New home...wiring question

A

aabrams

Enthusiast
Hi All,

I have an integrator which wants to use a "bundled" cable. (2) rg6, (2)cat5, (2 fiber).

What am I going to use fiber for? Is it worth the extra expense?

Eventually I see having fiber run to the house from the local ISP or video provider, but fiber INSIDE the house??
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
aabrams said:
Hi All,
I have an integrator which wants to use a "bundled" cable. (2) rg6, (2)cat5, (2 fiber).
What am I going to use fiber for? Is it worth the extra expense?
Eventually I see having fiber run to the house from the local ISP or video provider, but fiber INSIDE the house??

That's a good question:D How much more it is with fiber?
Maybe when the fiber service lines extends all the way to your house, there might be a hub at the panel to convert the electrical signals to light? Might be sufficient?
 
A

aabrams

Enthusiast
2 ethernet and 1 cable was going to be 2000.
2 ethernet 2 cable and 2 fiber is 2900

This is for 10 rooms...so about 90/room more. But that also includes an extra RG6
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I don't know what you'll use fiber for. Maybe future home networking. I can't see why to pay for something that would be easy to install and hide later if needed. Unless you have extra money to throw around for possible future unknowns.

As far as computer networks, I'd still rather have a wireless 802.11 network. You can still use hard wired servers in the distribution area.

Fiber optic cable is fragile (I don't care what others will say). And fiber terminations aren't cheap either.

Just my $0.02 (maybe only one cents worth)
 
H

Hullguy

Audiophyte
aabrams said:
Hi All,

I have an integrator which wants to use a "bundled" cable. (2) rg6, (2)cat5, (2 fiber).

What am I going to use fiber for? Is it worth the extra expense?

Eventually I see having fiber run to the house from the local ISP or video provider, but fiber INSIDE the house??
I'm a master electrician in the Boston area. The cost doesn't seem excessive to me and your home would be future proof.

The cost to come back later and install the fiber by itself would be substantially higher. Wages and material costs will continue to rise. In addition the labor rate to snake the fiber in the walls after the construction is finished is higher than new construction. It's just easier to install when the walls aren't sheet rocked yet!


Hope this helps with your decision. Jim
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
aabrams said:
2 ethernet and 1 cable was going to be 2000.
2 ethernet 2 cable and 2 fiber is 2900

This is for 10 rooms...so about 90/room more. But that also includes an extra RG6

Hard to see the future:D I didn't when building mine:eek:

Both posts have good points. Future proofing is an unknown. Is it worth $900?
Perhaps that $900 in that house is peanuts compared to the total price. Maybe in a $mill house it may be nothing?
But, the distances you are talking inside the house versus from your house to a node in the scheme of things is insignificant and may not be worth that $900 as wireless of RF will do the trick very nicely.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
Fiber is very expensive in all aspects. The problem with it, however, is that nobody knows what type of fiber is going to be used for home applications.

ST-ST, LC-LC, Etc. Etc.

So, you might have to have someone come back and re-terminate the fiber. Super expensive. I wouldn't get it, because of uncertainty in the technology. It's a near 50% upcharge.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
InTheIndustry said:
Fiber is very expensive in all aspects. The problem with it, however, is that nobody knows what type of fiber is going to be used for home applications.

ST-ST, LC-LC, Etc. Etc.

So, you might have to have someone come back and re-terminate the fiber. Super expensive. I wouldn't get it, because of uncertainty in the technology. It's a near 50% upcharge.

Then, it is almost a no-brainer to leave it out of the home.:D The short distances just don't warrant it.
 
A

aabrams

Enthusiast
lots of good opinions here. The $900 upcharge doesn't include termination ( so I don't have to incur that now). The bundle doesn't just have the fiber, it has an extra rg6...so there is a little more benefit to the bundled cable.

The thing about fiber being fragile...I have heard that before, and kind of scares me a little...especially the fact that I won't use it right away, and won't find out about it for 5 years or something.

Another good point is not knowing what the actually std. inside the home will be. Maybe it just doesn't pay.

The wireless part...won't work well for 2 reasons.
1) THis is a big house which would need multiple access points.
2) I'm a computer guy by trade, and wireless just isn't fast enough, or reliable enough.

I had lots of interference in my last house which was about 2300 sq.ft, and not nearly as much stuff. I do like it though, and plan to use it in the backyard and stuff.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
aabrams said:
lots of good opinions here. The $900 upcharge doesn't include termination ( so I don't have to incur that now). The bundle doesn't just have the fiber, it has an extra rg6...so there is a little more benefit to the bundled cable.

The thing about fiber being fragile...I have heard that before, and kind of scares me a little...especially the fact that I won't use it right away, and won't find out about it for 5 years or something.

Another good point is not knowing what the actually std. inside the home will be. Maybe it just doesn't pay.

The wireless part...won't work well for 2 reasons.
1) THis is a big house which would need multiple access points.
2) I'm a computer guy by trade, and wireless just isn't fast enough, or reliable enough.

I had lots of interference in my last house which was about 2300 sq.ft, and not nearly as much stuff. I do like it though, and plan to use it in the backyard and stuff.

Well, while fiber is fragile, don't forget that cable companies string it all the time, even on the oceans floor.
The extra RG6 can be pulled with that bundle so that is not a big issue.
I am sure the people who installs the fiber know how?
But, in the end, I just don't know why a coax would not work just as well on the short runs in a home? Lots to think about.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
mtrycrafts said:
Well, while fiber is fragile, don't forget that cable companies string it all the time, even on the oceans floor.
Yeah, but trans-oceanic cable is more steel cable than fiber cable. There's usually a steel and a copper tube jacket over the cable. The whole cable with armor is almost an inch in diameter covering just 8 to 12 fibers. It's not exactly flexible.

aabrams, if your a computer guy then you know how expensive fiber converters and terminations can be. Unless you have access to the equipment through your work or know somebody who can do it for you. It's great for my work networks because it provides a physical separation to prevent transients from taking out the whole network. Speed isn't really an issue for us. I could see using fiber at home if you had a REALLY big house with super long cable runs. Or if you were going to have a T-1 or T-3 run to your home. (Oh, and I like the twist lock ST connectors. They're like BNC connections)

One of my favorite lines I laugh at is when they say that adding more strands to the cable gives you redundancy. If one fiber is broke, they're all broke.

If you do decide to run the bundle with the fibers, they need to test ALL fiber runs before their done. I don't think they can do that without terminations. Nothing like installing something for the future then when you decide to use it you find out the contractor broke a strand while pulling it through the wall.
 
A

aabrams

Enthusiast
Its really just a gamble when it comes to fiber. There is no telling what it might be used for in the next 5+ years. Apparently, there are at least 2 neighborhoods here which come with fiber inside the home....and apparently its in use.
 
A

aabrams

Enthusiast
My feeling is that in the next 5 years, fiber will enter the home (not just come to the house). Any opinions?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
aabrams said:
Apparently, there are at least 2 neighborhoods here which come with fiber inside the home....and apparently its in use.

Have you thought about asking those neighbors about it, what they are using it for and how?
If it is in the neighborhood, perhaps then the buyers may feel left out of the latest and greatest gadgets? :D
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
A long post that I hope helps

I know I posted earlier on this subject but, after reading a few more posts, I wanted to make myself a little bit clearer. It seems like you are really looking for good reasons to do this and can only come up with.... well, maybe in 5 years. Which might not be such a bad thing…..

I own an A/V integration company and have a little over 7 years experience in the CE industry. Hence my name “InTheIndustry”.

That being said, I will be the first one telling you to be better safe than sorry. If you're okay with the charge of $900, go ahead and do it. I have found that when dealing with matters such as this it is better to do too much than too little. Just try to make yourself more aware to the following:

1st. Running fiber is not future proofing your home. Who knows how many and of what type of fiber you will need or want in the future? If you really want to future proof the house run as big a conduit allowed (by your building codes) with pull strings. That way, you can run anything you want later. This, I think, is your best solution.

2nd. Research how much it costs to terminate fiber optic cables. It's a very involved and time consuming process. Not just any residential A/V company (in fact, I'd wager few if any in your area) can do it. On top of that, a good fiber termination kit can carry costs well in excess of $2K. And the materials to keep the kit stocked are expensive as well. Even if you want to do it yourself, and had no problem with the expense of the kit, the skill level required to do a fiber termination is tremendous. It's not like popping on an F-connector or Cat-5 jack. Even pros mess them up from time to time. So, be prepared for a large bill when it comes time to terminate the fiber in your walls. When might you not have to worry about this expense? Who knows, but if the cable and phone companies want you to upgrade to a new service.... it might be cheaper to let them run their own wire. 5 years seems like an awfully optimistic time-table as to when fiber can be utilized in the home. I would be curious to hear what products your neighbors claim they are using that are connected through a fiber network in their homes. I think if fiber were to be common in 5 years someone, somewhere, would be claiming it with near certainty and be willing to back it up tangibly.

3rd. Don't worry about it being too fragile. It can sustain the normal amount of wear and tear associated with installing it. Worry about the fact it may not be the proper size and/or type of wire needed down the road. Just because a manufacturer bundles it in with other residential wiring does not mean they guarantee it to be usable in future applications. The future is inevitable and uncertain when it comes to CE and fiber optics.

4th. In my house I ran cat-6 through 2” conduit and am comfortable with what it will offer me long term technology wise. I recommend this solution to my customers as well. I’m not going to be running a hospital from the inside of my house any time soon, and neither are most of them. However, everyone’s needs and ideas are different. I am not flip-floping from my first post. I personally think fiber is excessive in most homes today. However, I also recognize the needs and values of you as an individual. Do what you are most comfortable with and grants you peace of mind (which is very important and worth $). When it comes to structured wiring…. too much is oftentimes not enough!
 
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A

aabrams

Enthusiast
In the industry,

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. It's really hard to predict the future. I really appreciate you taking the time to go through all of this. I'll probably do the fiber (it isn't really that much in the grand scheme). I think the labor is cheaper with the bundle anyway. I think I might also run a conduit to certain rooms in the house. Thanks for the ideas!
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
If you have the time and money to run extra conduit, do it! Having an extra 1.5 or 2" pipe going around can be helpful if you ever need to pull more cables down the road. Instead of feeling PO'd about having to fish cables through the house, you just need some pull string and BAM! Cables!
 
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