New guy wanting to learn about Whole Home Audio Systems

[BMXTRIX]

Not really for specifics because much of the technology changes so quickly, but forums for A/V run rampant and there is more than a few people who are willing to talk on the subject.

The simple fact is that every setup tends to be different and every home is different. For people who just want to do some stuff themselves, it's a lot of research to do so, but can save some money in the end. But, much like car repair, just because you COULD do research and do it all yourself, it sometimes makes sense to just hire someone for a day to come in and set it all up who has all the experience already.

This is a personal call of course.

 

[JohnMcD348]

What about Antennas for stereo

How do people mount antennas for the stereo receiver? What is the best way to install? Is there something in the attic that would work or does it need more of a grounded outdoor setup? I'm not sure but I probably couldn't install a multi array setup outside or my HOA would have a heart attack.

I would want both AM and FM since I listen to alot of talk radio and my wife and son love the regular local music station and I may eventually get a Sirius setup for the home since we both have it in our cars already.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You are protected under federal law to put an antenna on your roof if you desire. Your HOA may not PEEP about it as long as it is within federal guidelines.

But, I personally stuck a Terk antenna up in my attic at the highest point possible.

It's just for FM, but it works phenomenally well and we get pretty much everything that I could want in our area.

I would recommend that you start a new thread asking about antennas though, you aren't likely to get as much action by taking your own thread off topic with new informational requests. Also search on antennas, you may get some info.

 

[JohnMcD348]

Thank You. That's interesting about the Federal Law. I'll have to look into that. Here in Florida, there's always news stories and such about an HOA taking people to court for the most assinine things. We've lived here in our community since November and have yet to receive the deed restrictions for the community. WE asked our Realtor for them even before we signed and have yet to be approached by the HOA in the community.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thank You. That's interesting about the Federal Law. I'll have to look into that. Here in Florida, there's always news stories and such about an HOA taking people to court for the most assinine things. We've lived here in our community since November and have yet to receive the deed restrictions for the community. WE asked our Realtor for them even before we signed and have yet to be approached by the HOA in the community.

Here's the law...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Pretty much in plain English as well - any standard TV antenna on a mast under 12' above the roofline appears to be protected by this law.

 

[JohnMcD348]

Thanks. I'll print that out and keep a copy of it in my files just in case. I know one of the members of the HOA, she was my realtor until she did a few things I thought were suspect and I moved on. So far I've had no issues but I'm always leary.

 

[ryan110]

outdoor speaker wire

With regards to outdoor speaker wire, what is recommended? I have read threads that have said that in-wall/in-ceiling wire would be just fine, is this correct?
Lastly .... I'm running about 150' of wire, would 12 awg be acceptable enough?
Thanks

 

[BMXTRIX]

With regards to outdoor speaker wire, what is recommended? I have read threads that have said that in-wall/in-ceiling wire would be just fine, is this correct?
Lastly .... I'm running about 150' of wire, would 12 awg be acceptable enough?
Thanks

I would look for a direct burial cable if you intend to go a long way outdoors. The elements are really hard on cabling. But they design some cables at a bit of a premium price which have jackets which should survive for years in the great outdoors. Yet I just checked my Monster CIPRO cable outside which has been there for five years. Only a few inches show, but the wire is still in excellent shape. Not nearly 150' of cable though. I would still lean towards a direct burial cable, but would not swear that it is required.

 

[1990Viper]

I still need one or two more posts before I can send picture links so I'll get them up in awhile. I just looked at the wires and see they are a 4 strand wire set with red, black, green and white.

I'm thinking that I would want at least a 3 zone system to allow me to watch TV, Listen to the radio out at the pool and also allow a different music selection within the house.

Am I on the right path here or am I totally off?

From the sounds of it, I think these speakers were just for ambiance and not for loud entertainment.

I would take a look at the speakers. You may have a 70 or a 100v speaker system. This is used if you don't have a high power amp. The speakers have a tiny transformer on them allowing for a low power amplifier to be used. More like a passive amplifier built right on the speaker. This is mainly used when you only have one source of speaker output, but wanted to run many speakers off of one low power output and high impedance.

EG: If you had say a 100watt amp and 10 speakers. each speaker would get 10watts... adding speakers without a transformer would make the impedance too low... Putting speakers in parallel and or series is not good practice..

having a 70v system, would mean you can add as many speakers as you like and there would be no need for impedance matching..

hope this helped...

 

[nick1000000]

OK Let me see if I have this right.

1)So I would need the receiver for the primary unit(family room) and that would be able to handle the TV viewing.

2)Then I would need an amp feeding the outside speakers that would tie inline from the wires in the family room area to the outside for radio listening.

3)Also, I would need an amp to serve the remainder of the house for radio listening.


Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.

1) Yes
2,3) No, not necessarily. http://hometheater.about.com/od/audiocomponents/a/multizoneinfo.htm
This should help understand the multi-zone systems. Separate amps are not always needed.

If you are really interested in having your son listen to his own radio stations in his room you can always get an FM Tuner and connect that to the speakers. They are kind of expensive for being just a tuner. He could always get a boom box

 

[BMXTRIX]

1) Yes
2,3) No, not necessarily. http://hometheater.about.com/od/audiocomponents/a/multizoneinfo.htm
This should help understand the multi-zone systems. Separate amps are not always needed.

From that link..

"3. Some high-end Home Theater Receivers incorporate the ability to run both a Zone 2 and Zone 3, in addition to the main zone. On these receivers, Preamp Outputs are provided for both Zones, which require separate amplifiers for each Zone. However, some receivers will give you the option of running either Zone 2 or Zone 3 using the built-in amplifiers of the receiver. In this type of setup, the user can run a Second Zone with the internal amplifiers of the receiver, and a Third Zone using a separate amplifier. However, since you are using the Receiver to power the Second Zone, you will still sacrifice the full 7.1 channel capability of the receiver in the main room."

This basically repeats what I said, but the bottom line is that even if a receiver supports zone 2/3 functionality and you are going with 5.1 so you have the extra 2 channels available, you typically should still go to an external amplifier because you are far less likely to damage the A/V receiver or put additional wear and tear on the amplifier components if you go to an external amplifier for additional zones. Consider the cost of things such as Audiosource amps, it isn't a bad way to go and really could save money in the long run as you don't run into wear and tear issues by over-exerting your receiver for the added zones, or robbing amp power from the main surround area to drive speakers which are secondary to the main audio experience.

In all fairness, there's a difference between 'required' and 'strongly recommended'. But, if you blow your receiver, then the price of a new receiver will have more than paid for the external amplifiers.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would take a look at the speakers. You may have a 70 or a 100v speaker system.

This is extremely unlikely in a residential installation, especially when used with home-run 16g wiring.

This is used if you don't have a high power amp.

Actually, this is most often used with a high power amplifier, but with 50 to 100 speakers run in mono from a single location. Paging systems in schools and office buildings often use 70v speaker setups to deliver audio.

It is similar to modulating video over RF and significantly deteriorates the audio quality which is why you will never find this in a residential installation from any worthwhile installer.

I would say that this is not something that is worth thinking about for how incredibly unlikely it is.

 

[nick1000000]

From that link..

"3. Some high-end Home Theater Receivers incorporate the ability to run both a Zone 2 and Zone 3, in addition to the main zone. On these receivers, Preamp Outputs are provided for both Zones, which require separate amplifiers for each Zone. However, some receivers will give you the option of running either Zone 2 or Zone 3 using the built-in amplifiers of the receiver. In this type of setup, the user can run a Second Zone with the internal amplifiers of the receiver, and a Third Zone using a separate amplifier. However, since you are using the Receiver to power the Second Zone, you will still sacrifice the full 7.1 channel capability of the receiver in the main room."

This basically repeats what I said, but the bottom line is that even if a receiver supports zone 2/3 functionality and you are going with 5.1 so you have the extra 2 channels available, you typically should still go to an external amplifier because you are far less likely to damage the A/V receiver or put additional wear and tear on the amplifier components if you go to an external amplifier for additional zones. Consider the cost of things such as Audiosource amps, it isn't a bad way to go and really could save money in the long run as you don't run into wear and tear issues by over-exerting your receiver for the added zones, or robbing amp power from the main surround area to drive speakers which are secondary to the main audio experience.

In all fairness, there's a difference between 'required' and 'strongly recommended'. But, if you blow your receiver, then the price of a new receiver will have more than paid for the external amplifiers.

I agree with what you are saying. I am just wondering how often the OP is going to be using all zones at once or even 2 at once.

 

[1990Viper]

This is extremely unlikely in a residential installation, especially when used with home-run 16g wiring.


Actually, this is most often used with a high power amplifier, but with 50 to 100 speakers run in mono from a single location. Paging systems in schools and office buildings often use 70v speaker setups to deliver audio.

It is similar to modulating video over RF and significantly deteriorates the audio quality which is why you will never find this in a residential installation from any worthwhile installer.

I would say that this is not something that is worth thinking about for how incredibly unlikely it is.

But it still could be possible.. You can't rule it out 100% until the OP tells us what he finds in each room.. He's got so many connections, I can't imagine all going on at one time. He would need a multi-room output receiver. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here, just does not seem logical to have so many speaker connections with a single receiver.

 

[BMXTRIX]

But it still could be possible.. You can't rule it out 100% until the OP tells us what he finds in each room.. He's got so many connections, I can't imagine all going on at one time. He would need a multi-room output receiver. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here, just does not seem logical to have so many speaker connections with a single receiver.

This is standard practice for residential A/V. All rooms are independently wired from 8 ohm speakers to a central location (head end). Then, the home owner can pick which speakers they want to use at any time or how they want to set things up.

You can buy speaker selectors, smart controls, independent zone systems, or run them all at once with impedence matching products. You can break things into 1 or 2 zones, or have each room be 100% on its own.

In ten years, I have NEVER seen a home with 70v systems installed for audio. Not a single reputable company with any home A/V knowledge would install a 70v system for music. The limitations on quality for 70v systems is pretty severe and is akin to modulating video to many TVs.

The general expectation is that the home owner will add a speaker selector (impedence matching) and an amplifer - OR - the home owner will use a speaker distribution block with an amplifier, then have impedence matching volume controls in all the wall locations.

Because every wiring run is home run, it means that if there is an issue with any single leg in the system, it has no affect on the other legs of the system.

 

[1990Viper]

I understand what you are saying. But with a speaker selector switch you can only do one set at a time. Having a 70v system seems to me to be more useful, as you can have a separate volume control at each location. If you are good at wiring, I don't see there ever being a problem. I've never in my life see speakers wire just fail for no reason...unless they were damaged prior to installation.