New Pioneer vs New Yamaha

[Magoo]

New Pioneer or New Yamaha?

This has become a real dilemma for me! I was all set to get the Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi (info here ), then Yamaha goes and releases the new RX-V2600 (info here)!
I know there are very few 74TXVi's out there, and the 2600 is just being released, so real comparisons with these are probably impossible. Maybe I could get info about the "usual" distinctions between these brands? How these sound in relation to each other, build quality, etc. From what I can tell, the feature set of each of these is pretty darn close! Does anything stand out in your opinion?
I can get a good deal on the Pioneer, and I'm sure I could find the Yamaha for about the same price. Only, to lock in the Pioneer price, I need to put a deposit on it fairly soon -- which will probably be before we know much more about the Yamaha. Since they're so close price-wise, I don't think price will be a factor in my selection at all.
I'm putting together a 5.1 system, which will probably be used 70% music and 30% HT. Speakers are Mordaunt-Short 502 fronts, MS 504 Center and MS AW152 rears, sub (not right away) will probably be a HSU or Outlaw. Room is huge volume-wise, with a 10 to 24 foot cathederal ceiling. Although the floor is carpeted, I expect the room will be fairly bright sounding as its got lots of windows.
WWAD? (What Would Audioholics Do?)

 

[dloweman]

Well, for what its worth I think that if you have a big room and a potential bright room the pioneer is the way to go. It should be a warmer sound and I think would have a little bit more power then the yamaha.

 

[Rossww]

I'm in the same boat. But I thought the yamaha 4600 is more compareable to the Pioneer VSX-74TXVI than the 2600 will be? At this point, we're almost better off waiting for the Denon 3806. BTW, does anyone know when the 2600 will be released?

 

[Khellandros66]

Wow I think Pioneer is getting back in the game as of late and now its pulled a bit ahead in alot of respects.

I still have a Pioneer VX-D609 and loved it, the only thing that really did a significant better job then it is my RX-V1300..

I will def have to demo these new Elites soon..

~Bob

 

[Magoo]

I'm in the same boat. But I thought the yamaha 4600 is more compareable to the Pioneer VSX-74TXVI than the 2600 will be? At this point, we're almost better off waiting for the Denon 3806. BTW, does anyone know when the 2600 will be released?

I guess I'm thinking about the upconverting to HDMI features of the receivers I'm considering. Does the 4600 have these same features (I'll do a search)? Also, isn't the 4600 more, pricewise? I don't think the Denon will have the upconverting features, either?
Hope I can get a few more thoughts from you guys!

 

[dillweed]

IMO Upconverting is another term that the industry has deemed the next greatest thing. My experience with DVD players -Denon 3910, Pioneer 59avi, and Receiver HK7300 is that upcoverting a DVD signal of 480i to 1080i (TV's native resolution) does absolutely nothing to my PQ.

I spent too much time over at AVS reading the various threads where upconverting is near HD quality. Bought high end players trying to reproduce these claims. Spent time on boards making sure my connections and player settings were perfect.

Results: HOCUS POCUS

I suggest that you spend any extra money on the amp part of the receiver and not the upconverting features.

 

[Magoo]

Results: HOCUS POCUS

I suggest that you spend any extra money on the amp part of the receiver and not the upconverting features.

Thanks for the insight. I already understood that one shouldn't expect a HD level picture from a signal that is "upconverted" from an analog signal (for example). I'll keep my expectations in check, regardless.
I will, at some point in the future, purchase an amp (or amps) for my system and use the AVR as a pre/pro. For now, though, the internal amps will have to suffice.

 

[Rossww]

Thanks for the insight. I already understood that one shouldn't expect a HD level picture from a signal that is "upconverted" from an analog signal (for example). I'll keep my expectations in check, regardless.
I will, at some point in the future, purchase an amp (or amps) for my system and use the AVR as a pre/pro. For now, though, the internal amps will have to suffice.

Does the Pioneer 74TXVI have the "Upconversion"?

 

[Magoo]

Does the Pioneer 74TXVI have the "Upconversion"?

I believe so... see the link in my first post, its on the Pioneer website as

Video Conversion Yes - To HDMI

 

[jcPanny]

Video upconversion explained

There is some confusion on previous posts as to the upcoversion and scaling features on new receivers.

First, many mid and high end receivers claim to have "video upconversion". This means that the receiver can take a lower resolution input (composite, s-video, etc.) and "convert" the signal for output in a higher quality format (component video, DVI, HDMI, etc.) Most receivers that "upconvert" to component video or HDMI will output the signal at a 480i resolution.

Second, the new Yamahas are the first receivers with an "upscalling" feature which is also found in some higher end DVD players. In this case, the video processor takes a 480i signal (DVD, etc.) and upscales it to the native resolution of your HDTV (720P or 1080i). The Pioneer does not have this feature.

The only real benefit to "video upconversion" is that you user has a single video connection from the receiver to the TV.
User's will only benefit from "upscalling":
IF they have a new HDTV capable of 720p, 1080i, or 1080p resolution.
AND the upscaller in the yamaha performs better than the one internal to their HDTV.

As one poster reported, he was able to see no benefit by connecting a upscalling DVD to his set. This would not be the case of most lower end Plasmas, LCDs, Front/Rear Projecton TVs.

Finally, a significant price differential in the Yamaha RX-V2500 ($800) and the new model makes the HDMI switching a very expensive feature. Users with only 1 HDMI source could connect directly to the TV or an external switchbox could be added in the future if necessary.

 

[Thunder18]

Upconversion

To expound upon JcPanny's post.

Most of these receivers that take anything from composite to s-video and are able to ouput it to component video without de-interlacing the signal are actually not upconverting but transcoding. Still a useful feature for convenience or "input deficient" tv's, though obviously not nearly as advanced a feature as upconverting.

 

[Magoo]

Thanks for explaining this! I (obviously) have little knowledge about - nor do I have the ability to differentiate between- "upconversion", "upscaling" and "transcoding." I've lots to learn yet!
I'd guess that I have no need for Yamaha's upscaling feature, since the HD Plasma I'm looking at (Pioneer 1130HD) can take care of these duties adequately? I do like the idea of only one connection to the TV (which is what I'm hoping for).

 

[Thunder18]

Magoo,
Very, sensible response. In the case of only having one connection to the TV via HDMI, there are at present at least 3 receivers that will do that from Denon, Pioneer and Yamaha.

 

[steelhrd]

I have the 2500 yammy. Recently heard the 4600. The sound was rich and full and quite clear. no harshness at at all. I have not heard that particular model of pioneer but i know you can not go wrong with 4600 yammy

 

[The Dukester]

I'm in the same boat. But I thought the yamaha 4600 is more compareable to the Pioneer VSX-74TXVI than the 2600 will be? At this point, we're almost better off waiting for the Denon 3806. BTW, does anyone know when the 2600 will be released?

The 2600 is supposed to be available in October according to my local distributor.