New House- getting pre wired...in ceiling, in wall? Clueless

K

khal80

Audiophyte
TIA

Building a new house and got called in for the low voltage meeting and will have to make decisions soon

First floor- open concept

I was asked if i wanted the 5.1 speaker pre wire in wall or in ceiling...

Second floor- small game room

Many have said to just get a soundbar for this room, but I think I would still like surround sound speakers 5.1...possibly 3 in wall and 2 back in ceiling?

Im not sure what the correct setup is..

What speakers do i buy? do they have to be ceiling mount? Can I not tilt/angle any speaker? will they sound just as good if not ceiling?

Pros and cons for hidden and non hidden

I also have to buy all the speakers...want the best bang for you buck. The audiophiles preferred speaker brand without breaking the bank

Thanks again..any help or direction of where to go will be greatly appreciated
 
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
Wires should go to base of the walls. Few people choose in-wall speakers, most like regular floor standing towers or bookshelf types on stands. If I was getting a house built, I would seriously think of having a wide ventilation/wiring duct installed behind the drywall with an opening in a spot that should be behind a normal TV on a wall mount, and an opening near the base of the wall, allowing to pass TV wires easily behind the wall.

For speaker wires, two lines to each corner of the living room (added redundancy and flexibility), and ditto in any room/bedroom likely to be used as a den or "man cave". You should also look into having the house pre-wired with CAT5e or CAT6 network cable to every room in the house. Wi-Fi is nice, but wired is better for many applications. Having a wired home also allows to setup extra wireless access points, helping to extend reliable Wi-Fi coverage. Network wires should reach all rooms, with at least one close to a window or door to the backyard. (A good Wi-Fi signal in the backyard is a nice touch).

Network RJ-45 wall plates in a strategic corner of every room, speaker wire terminal wall plates in the ones where it makes sense, and a dedicated closet shelf with a power outlet, and where all telecoms equipment can be setup and hidden away from view (Wi-Fi router, switch, phone and Coaxial cable splitter) can add a great deal of appeal to potential buyers, and will avoid you a good deal of the ugly and messy wiring spaghetti most of us have to contend with.





Just my two cents.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
While it's nice to talk about wiring everything everywhere, it's extremely cost prohibitive to do this.

Wiring in family room: Are there rooms above your family room? If yes, then under NO circumstances do you want in-ceiling speakers! Think about it for a second and you will understand why rooms above would make this terrible. Second is up! In ceiling speakers send sound downward into the room, but also upward to the room above. Almost as much sound goes both ways, so under no circumstances do you want to do this. Instead, you want to go in-wall, or better yet, in room. This is a personal choice and you get more quality with in room speakers such as floor standing or bookshelf speakers than you do with in-wall speakers. But, giving the choice of in-wall or in-ceiling only, go in-wall. You get better sounding options, great isolation, and better placement. But, if you go with floor standing or bookshelf speakers, then have wiring pulled to standard outlet height (12" or so from the floor) and have a set of binding posts put in the wall at that height. This means, you need to plan accordingly for the left/right speakers. You may want to go on-wall for surrounds, so if the room supports this, then put them at the proper height on the wall. For the center channel, you may want something wall mounted, but it depends on where you are putting your components. There's a lot of thought in this one room, so feel free to discuss just this room at length and what you want to accomplish. Where equipment will go in relation to the TV, etc.

By example, my family room TV is on the wall (hung). My center channel is wall mounted directly beneath it. My left and right speakers are floor standing, and the speaker wire was brought through the carpet to connect to the bottom of the speakers directly. I have a subwoofer which I put behind the couch. The room only would support the surround speakers if I went in-ceiling, so I don't use surround speakers. Instead, my surround speakers will be in my basement/home theater setup. All the equipment for my family room is in a rack about 15 feet to the left of the TV. I have basement access (for now) between the TV location and the rack location. (it's actually a lot more complex than I am describing, but close enough for comparison)

For upstairs, if this is a better room for sound due to the size/shape, then the same rules apply. Still, if there are rooms behind the walls you would put speakers into, then in-ceiling is a better choice than in-wall. Floor standing or bookshelf is still the better sounding and isolation option. I use in-ceiling speakers with angled speakers in all my upstairs rooms. None of the rooms are dedicated spaces where better sound would significantly benefit the space and the angled woofers with the speaker wiring close to the front of the room works well. But, in a dedicated space I would try for in-room speakers of some sort if at all possible.

I would (and did) wire the home with cat-6 for networking. If you have a equipment location that is not accessible and is not near the TV, make sure to put in 1.25" (or larger) conduit between the TV location and the equipment location.

Considering such things as whole house wiring, and planning for future upgrades. If you have a basement in the home and it is unfinished, or if you have a decent crawl space, than that's great as it gives you access to walls on both floors after construction is done. But, if you have a finished basement, then a great deal more thought should go into the whole house wiring setup, location of equipment, and a whole lot more.
 
K

khal80

Audiophyte
thanks for all the advice!

What a difference a weekend of research makes.

I understand that in-ceiling is not the most ideal, but unfortunately has to be the case for the downstairs family/living room.

Every room will be wired with Cat-5

I have looked in to the Def tech UIW RCS III in -ceiling speaker with a 30 deg angle for the front 3 and a standard type speaker for the surrounds

The upstairs game/family room where the wife and I will watch most of our tv is up for debate in terms of in ceiling/wall or bookshelf.

I like the clean look of in ceiling but we have not decided on the route here as the house will be wired in ceiling or combo of in ceiling and in wall (LCR)

thougths?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
All I can say is that if the choice were no speakers at all, or in-ceiling speakers in my family room, I would go with no speakers as the in-ceilings simply are a terrible choice when rooms are above them. Your situation may be different. I'm not sure I would go with Def Tech on in-walls as that isn't a major business area for them but would be looking at in-wall/ceiling specialist companies such as Sonance and SpeakerCraft, both of which really have deep lineups of in-ceiling and in-wall product.

Still, I'm not sure what is driving the in-ceiling demand for your primary viewing and listening area. There are on-wall solutions that are also simply much better choices than in-ceiling if you have rooms above or kids who may be sleeping.

In-ceiling speakers certainly have their place, but the main family room TV is not it. A bedroom isn't bad really if it isn't an overly critical listening space and there are no rooms above. In fact, since bedrooms often have other bedrooms behind them, in-ceiling speakers can help isolate the audio to the room you are in.
 
Buildsafire51

Buildsafire51

Enthusiast
I would (and did) wire the home with cat-6 for networking. If you have a equipment location that is not accessible and is not near the TV, make sure to put in 1.25" (or larger) conduit between the TV location and the equipment location.
If I may... what is the purpose of the conduit... do you mean if run in wall/crawl space, etc...
I'm looking to relocate where my equipment is, does this mean, rather than moving the wires (or extending them), that I should do so inside conduit for my in wall/crawl space rerouting? Also, metal conduit? Thanks, and sorry to hijack the post.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
I think he means that as technologies change, it's hard to predict what sort of cables will be run from the receivers, tuners, game consoles, etc. to the TV; and putting ducting in the wall behind the TV will allow for easier insulation-free wall fishes for future proofing. Future owners of your house might appreciate it. It wouldn't have to be metal. PVC or anything that's smooth and easy to run wires through would work.
 
Last edited:
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
Rojo guessed right. Sorry if I was not clear. If you are to mount the TV on the wall, having a conduit behind the drywall with an opening near the wall mount, and an opening at the base of the wall, like a PVC pipe, or air duct, will allow to keep the TV's wires out of sight. It trumps just having a coax or HDMI wall plate and power outlet installed near the TV mount, because it offers the flexibility required to use any current or future wiring. Future-proof it probably isn't, but there's a good chance the solution's flexibility will be appreciated and make it userfull for many years.
 
Last edited:
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
As stated above, the reason for conduit is because of HDMI.

You see, 15 years ago, HDMI didn't exist. If you had a projector on your ceiling then you ran VGA and component video and composite video to it. Digital didn't exist. So, fast forward 15 years and that theater is still there. In fact, the theater is still awesome. The custom paint, the impossible to access ceiling, the works! Only, you can't connect a Blu-ray player to your new projector because it requires a digital HDMI connection. So, you rip down your drywall, run the new cable, have it all patched and repaired and then turn on the Blu-ray player only to find out that the HDMI cable you just installed is defective.

:eek:

Typical residential conduit is Carlon Resigard or similar. It is not PVC pipe as that can require multiple pieces, and has sharp bends as you go around corners and can be nearly impossible, and other ductwork setups are difficult.

Instead, it is a flexible orange (low voltage) conduit which can be gently bent around corners, strapped to walls, and is designed for in-wall connectivity. They have a blue version often called 'smurf tube'.

car-sce4x1-100.jpg

If you have retro access from a crawl space, or from an unfinished basement, or from a drop ceiling, etc. then conduit isn't required, but from equipment to display locations, it is extremely important to put in this conduit. It MUST NOT BE SMALLER THAN ONE INCH inside diameter. HDMI specifications say that the connector head is 7/8" wide. Some aren't, but that's why I recommend at least 1.25" conduit.
 
Buildsafire51

Buildsafire51

Enthusiast
I think he means that as technologies change, it's hard to predict what sort of cables will be run from the receivers, tuners, game consoles, etc. to the TV; and putting ducting in the wall behind the TV will allow for easier insulation-free wall fishes for future proofing. Future owners of your house might appreciate it. It wouldn't have to be metal. PVC or anything that's smooth and easy to run wires through would work.
Gotcha...that makes more sense. Great idea too!
 
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
Make it as wide as possible. I'll give you, as an example, some of the hidden quirks of my setup:

The significant lady doesn't like to use the home theater for regular TV watching, (Remote-lazy... No joke, she really is.), so my Digital cable box is not only connected to my AV receiver, it is also connected to the TV using Component and RCA stereo... So:
- 5 RCA wires for the cable box to the TV.
- 1 HDMI wire to the TV

PBS is not included in my plan, but it comes in really well with an OTA antenna. (Yes, the 12$ rabbit ear deal works for HD, and does so very well). So:
- 1 Coax wire to hookup the rabbit ears.

This thing needs power.
- 1 Power cord

For the sake of simplicity when someone wants to use it, I have a cable to hookup tablets and phones straight to the TV, bypassing the AVR, so:
- 1 micro HDMI to HDMI goes to TV

When using the digital radio channels from the cableco, I prefer to use my Stereo receiver (No HDMI) over the AVR, because the sound is better for music, and/or when my favorite lady watches TV, and I join her mid-show, just turning on the stereo yields better sound instantaneously without disrupting the picture:
- 1 Pair RCA to TV from Stereo.


So that is 10, yes ten wires to my TV. Even if the Coax cable, which is the smallest, is the last to go in, with all the rest of that stuff in there, you can imagine how one needs a decent diameter to keep flexibility.



Granted, many of the connexions I have there, very few bother with, and even fewer insist on having both an AVR and Stereo receiver hooked-up to the TV, but I'm just illustrating how crazy-bloated some people's tech spaghetti to the TV can be. My setup doesn't require a duct, but If I ever bought a house, then I would set it up, and it would be as wide as possible.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top