its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Why'd you sell when you don't have the new speakers yet? :D I'm eager to hear your thoughts when you get the new ones though.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
Well, I sold my Triple 12HT's and will be getting a new LCR set from JTR. These speakers will employ a new "high end" compression driver set in a horn rather than the coaxial CD of the current Triple 12. It will have a similar cabinet and the same bass drivers as the current T12 but a new crossover has been built and is being tested/tweaked now in the prototypes. The speaker does not yet have a name but I call them the T12-2H (not very sexy). The CD is a high end BMS unit that should provide better clarity at all SPL's. ETA is about a month.

I'm ready and kind of excited. :cool:
Interesting, I've been following the development of the new speakers on facebook, look like some kickass speakers. Was there any thought into trying Seaton's Catalyst 12c's?
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Why'd you sell when you don't have the new speakers yet? :D I'm eager to hear your thoughts when you get the new ones though.
It all came together kind of fast. Jeff told me about the speakers (we had discussed a new audiophile version a few months ago) and I had setup a demo of my system for another Forum member who was considering JTR's. The guy I demoed to wanted to buy my speakers and so that setup my purchase.

I know Jeff pretty well and trust his judgement and ability so it is a qualified leap of faith. The timing isn't the best with The Avengers and Prometheus coming out soon but I will just have to be patient. I can always jury rig something with the remaining speakers if I get desperate. :)
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Interesting, I've been following the development of the new speakers on facebook, look like some kickass speakers. Was there any thought into trying Seaton's Catalyst 12c's?
Yes and no. :)

I really like the Catalysts but have heard them enough times to know the differences. They are quite a bit more expensive and being powered would require an power infrastructure change so for me the JTR's continue to be the better option.
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Said goodbye to my Triple 12's yesterday :( but received an OMG email from the buyer last night that took the sting out. It's nice to sell something to someone and have them really apprieciate it. :)


And then repositioned the remaining 6 speakers into a temp but workable 6.2 that actually sounds really good. I am very surprised that the little Slanted 8 does such a good job as the CC.


This config will definitely tide me over until the new horns show up. :cool:
 
avliner

avliner

Audioholic Chief
Hey RMK,

yeah, no doubt the new owner must be quite happy with his new toys tough ;)

Out of curiosity, why are you upgrading to the new horns now??
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Hey RMK,

yeah, no doubt the new owner must be quite happy with his new toys tough ;)

Out of curiosity, why are you upgrading to the new horns now??
Yes, he is enjoying the T12's and that feels good for both of us.

As to why, that is really simple ... curiosity. :)
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Gotcha, thanks :)
I guess I could have elaborated a bit ... :)

Several months ago I was talking with Jeff Permanian about the crossovers that I recently upgraded on my T12's and we started talking about new products. He said he was thinking about doing an "audiophile" version of the Triple 12's employing a high end compression driver and horn rather than the CD/coaxial of the current model. His concern was that the new CD was expensive ($750 cost) and he wasn't sure his average client would need or want that level of performance and price point. I told him that if he built the uber Triple, I for one would be interested and well, here we are.

Now, it's just a waiting game ... :)
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
I received a couple of photos today but unfortunately, they are not my speakers ...

But for those of you who are interested, here are a couple of pics of the new Noesis 212HT-LP




New Compression Driver/Horn






They look pretty cool ... No?
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
The JTR Noesis 212HT-LP LCR's have been in place for several weeks now and I have them dialed in placement wise and in terms of EQ with Audyssey MultEQ-XT32. I watched several movies, lot's of demo clips and quite a bit of music (both HD and standard Redbook CD's). They are without a doubt the best HT speakers I have heard/owned. Their performance on music is no less impressive. Jeff at JTR has a pair that are circulating among the dedicated hobiests community at AVS and here is one well written and detailed review by an unbiased and knowledgable fellow. His expierence and opinions are similar to mine but he does a much better job of expressing himself. It is a lengthy review and the referenced LS-6 speakers are some line source speakers that he receintly aquired.

I had a great time Saturday hosting the Noesis demo and have enjoyed listening to them the past 5 days. I removed the LS-6's from the living room and setup the Noesis speakers on some chairs with them toed in a little. I use a Bosch measurement laser to try to get them identically placed to within 1/8" of each other. The front of the speakers was 36" from the sidewalls and 30" from the rear walls.

Here is the playlist for the demo:

Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture (88kHz 24bit from HDTracks)
Pomp & Pipes - The Vikings (44Hz, 16bit from HDTracks)
Black Light Syndrome - Duende (CD)
Eagles - Hotel California (XRCD)
Pete Belasco - Deeper (CD)
Elton John - Madman Across the Water (96kHz 24 bit from HDTRacks)
Master of Chinese Percussion - Poem of Chinese Drum (K2 HD mastered CD)
Cassandra Wilson - Strange Fruit (CD)
Nils Lofgren - Keith Don't Go (CD)
Chris Botti in Boston - Shape of my Heart with Sting and Josh Groban (Blu-ray)
Michael Jackson's This is It - The Way You Make Me Feel (Blu-ray)
Fellowship of the Ring - Cave Troll Scene (Blu-ray)
Flight of the Phoenix - Crash (Blu-ray)
The Incredible Hulk - Cop Car Scene (Blu-ray)
War of the Worlds - Pods Emerge (Blu-ray)

Last night I listened to the entire Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances album (96kHz 24bit from HDTracks). I've also listened to some sections of Open Range, used them for college and NFL football, watched Charlotte's Web with them, and listened to too many other songs to list.

My LS-6 (line source) speakers are flat down to 20 Hz in my room. The Noesis speakers rolloff on the bottom at around 60 Hz so I used them with an 80Hz crossover and my infinite baffle subs system handled the bass. Th LS-6 speakers start rolling off at the high end at around 12,000 Hz while the Noesis speakers are completely flat to 20,000. The last two octaves of the Noesis are actually slightly louder than the other octaves. This gives them a tiny little bit of a brightness in my room, but will help greatly in a room with a lot of acoustical treatments and AT screen that tend to lower those octaves.

I was surprised at how clear the Noesis speakers sound compared to the LS-6. I'm not quite sure how to describe it, but when switching speakers it is immediately noticeable to me. I'm not sure if it is because of their higher efficiency (101 db vs 91 db/1 watt) or the horn or what. However, as soon as music or movies start the speakers just seem so transparent. It could just be a difference in horn vs ribbons. The Noesis speakers are also a little more dynamic than the LS-6's. When the volume on the quiet portions is similar to the LS-6's, when there are loud passages or effects, the Noesis seem to go louder. In other words, there are higher dynamic peaks.

The soundstage is better with the LS-6's, but that could be because I've spent more time setting them up. Instead of a diffuse, yet wide soundstage I've heard with other speakers, the LS-6's have a detailed and wide soundstage. At first, I wasn't able to get a very wide soundstage with the Noesis. I played around with placement and ended up using less toe-in and the speakers a little closer to each other. It still isn't the same presentation as the LS-6's, but most that use the Noesis speakers will be using them for movies and also have a center speaker.

Both speakers are incredible for movies with an advantage probably going to the Noesis speakers if you want maximum impact, volume, dynamics. However, the LS-6's are no slouch. I played them at the Tour with a 40 Hz crossover to my infinite baffle system and they did everything they needed to do. We reached peaks of 127 dB with Flight of the Phoenix without any distortion at all.

Here are some thoughts on the Noesis Speakers:

They sound great at all volumes. I've had other speakers that don't sound good until about 80 dB and then can't handle anything above 90 dB. These have tremendous clarity and detail at any volume level. Symphonic Dances has some extremely quiet passages and some very loud passages. With a silent room, you can hear all the instruments in the quiet passages and they maintain their clarity.

They are extremely dynamic. The gunshots in Open Range are the most real I've ever heard. The speakers provide instant SPL levels that seem much higher on dynamic peaks than other speakers.

They are easy to listen to. I didn't get any fatigue or irritation from listening to them for hours at a time and at loud volume levels.

The midbass is tremendous. Songs like Duende or Poem of Chinese Drum really show off the ability of the dual 12" drivers in each speaker. Duende has some great bass guitar played by Tony Levin. John Janowitz of Acoustic Elegance recommended this song several years ago. I bought the CD and really like the song (and others). The Poem of Chinese Drum was included on a Burmester demo disc, but I bought the entire Master of Chinese Percussion CD. The drums hits are extremely fast and dynamic. There is incredible power in them that requires lots of displacement to render properly. The Noesis speakers easily showed off the speed and power present in the song. My only complaint on the album is that there is some background hiss that is probably more noticeable with these high sensitivity speakers.

You can hear all the nuances of voices. I picked my demo songs based partly on the variations in voices. From the Eagles to Cassandra Wilson, everyone sounds so, so good. With the clarity you can hear more of the breaths and mouthing nuances that make everything so realistic.

The Noesis speakers are probably one of the most neutral sounding speaker I've listening to. They offer incredible output from 60 Hz up to 20kHz with an almost flat frequency response. I like them better than the CHT SHO-10's, ED Cinema 12's, and JTR Triple 8's that I've heard. The Noesis is a "no regrets" type of speaker that will be exceptional at most things and excel at just about everything.
 
W

westcott

Audioholic General
They are without a doubt the best HT speakers I have heard/owned. Their performance on music is no less impressive.
I think most people have a hard time getting used to horn loaded speakers because of their extreme accuracy. On anything less than perfect sources, they can sound far less forgiving than direct radiating speakers most people grew up listening to.

I have found that horn loaded speakers do not require as much toe in as direct radiating speakers. I also think that once you acquire a center channel, you will find the sound stage far more to your liking.

I am glad you are happy with your new speakers and are not afraid to experiment. Not many would make the changes you have over the years and I congratulate you on being open minded and unbiased in your approach.

Enjoy!!!!
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
I think most people have a hard time getting used to horn loaded speakers because of their extreme accuracy. On anything less than perfect sources, they can sound far less forgiving than direct radiating speakers most people grew up listening to.

I have found that horn loaded speakers do not require as much toe in as direct radiating speakers. I also think that once you acquire a center channel, you will find the sound stage far more to your liking.

I am glad you are happy with your new speakers and are not afraid to experiment. Not many would make the changes you have over the years and I congratulate you on being open minded and unbiased in your approach.

Enjoy!!!!
Hi westcott,

The main review above wasn't done by me, it was another person who received a pair of Noesis for a GTG and then gave the opinions listed in my post.

I have LCR Noesis and actually I found I preferred a approx 20 degree toe in due to the 60/40 dispersion pattern. As you know, the horn provides directivity and limits early reflections. The secret sauce in the Noesis is the excellent BMS Compression Driver and custom crossover. This mid-range/HF CD will play distortion free up to crazy SPL's. The Noesis is really breaking ground as a high performance HT speaker and I continue to be blown away by the SQ and dynamics. The Art of Flight Bluray is an amazing film and one that showcases these speakers beautifully. I suggest you try it out. :cool:
 
A

armed

Audioholic Intern
i wish i could sit and watch a movie with that set up..
clean and simple
 
J

James_King

Banned
It's really nice discussion about new HT room and also really nice above comments, guys, i also want to say something about, guys, there is no doubt it's really nice photo graphs of HT room. The Revels were amazing very specific sound system but they seemed damaged when trying to cope with the complete powerful variety of HT or certain Stone and Move files. The noisier I performed them the more intense they seemed. The JTR Danley combination can perform very easily to well beyond amounts I can accept and yet are very specific in their own right...
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
It's really nice discussion about new HT room and also really nice above comments, guys, i also want to say something about, guys, there is no doubt it's really nice photo graphs of HT room. The Revels were amazing very specific sound system but they seemed damaged when trying to cope with the complete powerful variety of HT or certain Stone and Move files. The noisier I performed them the more intense they seemed. The JTR Danley combination can perform very easily to well beyond amounts I can accept and yet are very specific in their own right...

Umm thanks ... I think ... I did always have problems with the "Stone and Move" files. :confused:

and now he's banned. :p
 
M

MidnightSensi2

Audioholic Chief
Might be time for me to upgrade. :)

Congrats man! Hey I lost your number, can you drop it to me in a PM? I wanted to pick your brain again.
 

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