New system, need advice

M

Millear

Enthusiast
I'm working on setting up a 5.1.2 system in my basement. This is what I'm thinking so far but I have a couple questions...
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all my speakers are in wall/ceiling. RC85I for front and rear speakers, RC80I for Dolby ceiling speakers and VS255CRT for center.

I am wondering first of all what height I should mount my rear speakers on the wall. I have heard about 2' above head level when sitting? The ceiling height is about 7' 4". Is having them near the ceiling fine or should they be closer to hear height?

Also, are my rear speakers far enough apart? Im not sure if they should match my fronts or not. I think they work well for main seating position which would be on the couch center with the tv, but if someone was sitting on the far end of the couch they would be outside the speakers. Just wondering if that is just something I will have to deal with when dealing with a longer couch. Based on studs I could move them outwards another 16" or so so the were more like this.... (My couch is right up against the wall btw)
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Those are my main concerns but any other feedback would be helpful, I'm very new at this. My tv and front speakers are already in and can't move so the only ones that could be adjusted are the ceilings and the rears.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Hmm... this might be a good one for @William Lemmerhirt to tackle. I think you need to move the rear left more to the left unless you're just concerned about 1 seat only. However, in walls and Atmos are not my strong suits so you should wait for a better reply.

Hey! What kind of app are you using to make those layouts?
 
M

Millear

Enthusiast
Hmm... this might be a good one for @William Lemmerhirt to tackle. I think you need to move the rear left more to the left unless you're just concerned about 1 seat only. However, in walls and Atmos are not my strong suits so you should wait for a better reply.

Hey! What kind of app are you using to make those layouts?

So it's not a big deal if my rear left is offset from all the other speakers?
And it's called Rooms. I was trying to do an accurate layout and it's the first one I found. It's ok but I'm sure there are better ones, I just didn't look too hard.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Field Marshall
Personally I’d move the rear speakers fully to the side walls, aimed at the seating. IMO there is nothing more distracting than “near field” surround speakers because are easily localized and thus draw attention to themselves.

IMO the seating is too far back. I like to be sitting 10-12 ft. from the screen. If you do that, you could get away with your proposed rear locations.

With such a low ceiling, I’d go with the height at least 6 ft up. Speakers above ear level should be inverted.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
So it's not a big deal if my rear left is offset from all the other speakers?
And it's called Rooms. I was trying to do an accurate layout and it's the first one I found. It's ok but I'm sure there are better ones, I just didn't look too hard.
Yes, as long as you run any setup routine you have it'll adjust for volume levels and distances so the timing is right. I'll refer to Wayne above for the rest.

Okay, cool. I've never found one so that one is better than what I have! I'll look for it later. Thanks!
 
tmurnin

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
In a 5 channel system, I’d have side surrounds mounted at ear height, not rears. If you’re gonna do the in-ceiling Atmos, why not do 4 instead of 2 since you appear to have the room? Agree with Wayne about moving the couch forward as well.

also, is the large black rectangle at the front a sub? Are you placing it directly under the left channel speaker, or is that just notional?
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Spartan
If it was me I would move the in-ceiling speakers out more and back toward the couch but still in front of the couch. You can Aim the Swiveling Tweeter toward the seating area. The couch I would move off the rear wall at least a foot or more.
 
Last edited:
M

Millear

Enthusiast
Personally I’d move the rear speakers fully to the side walls, aimed at the seating. IMO there is nothing more distracting than “near field” surround speakers because are easily localized and thus draw attention to themselves.

IMO the seating is too far back. I like to be sitting 10-12 ft. from the screen. If you do that, you could get away with your proposed rear locations.

With such a low ceiling, I’d go with the height at least 6 ft up. Speakers above ear level should be inverted.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
The wall to the right of the couch will be a bookshelf so I don't have the option of going in the sidewalls, just behind the couch. And I don't have the option of pulling the couch off the wall. I know it's not ideal, I'm just trying to get the best with what I have. So would you still mount the rears 6' up if they are roght against the couch? And should I worry about moving the rear left out more, or just leave it in line with the fronts?
 
M

Millear

Enthusiast
In a 5 channel system, I’d have side surrounds mounted at ear height, not rears. If you’re gonna do the in-ceiling Atmos, why not do 4 instead of 2 since you appear to have the room? Agree with Wayne about moving the couch forward as well.

also, is the large black rectangle at the front a sub? Are you placing it directly under the left channel speaker, or is that just notional?
I don't really have an option for side surrounds do I? I need the couch against the wall and side walls aren't an option for speakers. I need to mount them behind the couch somewhere. And yes the sub will roughly be under my left front speaker.
 
M

Millear

Enthusiast
Personally I’d move the rear speakers fully to the side walls, aimed at the seating. IMO there is nothing more distracting than “near field” surround speakers because are easily localized and thus draw attention to themselves.

IMO the seating is too far back. I like to be sitting 10-12 ft. from the screen. If you do that, you could get away with your proposed rear locations.

With such a low ceiling, I’d go with the height at least 6 ft up. Speakers above ear level should be inverted.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Unfortunately I don't have the option of moving the couch off the wall. It would awkwardly break up the room. And the side wall to the right of the couch is a bookshelf so that won't work. Could I still get away with my rear speakers 6' up if they are directly behind the couch?
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Spartan
I don't really have an option for side surrounds do I? I need the couch against the wall and side walls aren't an option for speakers. I need to mount them behind the couch somewhere.
I'm liking 4 in-ceiling in your install. I think you'll get a better Surround Sound experience with the Couch right up against the wall. JMO
 
M

Millear

Enthusiast
I'm liking 4 in-ceiling in your install. I think you'll get a better Surround Sound experience with the Couch right up against the wall. JMO
So what would placement look like with 4 ceiling speakers? Would it still be 5.1.2?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Sounds to me like you’re basically already set for where you can go. Without moving the couch, and no sidewall option, I’d just go with where you have them marked. I would ordinarily recommend NOT going with 6’ surround height for an Atmos installation, and especially with a ceiling height of 7’-4”. But, since you won’t have any rear height speakers the added height of the surrounds might help a few things. Like NOT hotspotting, as Wayne said(hi Wayne!), which is very annoying. Clearance over other viewers heads(which will be much less important with the speakers coming from the back of the room). And it could tie them a little more to the top fronts, with the added elevation. I would keep the surrounds between 4.5-5’ personally.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Spartan
So what would placement look like with 4 ceiling speakers? Would it still be 5.1.2?
Like I stated before. I would move the in-ceiling a little further apart and about 2'-3' infront of the couch aim the Tweeter to the Listening Position. Then 2 more In-ceilings over the couch 1' within the Mains. 7.1
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
So what would placement look like with 4 ceiling speakers? Would it still be 5.1.2?
It might be 5.1.2 but Atmos would suffer if the surrounds and Tops are on the same plane.
 
M

Millear

Enthusiast
Sounds to me like you’re basically already set for where you can go. Without moving the couch, and no sidewall option, I’d just go with where you have them marked. I would ordinarily recommend NOT going with 6’ surround height for an Atmos installation, and especially with a ceiling height of 7’-4”. But, since you won’t have any rear height speakers the added height of the surrounds might help a few things. Like NOT hotspotting, as Wayne said(hi Wayne!), which is very annoying. Clearance over other viewers heads(which will be much less important with the speakers coming from the back of the room). And it could tie them a little more to the top fronts, with the added elevation. I would keep the surrounds between 4.5-5’ personally.
Ok thanks a lot. Last questions. Do I measure the height to Center of my speaker? Or to the tweeter? And do I invert my surround speakers or no?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Ok thanks a lot. Last questions. Do I measure the height to Center of my speaker? Or to the tweeter? And do I invert my surround speakers or no?
I probably wouldn’t invert them, and I personally measure to the tweeter.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Field Marshall
The wall to the right of the couch will be a bookshelf so I don't have the option of going in the sidewalls, just behind the couch.
Any reason why you couldn’t just put that speaker in the bookshelf? Locating the rears far-to-the-sides is your best option, IMO, so you really should try to figure out a way to make it work. Your other positions are going to put you dealing with the near-field “hot spot” problem that has been mentioned.


And do I invert my surround speakers or no?
Speakers placed up high should be inverted for the same reasons floor speakers are positioned up-right: It puts the tweeter closer to ear level, and further from boundaries, while the woofer is closer to boundaries, which enhances bass output.

That said, if you’re stuck with the “near field” placement I’d go ahead and put them in the traditional orientation. That will put the tweeter further from ear-level, which will help “de-localize” the speakers.

BTW, I’ve had to deal with too-close surrounds before, so I can give some tips on dealing with the localization problem, if you end up going that route.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
M

Millear

Enthusiast
Any reason why you couldn’t just put that speaker in the bookshelf? Locating the rears far-to-the-sides is your best option, IMO, so you really should try to figure out a way to make it work. Your other positions are going to put you dealing with the near-field “hot spot” problem that has been mentioned.



Speakers placed up high should be inverted for the same reasons floor speakers are positioned up-right: It puts the tweeter closer to ear level, and further from boundaries, while the woofer is closer to boundaries, which enhances bass output.

That said, if you’re stuck with the “near field” placement I’d go ahead and put them in the traditional orientation. That will put the tweeter further from ear-level, which will help “de-localize” the speakers.

BTW, I’ve had to deal with too-close surrounds before, so I can give some tips on dealing with the localization problem, if you end up going that route.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Hey Wayne, my in wall speaker won't fit in the bookshelf. I know its not ideal, but im going to goal with the surrounds behind the couch, so any tips for the localization problem would be greatly appreciated!
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Field Marshall
Is the bookshelf built-in?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 

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