New System Purchase. Receiver or speakers? Anthem?

[MossmanVT]

Hi All,

First post. My system is rather old and looking to upgrade. I've been doing a lot of research... need help.

Current system. Infiniti Alpha 50 (full surround, and center channel, larger center channel).
Kenwood THX certified receiver. I believe this was the last high power (ie. good) receivers they built).

I live in a condo and can play at reasonably loud levels. Not interested in subwoofer.

First question.. upgrade speakers or receiver first? I was thinking receiver.
I was leaning towards Anthem 520. I have no desire to ever go above 5.1 and more interested in sound quality and room correction. I was also looking at Marantz.. maybe Yamaha.

So will actually hear a noticeable change if I simply upgrade to Athem with my speakers? Should I just stick with a lesser receiver since my speakers aren't the best.... although I know there are far worse out there. Looking to spend $1k to $1.5k.. where to start. Sound quality.. mostly music, is top priority. I have been reading and looking for over a year. Can any experts point me in the right direction. At least Crutchfield sells Anthem now!!

 

[shadyJ]

I would only upgrade the receiver if you want to be able to handle more modern connectivity and modern codecs. The Anthem amp is unlikely to sound better than your Kenwood, unless your Kenwood is broken. Something with modern room correction might help you. I would be looking at a receiver with Audyssey, preferably in the XT or XT32 variety. I would be looking at Denon or Marantz or Yamaha.

 

[MossmanVT]

Thanks for the reply. I am shocked that the Anthem by default wouldn't sound better than my 15 year old amp. I have done a lot of reading about Audyssey as compared to Anthem ARC. ARC seems it could have an advantage although using an external windows computer is a pain since I have a mac.

I like the idea of more modern connectivity but it's a plus not a requirement. I have Apple TV for streaming so I don't need all the bells and whistles either. One reason I was drawn to Athem for it's no frills best sound. I also was looking at Marantz and Yamaha.

So if my only need was to upgrade to a more richer sharper sound I start where? Speakers? Do I go for bookshelf speakers. Kinda lost. My room does have hardwood, 9 foot ceilings.. quite large room open to kitchen and dining. It's probably about 600 square feet total. I guess I thought my current speakers would sound much better with a new amp and room correction. Hmmmm.

 

[shadyJ]

The differences in sound between amplifiers is inconsequential compared to the difference that the speakers make, unless one of the amps is really bad. You want a better sound, you will have to shell out money for some very good speakers. The Infinity Alphas are a good speaker, and it will take some money to significantly top those. I would be looking at some of the middle lines from Revel or RBH, Philharmonic, Ascend Sierra 2s, or Kef Reference. If looks are not a big deal, also look at some JBL LSR6332 monitors or Emotiva Stealth 8s. I would be looking at a couple good subs too, and proper subwoofer placement. Look into a pair of Hsu ULS-15 mk2s and also something that can measure and EQ the subs.

What is more is your room sounds like it could be very acoustically lively with all those hard surfaces, and if there is no way to tame the acoustics in there, you might as well just keep what you have, because the room might put a limit on how good the sound can get in there.

 

[PENG]

You can get noticeably better sound quality if you spend the $1,500 on upgrading the front left/right speakers. If you must upgrade your receiver, try to get a Yamaha, Denon or Marantz for better bangs for the bucks.

Regarding Audyssey, XT32 is much preferred. It quickly and easily flattened the bass response (25-200Hz) for me and I doubt Anthem ARC can do much better based on curves that I have seen published by others. Apparently some people didn't like what Audyssey did to the higher frequencies. I don't know why, but if you select Audyssey reference, I think you shouldn't have any issues. If you eventually get a sub, then you can select Audyssey bypass L/R, then set the L/R speakers to small with crossover at 80 Hz or higher so that only the sub will be EQ'ed.

 

[KenM10759]

I'll get grief from the more experienced folk here, but I'll share my experience just the same. First and foremost it is absolutely true that the most profound improvement path is found in speakers.

That said, I simply liked the way an Anthem MRX710 receiver sounded with my speakers better than my Denon AVR1912. It couldn't have been the ARC over the basic Audyssey of the Denon because I couldn't get the ARC software working right on a (at that time) Windows 8 computer. It might have been just that the Anthem was playing at a louder volume, because it certainly had that capacity. I ended up with a bargain on the NAD T758 that I have (for now), but overall I just plain liked the Anthem and will probably get one someday. My NAD sounds really about the same as my Denon, it just has a couple things it does that the Denon didn't and I like those features. The price was right too, as the MRX710 would have cost me almost 3x as much.

Denon/Marantz makes very good receivers and they integrate superbly with Audyssey MultEQ XT32. I have nothing bad to say about them, and they are a tremendous value for the money spent. I just thought the Anthem sounded a wee be different, a bit better....to ME. It wouldn't be the leap in sound quality that I took getting better speakers, but it was there.

 

[mtrycrafts]

What is it you are lacking right now?
Yes, speakers make the most difference in sound, your room's acoustics is just as important.
Also, chasing a rainbow may be very expensive with nothing really at the end of it.

 

[MossmanVT]

Just got home from work and I have all these great responses. Thanks!!!

This gives me a lot to think about for sure. I guess I was focusing on the receiver because it is old and has no HDMI and no room correction. I can live without the HDMI but eventually I will get a new TV and will want to future proof the switching. The wifi, and apple stuff is nice but I have Apple TV for that so I don't need it.

I used to have a Velodyne sub connected but the thing annoyed the hell out of me quite frankly I found that the sub was either all on or all off. I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the gain on the receiver and the crossover on the sub and the volume. I moved it around the room.. etc. I found I had it turned down so low that when I looked in the back it wasn't even on 95% of the time. It was so low that it just stayed in idle mode unless I cranked it. If I cranked the volume it sounded ok but I don't listen to music that loud most of the time. I mostly listen to it loud but not crazy loud. So when the internal amp blew up I just gave up the sub. My buddy has it, changed the amp and loves that his pictures on the wall shake. That's not what I am after. I see the purpose of a sub and I do miss it sometimes (movies for sure) but I absolutely hate when the bass is so damn boomy. Drives me nuts and there is no way to smoothly integrate it with my Kenwood..... that I found.

So I was focusing on room correction and stumbled onto Athem. I have a local dealer actually. I was doing lots of reading about ARC being the best and the clean sound and power of the Anthem. If I go Anthem it will be the MRX 520 so I will be stuck with 5.1 which is perfectly fine by me...... but...... last year I did bi-amp (not bi-wire) my speakers by using my surround channels. The speakers sounded much better. Obviously I didn't leave them that way because I lose my surrounds. If I go Anthem MRX 520 I can't bi-amp and I thought that might be ok since the amps are better. Yes, No??

I spent today looking at Marantz SR 5011 or 6010.. also looking at Yamaha RX-A860. Cheaper than Anthem and I would be able to bi-amp and still have 5.1. The other plus is no windows laptop to run ARC. Somehow I keep thinking I am buying a lesser sounding unit.. haha. Maybe I believe the marketing too much. You do get more for your money with Marantz and Yamaha. I'll have to check out the NAD unit mentioned above since it's in the same price range. They have Audyssey XT32 which is what I was after if I don't go Anthem.

What is my goal??? I don't want to keep chasing the perfect sound. I know that gets out of hand. I guess I am after better sound. Better detail more clarity and BALANCED. My system now seems to sound terrible at low volumes. I have to crank it for it to sound "good" but I don't want to be forced to listen to it at that volume. To give you an example of what I am trying to achieve. I was at a friends house many years ago. They simply had a small stereo (don't remember the name) with tiny little speakers. I forget he brand. It was all neatly placed in the corner of the room. The sound was very clear, detailed and could be heard across the room with ease at a very low volume. The sound travelled and filled the space and the speakers were tiny. I don't get that with my system. I left thinking why doesn't my big system sound that detailed. It tends to sound loud and it's mediocre at low to mid volumes.

My current receiver has active EQ (music, movie.. etc). I used it a few times. It sounded a little better. I leave it off now. I also have the THX button which I never use. Doesn't do much unless you crank the thing. haha. Again, same problem.

I was happy to hear my Infiniti Alpha 50's are at least decent. I thought they were pretty low end.. well I knew there was worse. I will eventually get new speakers. Was looking at B&O but there are a lot of other options listed above.

Again thanks for the support. This is not an easy decision by any means.

 

[shadyJ]

I would skip B&O. There are a lot of things to look at in improving your sound before going out and buying new stuff. I would make sure the speaker placement is optimal vs your listening position. I would take a measurement of the room acoustics: the room may well be the real problem here. If it is very lively it can wash out sound and obscure detail. There are acoustic room treatments that can be used to damp acoustic reflections.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I used to have a Velodyne sub connected but the thing annoyed the hell out of me quite frankly I found that the sub was either all on or all off. I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the gain on the receiver and the crossover on the sub and the volume. I moved it around the room.. etc. I found I had it turned down so low that when I looked in the back it wasn't even on 95% of the time. It was so low that it just stayed in idle mode unless I cranked it. If I cranked the volume it sounded ok but I don't listen to music that loud most of the time. I mostly listen to it loud but not crazy loud. So when the internal amp blew up I just gave up the sub. My buddy has it, changed the amp and loves that his pictures on the wall shake. That's not what I am after. I see the purpose of a sub and I do miss it sometimes (movies for sure) but I absolutely hate when the bass is so damn boomy. Drives me nuts and there is no way to smoothly integrate it with my Kenwood..... that I found.

...

What is my goal??? I don't want to keep chasing the perfect sound. I know that gets out of hand. I guess I am after better sound. Better detail more clarity and BALANCED. My system now seems to sound terrible at low volumes. I have to crank it for it to sound "good" but I don't want to be forced to listen to it at that volume. To give you an example of what I am trying to achieve. I was at a friends house many years ago. They simply had a small stereo (don't remember the name) with tiny little speakers. I forget he brand. It was all neatly placed in the corner of the room. The sound was very clear, detailed and could be heard across the room with ease at a very low volume. The sound travelled and filled the space and the speakers were tiny. I don't get that with my system. I left thinking why doesn't my big system sound that detailed. It tends to sound loud and it's mediocre at low to mid volumes.

...

It sounds like you have a room acoustic issue but hard to tell without being there.
Your sub is boomy because at certain frequencies it resonates where you are listening, way too loud and booms. You need extensive measurements and EQ that may not be taken care of by the internal receiver EQ and may or may not be solved with a new receiver.
Unfortunately the room needs to be properly measure at a location where you are listening mostly.

 

[KenM10759]

I agree on skipping over B&O, not a lotta bang for the big buck in that stuff. The Anthem MRX520 is a nice unit and I really like the ARC (now ARC2) software. Bi-Amp? Do some serious reading around here about that. You aren't going to benefit from it in all likelihood.

Room treatments rule! It's the next thing I do too. This really came to light for me recently when I helped my cousin and her husband select a new 2-channel system and installed it. They do not have a room that is professionally tailored to acoustics. They don't need one, they got it quite by accident. Installed the Totem Sttaf speakers along a wall that was lined with full bookshelves, opposite a wall with a large window that had nice draperies. When we lit up the system I was absolutely floored! Incredible sound, not a hint of reflected sound waves crashing into each other. I don't know how, but the bass coming out of those speakers (no sub in the house anywhere) was just beautiful. That's what good room treatment can do.

 

[MossmanVT]

I understand what you guys are staying... but I don't like it. I'd rather spend $1000, run around with a microphone, hit a button and have perfect sound.

So how do I start going about measuring my room? I did a google search and there is software. I guess I need a mic as well.

 

[Pogre]

even a throw rug or 2 in front of your speakers. room acoustics are a bigger factor than most folks realize. your room does sound pretty lively and could well be a considerable factor.

you're doing the right thing by asking questions and taking your time. it is indeed easy to get sucked into the marketing. I think either the Marantz or the Yamaha are awesome receivers and believe you'd be happy with either. I prefer audyssey so I'd go with marantz. I recently got a denon with audyssey xt and it did an amazing job of smoothing out my system. XT32 is even better.

research bi amping. it's not what it's cut out to be unless you... well, research it.

I think playing with positioning and maybe investing in a throw rug or 2 could be a way to troubleshoot without breaking the bank. you seem to be carefully considering your options, which is good. with a little help from some of the more seasoned members here I'm sure we'll get you sorted out.

 

[MossmanVT]

I actually have a huge area rug 12 by 14 maybe in the center of the room. It isn't directly in front of the speakers but about 2 feet from the rug. The speakers are too close to the walls behind. I know that. I had read somewhere they need to be 2 feet from the back wall and that would be crazy in my room. The right speaker is in a corner.... well sorta a corner. One all in my place is a rounded wall. Yes, rounded... I even had to buy flexible base molding when I replaced it. So the right speaker is in a 45 degree type of corner.

I have the speakers mounted on their feet (rounded end of the feet) for hardwood since the speaker is sitting on the hardwood. The system did sound better in my last apartment which was smaller and carpeted.

 

[Pogre]

do you have windows in the room? curtains help a lot. I don't know much about room treatments. I'm lucky enough to not really need it with carpeted floors and drapes.

*edit: is it possible to move your speakers to a more optimal position? not permanently, just to check it out. I have mine about15" from the wall behind them and that seems to be fine. I know 2 feet is usually recommended and not always possible, but you definitley don't want to be right up against the wall. having one in the corner will give you more boomy base too..

 

[MossmanVT]

I just put in Hunter Douglas Blinds. They are sheer fabric type. No drapes though so the window frames are exposed. There is a door opposite the main speakers but I also put a blind on that but the door is not fully covered.

I am listening to music now. Stereo mode.... which I normally don't use. Stereo mode causes too much boomy bass unless I keep the volume low. Neo Music evens things out because it doesn't use so much bass on the front channels.

 

[Pogre]

I edited in some more stuff in my last post whIle you were typing yours. addressed your boomy bass.

 

[MossmanVT]

Thanks. One thing I failed to mention. I am in a concrete 8 story building. The floor is solid concrete over steel... 1 foot I believe. Also, the ceiling is hung on metal channels to be flexible and the walls give if I push on them this is to stop sound transmission to the adjacent units. It works.. I can play my music loud. I wonder if the hard concrete under hardwood floors is hurting me here.

I"ll try moving speakers and perhaps putting foam under the speakers instead of using the feet.

 

[Pogre]

I'm coming to the end of my useful knowledge here. lol. just hang tight and wait for some more replies. there are others with a lot more knowledge than I. you came to the right place.

 

[KenM10759]

I understand what you guys are staying... but I don't like it. I'd rather spend $1000, run around with a microphone, hit a button and have perfect sound.

So how do I start going about measuring my room? I did a google search and there is software. I guess I need a mic as well.

You're aware that an Anthem, Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha receiver comes with the calibration microphone, right? The Anthem actually includes a tripod stand for it too!