NEW JTR Captivator!

Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
Yes, but it would look something like this.

Which is exactly what the previous generation Captivator did.
The other issue is that band pass subs above second order have unacceptable levels of distortion.
The problem with overly broad generalizations is that they're not always true. Some of the smartest subwoofer designers around use 4th and 6th order bandpass designs for very high quality subs.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Which is exactly what the previous generation Captivator did.
The problem with overly broad generalizations is that they're not always true. Some of the smartest subwoofer designers around use 4th and 6th order bandpass designs for very high quality subs.
It is true, there is a boat load of data, and any designer who designs a band pass sub over second order is not smart.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
It is true, there is a boat load of data, and any designer who designs a band pass sub over second order is not smart.
Eh? Guys like Geddes, Danley, Don Keele, all design what appear to be higher order band pass speakers. That doesn't even get to exponential horns, which as far as I can tell are a 4th order bandpass system.
 
Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
It is true, there is a boat load of data, and any designer who designs a band pass sub over second order is not smart.
I'll be sure to tell Mark Seaton & Jeff P. that they're doing it all wrong since you clearly know more than they do. :rolleyes:
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Eh? Guys like Geddes, Danley, Don Keele, all design what appear to be higher order band pass speakers. That doesn't even get to exponential horns, which as far as I can tell are a 4th order bandpass system.
We are not talking horns, but coupled cavity band pass designs.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
I'll be sure to tell Mark Seaton & Jeff P. that they're doing it all wrong since you clearly know more than they do. :rolleyes:
We are not talking horns, but coupled cavity band pass designs.
I would advise anyone that TLS Guy strongly entrenched in his values when it comes to speaker design. He is incredibly passionate about the hobby and has been involved in it on many levels a very long time. While I will always contend that as technology evolves there often becomes more than one way to accomplish a design, speakers have been around a long time and their pricnciples have been slow to change. I'm sure if you asked for an explanation of his thoughts, TLS Guy would spend the time to elaborate in detail enough that perhaps what he knows would not be called into question.

As far as Jeff is concerned, I'm sure his products are nice, but after speaking with him on the phone doing some market research as a "potential customer", I am not sure how much experience he has in the industry. He has a unique, one-man-show operation that I hope grows into whatever he wants it to be, but that does not make him a preiminate be-all end-all speaker engineer. People seem to really be passionate about his products, though, and that's a good thing!

Unless someone has substantial experience with JTR or Seaton speakers and their design, they're just echoing heresey created by the inernet.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
We are not talking horns, but coupled cavity band pass designs.
bandpass behaviour is still the same wether you use a helmholtz or quarter wave resonator ahead of the speaker... a sealed speaker loaded at the front by another resonator is 4th order bandpass AFAICS.

I fail to see why FLH would not suffer the issues you associate with higher order BP. It sounds like modeling a higher order bandpass is sufficiently complex that I have to agree with stereodude that can't aimply generalize. Perhaps a poorly designed high order BP box has awful measures and audible distortion but that doesn't mean all high order boxes do, unless you've heard them. Band pass is a tradeoff of bandwidth as its name suggests, but if that given bandwidth is all that is desires and high order digital filters are used to prevent behaviour outside the bandwidth, I think tuning of a bandpass device, as well as the eriver chosen dictates its behaviour, not its order.

perhaps it's very easy to get bandpass design wrong, but that doesn't make ot impossible to get sounding good.
 
Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
Unless someone has substantial experience with JTR or Seaton speakers and their design, they're just echoing heresey created by the inernet.
So, I shouldn't trust my ears and my own impressions of products TLS Guy says are stupidly designed, but should trust the ramblings of someone who is stuck in their ways and rehashing what amount to subwoofer wives tales? Okay then... :rolleyes:
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
How about we start a new thread on the pro/cons of a bandpass design since it doesn't apply to the current version of this subwoofer.
 
M

Mark Seaton

Junior Audioholic
How about we start a new thread on the pro/cons of a bandpass design since it doesn't apply to the current version of this subwoofer.
I was catching up on some things here and caught this thread. I think most saw the current Captivator is a direct radiating, reflex design using the slot port shown in Jeff's post. The very first bandpass versions were my conceptual designs which Jeff executed. Further increasing of performance wasn't easily possible with the parts readily available, and the version he is shipping now was a great option he could deliver now, and the design is entirely Jeff's.

Did anyone ever start that thread for TLS to educate us on the horrors of bandpass designs? :rolleyes:
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
impressive.

but
91db at 20hz (100db at 60hz)
127db at 20hz (136db at 60hz)
:confused:
shouldn't it be more flat then that ?
 
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