially at that price.

 

[PENG]

These prices looks to be the same as Cruthfield. Why not go with them? I personally don't like Denon since I have heard about reliability issues.
I think Marantz and Denon are same parent company but Marantz is more reliable.

Why do you like Marantz over Yamaha? Is it XT32 over YPAO?

Yes it is about XT32 Sub EQ HT. I also don't believe Denon is less reliable than Marantz, I have owned 5 Denon products and also 5 Marantz products and none have any issues over the years. I do believe Yamaha's have better reliability records, just going by hearsay though.

 

[Pogre]

I'll second denon's reliability. I've owned 3 of their avrs and had no issues whatsoever. I really like audyssey too.

 

[MossmanVT]

Yes it is about XT32 Sub EQ HT. I also don't believe Denon is less reliable than Marantz, I have owned 5 Denon products and also 5 Marantz products and none have any issues over the years. I do believe Yamaha's have better reliability records, just going by hearsay though.

I am trying to figure out what YPAO does in terms of the sub. Out of the Yamaha models I am looking at they offer YPAO and YPAO RSC and YPAO RSC mulitpoint.

The Marantz models show Audyssey MultiEQ XT and Multi EQ XT32. Is it only XT32 that adds Sub, I thought XT32 was for dual subs only.

The Sub is most important to me as I HATE over boasted bass. I purchased that sub above for $400. I am waiting to see if any of the receiver prices drop for black Friday. Is Crutchfield the best place to buy from? All on-line prices seem to be similar that I have seen.

 

[KenM10759]

You'll have nice tight bass response from the SB12-NSD if that's what you bought for $400, no worries!

I'm among many who have had no problems buying receivers from Accessories4Less.com, give them a good look.

 

[PENG]

I am trying to figure out what YPAO does in terms of the sub. Out of the Yamaha models I am looking at they offer YPAO and YPAO RSC and YPAO RSC mulitpoint.

The Marantz models show Audyssey MultiEQ XT and Multi EQ XT32. Is it only XT32 that adds Sub, I thought XT32 was for dual subs only.

The Sub is most important to me as I HATE over boasted bass. I purchased that sub above for $400. I am waiting to see if any of the receiver prices drop for black Friday. Is Crutchfield the best place to buy from? All on-line prices seem to be similar that I have seen.

XT 32 has much higher resolution than XT. It is Sub EQ HT that let you eq two subs. Most avr (all Denon and Marantz)that comes with XT32 also comes with sub eq hr but not always.

I think you will be happy with XT32 and sub eq hr.

 

[Pogre]

you're gonna love that sub. I have 2 sb1000's. they're not boomy at all. nice, smooth bass.

 

[MossmanVT]

you're gonna love that sub. I have 2 sb1000's. they're not boomy at all. nice, smooth bass.

My SB12-NSD SVS sub came in Monday. Very nice!! I never realized how tight bass could be. I have it about 1/3 volume and it sounds very well integrated. It's amazing how the sound seems to be coming from my towers. It's exactly as if the towers have been upgraded and the sub is simply a box sitting in the corner. All ported subs I have listened to have problems with fast bass. They always seemed to get confused and sound like they are running away with reverberations when there is quick bass notes. This sub doesn't do that. Listening to Phantom of the Opera yesterday the deep bass was fast and very accurate. It was quite amazing. Also, my EDM music sounded fantastic, quick, accurate bass that wasn't a distraction for all the other tones like most subs.

I also played the beginning of Star Trek Into Darkness to see how it handled movies. I have no complaints even at lower volumes (don't want to bother my neighbors too much) but I can see how a ported might do better for movies if shaking the room is your goal. I did turn up the sub to 3/4 and it did shake things quite a bit so I am happy. Great decision to get this sub. Especially for $400!!

What I find most shocking is I am now very happy listening at lower volume levels. In the past my system always sounded flat and lifeless at low volume levels. I had to crank it up for it to sound better and I had always thought it was my receiver and the fact that it is 110 watts driving big tower speakers. I figured that was the way it was. I am now very happy at lower volumes and the sound is full and balanced.

I still want to upgrade the receiver simply to get HDMI connections (to clean up the mess of cables) and 4k pass through ability. The other thing is, a sub eq would be nice. I can tell there are some sub freqs. that are slightly louder than others. My receiver has little to no adjustment on the sub.