New speakers!

[GranteedEV]

Yeah, I considered some used monitor 7 v6 actually. The guy selling em on kijiji was hyping them up like crazy, it was kind of amusing. I told him at the time how at that ~800-900 dollar price point I was leaning towards some blemish section Axiom M60s especially with the free shipping. The guy went on an email tirade of how much better paradigm is (pulled the "axioms are harsh and paradigms are just right and perfeclly warm and detailed and the only reason I'm upgrading is because I have Studio 60s now" and how these cost him like 1200 dollars or something bla bla bla. ) I didn't completely discount the praise he had for the monitor 7s, but i'm an eternal pessimist lol, and I don't like the idea of going to a seller's house to do a listening test.

So I went to a nearby store (soundsaround) and asked to listen to some monitor 7s and i was just unimpressed for some reason. They were way tiny in terms of looks (plus that tweeter was too low) so I was already kind of skeptical, but when I heard them all I could think was "man, more than the speakers, I want that demo CD they got".

That same day, the guy showed me some monitor 11s, as well as a pair of totem arros. The totem arros blew everything away, by far. The little speakers were amazing. Unfortunately the salesmen started advertising how canadian they are and how the crossovers aren't made on PCB..."they're hand made" bla blah it really iritated me because, well, I don't care if it's PCB or not, in my ideal world all speakers have active crossovers anyways. All I care is how a speaker sounds and looks.. and the monitor 7s just weren't impressive to me. the totems were.. a tad bit out of my budget, and I noticed they were hooked up to dedicated separates, so when I went home, I found these were 4 ohm speakers, not something I too comfortably want to pair with my receiver, although I'm sure it can handle it just fine.

At that point I decided I don't like dealing with people trying to sell me stuff, so I decided internet direct was the choice for me. Well right when I was about to pull the trigger on the axiom m60s I also started to consider the EMP e5tis which audioholics had a review for..

I live in Calgary, and EMP doesn't ship to Canada(maybe they do under special request, but....) whereas Axiom ships for free to Calgary. Seemed like an obvious choice. So I went with the more difficult one because hey, I haven't heard either, both are supposed to sound great, but one looks better and had cheaper matching center and surrounds. But I don't want the e5tis if the e55tis are only 800 dollars. Sigh.

So I ordered via paypal to a border storage company in sweetgrass montana, drove down there, paid like 200 dollars worth of customs and tax at the border (still about what i'd have paid for the axioms) and brought em home.

I don't mean to put you down or anything or start a comparision or anything. Just thought I'd tell you my story because two months ago i was this close to pulling the trigger on a pair of monitor 7s. Instead I got something I ultimately liked the sound and looks of better, and brand new, for the price of used monitor 7s give or take. The only real point of my post is, in my own personal opinion, internet direct ain't bad at all. I may someday buy from a B&M dealership in the future. I may someday buy used speakers. But in my situation, neither of those options won me over.

Oh, and plus, Audioholics didn't have a review of the Paradigms... who buys a speaker based on "advertisement" reviews?

 

[Cygnus]

I got a chance to really demo the system last night after running some more wire for my surrounds, and this system is AWESOME! My previous gripes about the Monitor 7's were because I wasn't used to hearing that type of sound in my room.

I listened to music at average levels and am blown away at the clarity of the system. I then threw on the 5.1 mix of Muse's "The Resistance" (which - as far as vocals go - is a terrible mix, every song has a different center channel level it seems. Drives me mad) but that aside, the system sounded incredible! Watched a movie a bit last night too (Kill Bill Vol. 2, and a bit of Vol. 1) and was again surprised at how good the whole thing sounded to my ears. Crystal clear!

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm going to take some pictures tonight and put them up in the Member Systems Gallery, and you guys can see what the room looks like and give suggestions from there.

Also! I haven't put any stands on the speakers yet as I don't understand how to. The holes in the bottoms of the speakers are a lot smaller than the screws they come with. Just screw them in there? I would think that they would have already made the holes fit the screw sizes though...?

Those holes are small, because they are what are called "pilot holes" They are there to show where the screws are supposed to go. And, they help avoid tearing the material as the scews go in. If the holes were as wide as the screws, there would nothing for them to grip and they would just fall out. So, grab a screwdriver and drive 'em in! Don't forget the feet though...

 

[GO-NAD!]

I got a chance to really demo the system last night after running some more wire for my surrounds, and this system is AWESOME! My previous gripes about the Monitor 7's were because I wasn't used to hearing that type of sound in my room.

I listened to music at average levels and am blown away at the clarity of the system. I then threw on the 5.1 mix of Muse's "The Resistance" (which - as far as vocals go - is a terrible mix, every song has a different center channel level it seems. Drives me mad) but that aside, the system sounded incredible! Watched a movie a bit last night too (Kill Bill Vol. 2, and a bit of Vol. 1) and was again surprised at how good the whole thing sounded to my ears. Crystal clear!

Glad you're happy with them! A good idea is to get a test tone disc and and SPL meter. You can pinpoint the problem frequencies, rather than guessing, and address them. You might try toeing the speakers outwards a bit and also follow some of KEW's suggestions to help cure the brightness.

 

[KEW]

Those holes are small, because they are what are called "pilot holes" They are there to show where the screws are supposed to go. And, they help avoid tearing the material as the scews go in. If the holes were as wide as the screws, there would nothing for them to grip and they would just fall out. So, grab a screwdriver and drive 'em in! Don't forget the feet though...

Alternately, a lot of people use "blue-tack" putty from the office supply store to make the connection with the stands without marring the bottom of the speakers.

 

[GO-NAD!]

....I don't mean to put you down or anything or start a comparision or anything....

Then why are you raining on his parade?

 

[Cygnus]

Alternately, a lot of people use "blue-tack" putty from the office supply store to make the connection with the stands without marring the bottom of the speakers.

The blue tack would not be as strong a connection though, no? I shall look into this stand deal when I get home. I put the rubber sticky stands on the rears last night though

 

[KEW]

The blue tack would not be as strong a connection though, no? I shall look into this stand deal when I get home. I put the rubber sticky stands on the rears last night though

The screws make for a very rigid and strong mechanical connection.
The putty is a "plastic" connection.

Done properly, neither should allow any vibration between the speaker and the stand and there should be no risk of the speaker vibrating off of the stand.

I don't mean to recommend one over the other, just adding another option.

If you filled your stands with sand, you would want the mechanical coupling afforded by the screws.

If a speaker/stand got knocked over, the blue putty would absorb some of the energy of impact as it sheared off; however, there are too many variables in what it hits and where the impact is (or if the "freed" speaker could slide/bounce into something) to consider this a compelling case for blue putty. Hopefully this will never happen, but if you have dogs or kids...

Those are the only factors I can think of.

Glad you are enjoying those speakers! I think the Monitor series is pretty sweet.

Cheers,
Kurt

 

[Cygnus]

The screws make for a very rigid and strong mechanical connection.

Glad you are enjoying those speakers! I think the Monitor series is pretty sweet.

Cheers,
Kurt

I think I'll just use the screws, as it's not like I'm going to be looking at the bottom of the towers too often, with them being on the floor and all

Yeah, I have a very decent setup in my opinion for my needs, right now. Totally happy!

Also, I was wondering what the sensitivity of the speakers are all about? The sensitivity is as follows:

Monitor 7 - Room / Anechoic: 94 dB / 91 dB
CC-190 - Room / Anechoic 93 dB / 90 dB
Monitor Mini - Room / Anechoic: 92 dB / 89 dB

What's the difference between room and anechoic? I would guess that the anechoic is louder because it's such a small area, but why would they put that up on the website? Should these levels have some sort of guide as to how different the levels are between each set, and the center on the receiver?

For example, should they be set like this:
FL/FR: 0
Center: +1
Rear: +2
?

 

[zieglj01]

I got a chance to really demo the system last night after running some more wire for my surrounds, and this system is AWESOME! My previous gripes about the Monitor 7's were because I wasn't used to hearing that type of sound in my room.

I listened to music at average levels and am blown away at the clarity of the system. I then threw on the 5.1 mix of Muse's "The Resistance" (which - as far as vocals go - is a terrible mix, every song has a different center channel level it seems. Drives me mad) but that aside, the system sounded incredible! Watched a movie a bit last night too (Kill Bill Vol. 2, and a bit of Vol. 1) and was again surprised at how good the whole thing sounded to my ears. Crystal clear!

This is what it's all about - enjoying your purchase. When you are use to
hearing something different - sometimes you have to relax and listen for
a while. The Monitor series are not voiced to jump out at you.

 

[GranteedEV]

What's the difference between room and anechoic? I would guess that the anechoic is louder because it's such a small area, but why would they put that up on the website? Should these levels have some sort of guide as to how different the levels are between each set, and the center on the receiver?

For example, should they be set like this:
FL/FR: 0
Center: +1
Rear: +2

That's probably going to be a close indicator, although the only way to really set speaker levels is with a meter or with auto-calibration, because it's not factoring in distance from the speaker (Sensitivity is measured db with 2.83 volts RMS at 1 meter)

Now for the anechoic, it's more useful to compare with other anechoic ratings because it takes away room gain from the equation of "how loud is a speaker with a given power driving it"

On the other hand, in-room might give you a better indication of what to expect, but it's not accurate because it's not actually measured in your room - it's just assuming a +3 room gain which is probably average for a medium sized, moderately treated room.

 

[KEW]

Also, I was wondering what the sensitivity of the speakers are all about? The sensitivity is as follows:

Monitor 7 - Room / Anechoic: 94 dB / 91 dB
CC-190 - Room / Anechoic 93 dB / 90 dB
Monitor Mini - Room / Anechoic: 92 dB / 89 dB

What's the difference between room and anechoic? I would guess that the anechoic is louder because it's such a small area, but why would they put that up on the website? Should these levels have some sort of guide as to how different the levels are between each set, and the center on the receiver?

For example, should they be set like this:
FL/FR: 0
Center: +1
Rear: +2
?

Paradigm is pretty good with their specifications.
The sensitivity is the sound pressure at 1 meter with 1 watt of power (I think at 1Khz).
This is best measured in an anechoic chamber to assure a consistent specification. However, companies started taking advantage that a speaker is ~3dB more efficient in a typical room and thus, they would post a higher efficiency rating. Often they would not specify if it was room or anechoic. Paradigm gives it to you both ways so you can compare this specification with another speaker manufacturer's.
There are calculations using the efficiency of the speaker to determine how many watts you need to drive it to a certain volume at your seating position.

Your approach to setting the levels makes intuitive sense, and probably wouldn't hurt to start there, but I'm a 2 channel music only guy, so best to wait for a HT guy.

 

[3db]

I'm happy to hear that your not regretting your purchase. Experiment with placement as well pulling them further out of the room and away from the walls as an example. Rooms have agreat affect on how speakers sound.

 

[Cygnus]

I tried hooking up one of my old Pioneers last night to compare, and the Pioneer had more mids than the Paradigm, by far, but overall the Paradigm sounded a lot better. I'd also ran the system in 5 Channel stereo and noticed that I liked the sound better when it was mixed with the Mini Monitors, because they have more mid's than the Monitor 7's. Is this because the Mini monitors have bigger drivers? I wonder if I should try out the Monitor 9's, even though they are really expensive for me.

 

[zieglj01]

I have owned the monitor line and with all due respect - I find that they
lack in midrange resolution. I am not trying to get you to spend a lot of
money - however, I believe you will have to leave the monitor line to get
more of the midrange you are looking for.

 

[Cygnus]

I have owned the monitor line and with all due respect - I find that they
lack in midrange resolution. I am not trying to get you to spend a lot of
money - however, I believe you will have to leave the monitor line to get
more of the midrange you are looking for.

I agree, although this whole speaker buying thing is becoming a pain, since I'm not/can't drive.

 

[zieglj01]

Can you get your money back or do you have to exchange them. A lot of
people find succes shopping on line - going with companies that have a 30
day return policy. The place where you bought your speakers - is there
another option besides Romancas and Paradigm?

 

[Cygnus]

I could return them and get my money back, yes, but I'd like to listen just a bit more.

 

[zieglj01]

I could return them and get my money back, yes, but I'd like to listen just a bit more.

Spend more time with them and don't rush your decision and remember
the return dead line.

 

[KEW]

I tried hooking up one of my old Pioneers last night to compare, and the Pioneer had more mids than the Paradigm, by far, but overall the Paradigm sounded a lot better. I'd also ran the system in 5 Channel stereo and noticed that I liked the sound better when it was mixed with the Mini Monitors, because they have more mid's than the Monitor 7's. Is this because the Mini monitors have bigger drivers? I wonder if I should try out the Monitor 9's, even though they are really expensive for me.

If you are used to the extra mids of the Pioneers, that could be part of the reason the Paradigms sound weak in that area. Definitely give it a bit of time (psychological break-in for you!), if you are used to a strong guitar riff in a song because the Pioneer's emphasized it, you're going to feel it missing from new speakers, but there should be other instruments which take it's place. Get in as much listening time as you can even if you can't devote attention to the speakers. Your subconscious will percolate the new sound and you'll be better off for making a decision when you can devote your attention to the speakers.

I must say that my experience with the Paradigm Monitor Series is exclusively with the Mini Monitors. I assumed that they are voiced fairly similarly, but your experience indicates that is a bad assumption!

I had to audition them twice to decide I liked the Studio20's better than the Mini Monitors. Unless you are in a large room, you might consider swapping the Monitor 7's for Mini's and maybe put the extra cash into a better sub.

My 2cents:
Listen to your Mini's vs the 7's. A good bookshelf speaker combined with a sub is a viable option to a floor standing speaker with a sub. The floor-stander usually offers better efficiency and the ability to fill a larger room.
The smaller speaker usually offers better imaging and less cabinet resonance.

The good and important thing is that you are relying on your own ears for your perceptions. A good receiver is a good receiver, but my preferred speaker is not necessarily your preferred speaker.