New help with what to replace 10 yr old receiver with... Yamaha, Denon or Marantz? Receiver or Pre/Pro?

mkcaudiovideo

mkcaudiovideo

Audiophyte
The RX-A3080 is back ordered? Wow. Maybe they have stopped production of these units to get ready for all the new 2020 models.

Can't believe I've been waiting since August for a RX-A1080! Not sure anything from Yamaha is shipping since COVID-19.
 
coxric

coxric

Audiophyte
Cost is always a deciding factor. But yes, looks and build quality are as well. Not to say that Yamaha lacks in those areas, in fact I have a Yamaha receiver in my bedroom system that I like very much. I'm sure I would have been happy with either piece.
I know it's been a few months but I have a question if you're still checking this forum. Since you own both Yamaha and Marantz receivers, do you have an opinion about how the sound compares between them? I plan to eventually review them in person, but for the moment I'm researching online and trying to get an idea of exactly how "warm" Marantz is compared to Yahama when playing music. I think I lean more toward accurate, clean sound, especially because I've yet to find in-ear monitors I like more than Etymotic, even though plenty have more bass or a warmer sound. But I currently have a Yamaha RX-V 1900 receiver paired with Martin Logan Motion speakers and sometimes the high end sounds a bit harsh to my ears...especially with these Folded Motion tweeters, I expected a bit smoother sound. Honestly, I don't like to EQ much, I prefer flat, and I've never used any of the automated room EQ functionality...I just balance speaker volumes with a sound level meter and make a guess on the bass.

This time around I would probably look at a Marantz 6015 or a Yamaha 2080, so not quite in the price range of what you bought, but I suspect the characteristic sound wouldn't be that different between the price points so much as different between the brands.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Congratulations on your purchase!
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
do you have an opinion about how the sound compares between them? I plan to eventually review them in person, but for the moment I'm researching online and trying to get an idea of exactly how "warm" Marantz is compared to Yahama when playing music.
O No Not Again :(
tenor-3.gif
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I know it's been a few months but I have a question if you're still checking this forum. Since you own both Yamaha and Marantz receivers, do you have an opinion about how the sound compares between them? I plan to eventually review them in person, but for the moment I'm researching online and trying to get an idea of exactly how "warm" Marantz is compared to Yahama when playing music. I think I lean more toward accurate, clean sound, especially because I've yet to find in-ear monitors I like more than Etymotic, even though plenty have more bass or a warmer sound. But I currently have a Yamaha RX-V 1900 receiver paired with Martin Logan Motion speakers and sometimes the high end sounds a bit harsh to my ears...especially with these Folded Motion tweeters, I expected a bit smoother sound. Honestly, I don't like to EQ much, I prefer flat, and I've never used any of the automated room EQ functionality...I just balance speaker volumes with a sound level meter and make a guess on the bass.

This time around I would probably look at a Marantz 6015 or a Yamaha 2080, so not quite in the price range of what you bought, but I suspect the characteristic sound wouldn't be that different between the price points so much as different between the brands.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Congratulations on your purchase!
I'd think you must have some seriously well calibrated ears for that sort of thing. Especially model by model let alone by brand, just amazing to catalog differences that are meaningful just by ear!
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
I know it's been a few months but I have a question if you're still checking this forum. Since you own both Yamaha and Marantz receivers, do you have an opinion about how the sound compares between them? I plan to eventually review them in person, but for the moment I'm researching online and trying to get an idea of exactly how "warm" Marantz is compared to Yahama when playing music. I think I lean more toward accurate, clean sound, especially because I've yet to find in-ear monitors I like more than Etymotic, even though plenty have more bass or a warmer sound. But I currently have a Yamaha RX-V 1900 receiver paired with Martin Logan Motion speakers and sometimes the high end sounds a bit harsh to my ears...especially with these Folded Motion tweeters, I expected a bit smoother sound. Honestly, I don't like to EQ much, I prefer flat, and I've never used any of the automated room EQ functionality...I just balance speaker volumes with a sound level meter and make a guess on the bass.

This time around I would probably look at a Marantz 6015 or a Yamaha 2080, so not quite in the price range of what you bought, but I suspect the characteristic sound wouldn't be that different between the price points so much as different between the brands.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Congratulations on your purchase!
I have not compared any new 8k receivers as i don't own or intend to own any for another 10 years. But, i have checked my Yam RX-A3080 against a Marantz SR8012 that i had on loan for a month. I have mentioned this before on some other thread...the Yam has a better sounding DAC/Preamp section.

They are both Class AB and have about the same amount of power (mas o menos). However, One cannot claim that either one is relatively warmer, neutral, etc, because with parametric EQ, you can adjust either to taste and get the sound signature you prefer. I wonder when folks will start to comprehend this. High end receivers are not restrictive purist piece 2 channel gear where you are stuck with some specific sound signature. They have way too many options to change the sound as you please!

But, the Yam's DAC has better detail retrieveal, etc, etc. It is just a better resolving/better DAC implementation. I discerned it over and over on a couple of different speakers. Hence, i gave the win to Yamaha. I also have a almost perfectly treated room, etc, etc and extreme levels of OCD. For most regular folks, it shouldn't matter.

P,S
I also own other receivers (Pioneer Elite, etc) and am not a Yam fanboy. But, I choose to run away from this thread for now and give time for all the Marantz fanboys to calm down/quit raging (frothing at the mouth) after they read this post.
 
coxric

coxric

Audiophyte
I have checked my Yam RX-A3080 against a Marantz SR8012 that i had on loan for a month. I have mentioned this before on some other thread...the Yam has a better sounding DAC/Preamp section.

They are both Class AB and have about the same amount of power (mas o menos). However, One cannot claim that either one is relatively warmer, neutral, etc, because with parametric EQ, you can adjust either to taste and get the sound signature you prefer. I wonder when folks will start to comprehend this. High end receivers are not restrictive purist piece 2 channel gear where you are stuck with some specific sound signature. They have way too many options to change the sound as you please!
This sounds like pretty much the answer. So when I read reviews lauding Marantz’s “musicality” being more pleasing, that’s maybe confirmation bias? My current Yamaha sounds amazing with theater content. I love my speakers, which are still less than a year old. But I want to upgrade the tech and I’ve had two Yamahas so far. Stay in the family or try something new? Hmmmm...
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
Honestly, I don't like to EQ much, I prefer flat, and I've never used any of the automated room EQ functionality...I just balance speaker volumes with a sound level meter and make a guess on the bass.

This time around I would probably look at a Marantz 6015 or a Yamaha 2080, so not quite in the price range of what you bought, but I suspect the characteristic sound wouldn't be that different between the price points so much as different between the brands.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Congratulations on your purchase!
The Denon and Marantz receivers are totally based on Audyssey EQ. You probably won't even be able to set it up without going thru an Audyssey EQ session first. Once that's done you can set the sound to Direct or Pure which turns it off or go into Audyssey and turn it off. But if you really don't want to ever deal with EQ, Denon/Marantz really isn't for you. In fact, by default it will EQ your midrange and the only way I found to turn it off is with the $20 tablet/iPhone app.

On the other hand, Yamaha has less EQ capability and those that use it typically use no EQ or the built in shelf EQ capability to adjust bass. These are two different approaches. Some say you can make anything sound like anything else with EQ but I have found that's not really the case. You might get closer but never identical.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
On the other hand, Yamaha has less EQ capability and those that use it typically use no EQ or the built in shelf EQ capability to adjust bass.
Blatantly incorrect NONSENSE!!
What do you think Audyssey does?
Flagship Vs Flagship:
Marantz 8012 (last year's flagship) has a 9 band GEQ
Yam 3080 (last year's flagship) has 7 band full blown PEQ for variable frequency and Q control. 7 for the speakers 4 separate for the subs.
I should have been less diplomatic on my previous post. Feature wise, the Marantz flagship was a INFERIOR scrub in comparison to the Yam 3080 and the Yam just sounds better any day!

P.S
HEOS sucks balls next to MusicCast anyday.
 
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coxric

coxric

Audiophyte
The Denon and Marantz receivers are totally based on Audyssey EQ. You probably won't even be able to set it up without going thru an Audyssey EQ session first. Once that's done you can set the sound to Direct or Pure which turns it off or go into Audyssey and turn it off. But if you really don't want to ever deal with EQ, Denon/Marantz really isn't for you. In fact, by default it will EQ your midrange and the only way I found to turn it off is with the $20 tablet/iPhone app.
My current receiver is 10 years old and it came with YPAO but I was ignorant about the process at the time and thought my ears would serve me better. Haha.

I'm excited to try room EQ now whichever receiver I pick. Obviously I need to hear them in a store but even then it's just not the same as your home environment. On the one hand, with EQ even if you can't tune the sound to your exact liking, I guess you can get pretty close. On the other hand, why does Marantz continue to market their signature sound and the HDAM chip if they aren't coloring the sound somehow? And would the room impact the sound more than the receiver?

With my Etymotic earbuds, even as accurate as they are with the stock filters, you can alter the sound with filters of different impedance. And there are no room effects since the sound is being beamed into your brain. I expect my living room setup (for music) to be as accurate and detailed as the earbuds, which so far isn't quite the case. Maybe room EQ will get it closer?

Anyway, I guess it's impossible to get specific enough in words to describe these subtle differences in sound (and I am a writer by trade). The more vids I watch and articles I read, the more enthusiasm I seem to find for Marantz products, whereas Yamaha users are more like "Yamaha is better." My dad used Yamaha and I've had an RX-V992 and a RX-V1900, 20 years and 10 years old, respectively, both of which are still working, so I have an affinity for the brand. But the idea of something new is exciting. And I'm not someone who upgrades often so I try to gather as much info as possible before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
My current receiver is 10 years old and it came with YPAO but I was ignorant about the process at the time and thought my ears would serve me better. Haha.

I'm excited to try room EQ now whichever receiver I pick. Obviously I need to hear them in a store but even then it's just not the same as your home environment. On the one hand, with EQ even if you can't tune the sound to your exact liking, I guess you can get pretty close. On the other hand, why does Marantz continue to market their signature sound and the HDAM chip if they aren't coloring the sound somehow? And would the room impact the sound more than the receiver?

With my Etymotic earbuds, even as accurate as they are with the stock filters, you can alter the sound with filters of different impedance. And there are no room effects since the sound is being beamed into your brain. I expect my living room setup (for music) to be as accurate and detailed as the earbuds, which so far isn't quite the case. Maybe room EQ will get it closer?

Anyway, I guess it's impossible to get specific enough in words to describe these subtle differences in sound (and I am a writer by trade). The more vids I watch and articles I read, the more enthusiasm I seem to find for Marantz products, whereas Yamaha users are more like "Yamaha is better." My dad used Yamaha and I've had an RX-V992 and a RX-V1900, 20 years and 10 years old, respectively, both of which are still working, so I have an affinity for the brand. But the idea of something new is exciting. And I'm not someone who upgrades often so I try to gather as much info as possible before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for the feedback!
Marketing is marketing, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with reality. Like saying an avr is "musical"....of course its musical when playing music, what a silly description whoever came up with that one. I'd say the D&M avrs have superior REQ in Audyssey over YPAO but inferior GEQ vs Yamaha's PEQ, but both have plenty of options for tuning for something specific to your preferences. As far as some sort of basic "warmth" by general brand, meh.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
My current receiver is 10 years old and it came with YPAO but I was ignorant about the process at the time and thought my ears would serve me better. Haha.



I'm excited to try room EQ now whichever receiver I pick. Obviously I need to hear them in a store but even then it's just not the same as your home environment. On the one hand, with EQ even if you can't tune the sound to your exact liking, I guess you can get pretty close. On the other hand, why does Marantz continue to market their signature sound and the HDAM chip if they aren't coloring the sound somehow? And would the room impact the sound more than the receiver?

With my Etymotic earbuds, even as accurate as they are with the stock filters, you can alter the sound with filters of different impedance. And there are no room effects since the sound is being beamed into your brain. I expect my living room setup (for music) to be as accurate and detailed as the earbuds, which so far isn't quite the case. Maybe room EQ will get it closer?

Anyway, I guess it's impossible to get specific enough in words to describe these subtle differences in sound (and I am a writer by trade). The more vids I watch and articles I read, the more enthusiasm I seem to find for Marantz products, whereas Yamaha users are more like "Yamaha is better." My dad used Yamaha and I've had an RX-V992 and a RX-V1900, 20 years and 10 years old, respectively, both of which are still working, so I have an affinity for the brand. But the idea of something new is exciting. And I'm not someone who upgrades often so I try to gather as much info as possible before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for the feedback!
Don't come to conclusions by your experience with a 10 year old receiver and YPAO and their current flaghsip. There is no comparison.

For starters, Marantz still has archaic neandertal GEQ for its flagship (facepalm). This is my main beef with Marantz.

Here are some options you have on a Yamaha Flagship
-7 band PEQ with variable frequency, variable Q. (this alone should put it above a Marantz!)
-4 bands for the Subs
- 3 adjustable DAC filters
- Custom DSP options, for DSP level, delay, room size, liveness, etc
- tone controls
- presence effects
- dynamic eq (ypao volume)
etc just to name a few

IF you know what you are doing, you can make it sound however you want (feel like a sound surgeon).

Audyssey, MCACC, big fail! primarily geared for dudes in lousy rooms setting something up real basic for movies. I also have the Pioneer Elite flagship btw. Yam can accommodate something similar for dudes with such low requirements.
But, if you wanna go notches above and demand high fidelity for your music collection, Yamaha happens to offer all the flexibility. You can customize "manually" all you want.

Also, I've been dcking around for more than a month now with a apparently celebrated minidsp SHD and its DIRAC. Starting with its shttty DAC implementation, I can't for the life of me get this piece of sht to sound as good as the RX-A3080 for music. It is starting to look like 1100 dollars down the drain for now.

Yamaha hit a homerun with the flagship aventage line, in my experience. But, fanboys will always be fanboys without even trying their competitor's product and start some disinformation campaign. I expect many a post from such fanboys soon... :D

Nevertheless, don't take my word for anything. You should buy a few receivers, experiment and see for yourself
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Audyssey, MCACC, big fail! primarily geared for dudes in lousy rooms setting something up real basic for movies. I also have the Pioneer Elite flagship btw. Yam can accommodate something similar for dudes with such low requirements.
But, if you wanna go notches above and demand high fidelity for your music collection, Yamaha happens to offer all the flexibility. You can customize "manually" all you want.
LOL. Like guys who buy into silly dacs...
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
LOL. Like guys who buy into silly dacs...
I am gonna tie u up with a blindfold and a polygraph in front of my Denafrips Venus and a coupla shtty dacs (a 10 dollar Realtek will be in the mix too)

I'll ask very basic questions like....."which one sounds better?"

If you fail that polygraph!!! I swear to God....

I know you're equating DACs to snakeoil cables...but, boy, are you in for a surprise...

hsssssssss :D
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I am gonna tie u up with a blindfold and a polygraph in front of my Denafrips Venus and a coupla shtty dacs (a 10 dollar Realtek will be in the mix too)

I'll ask very basic questions like....."which one sounds better?"

If you fail that polygraph!!! I swear to God....

I know you're equating DACs to snakeoil cables...but, boy, are you in for a surprise...

hsssssssss :D
I'd take ya up on it if you were local :) I'd be surprised if I could distinguish them in a proper test let alone answer "which sounds better" which is meaningless if we like different things anyways. Better doesn't necessarily come along with preference.....
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
I'd take ya up on it if you were local :) I'd be surprised if I could distinguish them in a proper test let alone answer "which sounds better" which is meaningless if we like different things anyways. Better doesn't necessarily come along with preference.....
My guess is those that think all DACs sound exactly the same have not listened to 5 or more DACs side by side? To me there is an audible difference between the Topping E-30 DAC and the Hegel H90 USB internal DAC. Some DACs even sound slightly different when using the XLR or the RCA ports. In addition, most external DACs have 3-5 different sonic signatures that can be dialed in.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
My guess is those that think all DACs sound exactly the same have not listened to 5 or more DACs side by side? To me there is an audible different between the Topping E-30 DAC and the Hegel H90 USB internal DAC. Some DACs even sound slightly different when using the XLR or the RCA ports. In addition, most external DACs have 3-5 different sonic signatures that can be dialed in.
Just no need generally to test external dacs let alone go out of my way to go listen to electronics generally, waste of time IME. Don't even own an external stand alone dac, no need for such. I could see different "sounds" on xlr vs rca due to level differences, but otherwise that's just bullshit unless something's broken. Some folk think good looking boxes sound better.....and some think Taco Bell is acceptable :)
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
I'd take ya up on it if you were local :) I'd be surprised if I could distinguish them in a proper test let alone answer "which sounds better" which is meaningless if we like different things anyways. Better doesn't necessarily come along with preference.....
The questions will get very complicated. The polygraph will take a lot longer.....You asked for it.

HSSSSSsssssss
 
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