New guy wanting to learn about Whole Home Audio Systems

J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
Hello all. New guy from Florida. Average guy with some technical knowledge.

I am the new owner of a home that was wired throughout for audio. Only problem is I know absolutely nothing about it. At the moment, only the family room and patio are actually setup for sound but the prewire is installed and accessible throughout the house.

I would like to learn about audio receivers that are compatible with a whole house audio setup. In the family room I have access to 11 wires and 1 RG cable in a bundle. The blue audio wires are numbered and correspond with numbered wires throughout the house.

I'm not an audiophile and not really looking for 7.1 Digital sound and acoustics but would like to have a stereo and TV (Samsung Series 550) plugged in and be able to have additional sound in the family room and also be able to listen to the stereo outside at the pool.

Eventually I'll install speakers and volume controls in the remainder of the house but for right now I just want to learn about the components involved and general technical information so I can make an informed choice.

Thanks for any and all advice you can give me.

JTMcD.
 
Kai

Kai

Full Audioholic
Hi John,
Welcome.
I'll start with just some very basics.
Many receivers, at moderate costs, provide for 2 zones of sound...second zone is generally audio only...the primary zone is the living room, etc. and the second is a room/area of choice. Having a pre-wired house makes choosing and connecting that zone easier. Some also offer more than 2 zones perhaps eliminating the need for a speaker switching system.
In general most main audio/video..."home theatre"...rooms want at least 5.1 audio to get the most out of some tv shows and especially movies. Otherwise a good 2/2.1 channel system for music is great.

Start out by researching some of the top brands for receivers: Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo are the best known and probably have the highest sales followed by Marantz, Harmon Kardon, Sony, etc. They all have their pluses and minuses that can be read about on this and other forums in dedicated threads to either the brand or the brand and brand specific models. They all have prices that start out around $300 ish +/- and go up to "how much did you say?". Generally the lower the price the fewer features...such as zones. Receivers, while having the ability to last for a decade or more, generally last until the next major change in audio codecs, etc then an upgrade may be desired but not necessarily required. I believe we just topped out in the area of major audio codecs with the addition of Dobly True HD and the DTS codecs meaning there "should not" be any major changes in that area for the next few years giving extra life to the recent batch of receivers.

Speakers on the other hand can and do often last for several decades providing wonderful sound to the owner. Generally one can start with a 2 way system and add to over time and as budget allows to achieve a 5.1 system that is the "standard" for dvd/movies and many of todays tv shows.

Here are the two primary factors you must think about and decide on a baseline for as you start this project.
1) Budget...How much do you have to spend...then add another 20%, at least lol, because as you get into this you will see that while being able to get a nice system at arguably reasonable costs for a bit more you can achieve a lot. Also when working within a budget you will be forced to make decisions on whether to settle for a less expensive system, then perhaps replacing it in a couple of years or less after realizing that it does not provide what you hoped for thus making the entire cost much much more...we have all been there : ( lol.

2) Initial system: Based on the budget where do you start and finish? Decide on what is important to you initially then what can be added that will add and enhance the system as monies allow. Perhaps if you want more than one zone you can start with a good receiver, one pair of speakers and a sub for the main tv/movie area, a pair of speakers for the bedroom and another pair for poolside. You now have a great multi-room system, perhaps needing to add an inexpensive speaker changing switch if the receiver only has 2 zones meeting all your initial needs and desires. You will have better quality...meaning better sound...meaning more life span rather than relegated to the basement shelf because while inexpensive they also sound less than desirable...that is easier to add on to and making every dollar spent well spent.

Some of the major speaker brands are Klipsch, Polk, Paradigm, etc. There are many many more and unfortunately some of the well regarded brands such as Aperion and SVS are internet only sales making listening to them difficult to impossible though usually internet only speaker brands offer generous "return" policies making home auditioning a nice feature. Again start with brand research and thread searchs. You will find many dedicated threads to a specific brand/model of speaker and many many forum members happy to offer their experiences and suggestions.

A good 5.1 system can be had at SVS, etc. starting at $1000 or so.

Last but not least. Is the house set up for in wall/in ceiling speakers or is it just wiring. It will be important for us to help out knowing if you have this capacity and will or will not use it...there are many arguments for the benefits or negativities of this method.
Whew that's it for me.
Good luck and keep us informed.
PS: We need and must have photos of the areas as we are all HT voyeurs and love to see what people have and have access to.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Look at Niles Audio, speakercraft, and russound websites to get an idea about the different levels of gear for whole home distribution.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Not sure your interests or hobby's, but if your good with wood and like to build things. Building your own speakers is fun and rewarding. Plus fairly inexpensive.
 
F

FNG212

Audioholic
Another thing you should ask yourself that will really drive your decision making (read: wallet) is whether you want independent zone audio or not, ie. the pool listening to one thing and the family room listening to something else at the same time. If you don't care, a main amp with single/duel inputs should suffice.

This is exactly what I'm doing to my house right now. I should be in the attic running some wires but I got distracted.

I have my computer hooked to my Audiosource Amp 100 stereo amp running to a 1-in-8-out distribution wall plate. That wall plate runs to each of my zones which are controlled by impedence matching volume control knobs. Isberian and BMXTRIX were really helpful answering my questions and such.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
Thanks for the replies. You've already got me thinking about what I need vs what I want.

OK, to answer some of your questions:

My house is with blank boxes(electircal outlet type) in teh wall. They are located in the lower area similar to the electrical outlets. There are two in each room except the Kitchen and Dinning room. There is another box located about 1 foot away from the electrical outlets that I assume is for the volume control. Each wire is numbered and corresponds to a wire in the family room area.

I would like to be able to watch TV in the family room and also allow the use of the stereo outside in the pool area or even allow someone to listen to it in their room.

I already have two speakers mounted in the cieling in the family room and two in the patio area. I'm at work right now and I can't recall the make of the speakers right now. I think they are either Polk or Boston.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I'm going to go through my blurb which may repeat a bit from above.

The first thing you need to do is figure out what you really have and where everything is. That is, saying you have a blue wire is like saying you have a pink car... It just doesn't tell anyone anything beyond the color.

You will want to determine what wires you actually have. Speaker wire, CAT-5, control, etc.

Typically CAT-5 is in a blue-outer casing and consists of 4 pairs of solid wires. This makes a total of 8 wires, and they look like this:
http://www.skycoms.co.uk/images/cat5.jpg

Speaker wire has no typical color of the jacket, but usually contains 2 or 4 wires which will be red and black. If four wires, then typically red, black, white, and green.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/b5/b527b7ab-4847-499d-bb67-5539512e48b5_400.jpg
or
https://www.shopping-headquarters.com/shop/pc/catalog/ctg\43083.jpg

Control wire is rare and would typically appear as very skinny wires in a case similar to CAT-5, but not in twisted pairs the way CAT-5 is.

Now, once you have identified all the wires, you need to make a list of where everything is and what it is.

ie:
Dining Room: CAT-5 & Speaker wire to box near XXX
Kitchen: CAT-5 & Speaker wire to box near XXX

Typically, from a single central location there will be speaker wires run to a location near a light switch and then up to the ceiling. The easy part is finding out that there are speaker wires run to a box near a light switch. The hard part is then finding out where the actual speakers may need to be in the room.

This is where you will have to do some homework and some sleuthing to figure things out. Perhaps get a fox & hound kit (tracer/toner) to trace wires.

http://www.valley-ent.com/pics/cabletonera.jpg

The real goal is to find out the complete wiring layout of your home and what is actually available (completely) before setting an agenda and making plans for what you will do.

Once you know what is there, then you can start to think about what you would like to do. Be prepared to adjust your wants based upon your budget, and be prepared to adjust your budget based upon your needs.

That is, at a very basic level you can get a two zone receiver, setup the main zone as a 5.1 surround sound, and pick ONE extra room to run off the extra two channels of amplification in many receivers as zone 2.

ZONES: Zones are defined as separate areas of unique audio in your home.

If you have a Patio, Garage, and Dining room, and they are always playing the same thing, at the same time - then that is one zone.

If you have a Patio, Garage, and Dining room, and they don't have to play the same thing at the same time, then they are 3 separate zones.

It is also possible to use speaker selectors to have a single zone with many rooms, but turn those rooms on and off individually.

Likewise, it is possible to completely separate all the rooms in your home into individual zones and allow control of each room from within that room with the right equipment.

Typical low end/entry level:
Two zone surround receiver
Zone 1 = Home theater area - 7.1 or 5.1 audio
Zone 2 = Output from receiver to amplifier to speaker distribution to volume controls in each room (impedence matched) to speakers in the walls/ceilings of each room.

This can be done for the price of speakers ($50 to $500+) per pair, and volume controls (less than $100 each) and an entry level amplifier ($100-$200 or so) and the receiver ($300-$1,000), and the surround speakers ($300-$100,000+). At the lowest end, really about $120 per room for stereo, and cheap surround for $500 and $500 or so for the receiver and some extra cash for misc parts. Under $2K total.

At the top end is individual zones of audio with good speakers in each room. $200 per pair of speakers (at least) and a contrller/keypad in each room ($200ish) and separate amplification for each room (200 per room), and a controller with multi-zone capabilities ($1,500 or so). A 6 zone system with good surround and receiver will pretty easily cost $8,000 or more.

What's the point of the nicer system?

The biggest things are that it is typically REALLY easy to use the nicer systems and they are phenomenally reliable. My wife, in-laws, and kids have no issue listening to music throughout my home.

The downside is price. It can also be something of a process to upgrade parts and pieces.

There are hybrid systems you can put together which have multiple zones, and multiple capabilities. Somewhere between the cheap and the really nice. But, it really is more about what you want and what you can afford instead of what the limits of the technology are. You should have lots of options available to you.

I wnated to add that speaker brands don't matter. Really, don't care what speakers you have. Good speakers costing $1,000 typically sound better than $50 speakers, of course, but they almost always hook up and are connected the exact same way. So, if you want speakers in your laundry room or bathroom where sound echos and never sounds great, you can go with far less expensive speakers compared to other rooms which may benefit more when you spend more. Don't focus on the brands, and be aware that there are often FAR cheaper alternatives out there, especially online, which may make you really happy for the money spent.

Check www.partsexpress.com and www.monoprice.com for some concepts of pricing and parts.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
Ok, great info. That's the kind of stuff I nned to know and look for. I can't recall exactly but I believe the wires in thh house are the simple 2 strand speaker wires. I'm pretty certain they are not Cat5 or anything of the like. The house was built 12 years ago and whole house netwrokig wasn't really that big of a thing at the time.

I know the wires are numbered individually and correspondingly between wires in the family room and then to the individual paris in each room. Ex: wire #4 in the family, there is another Wire #4 in my sons bedroom. #3 corresponds betwen a wire in the family room and the master bedroom. So on and So on. There is already a set of Cambridge speakers set into the ceiling of the family room just behind where the couches and sitting area is located. If I am able to, I will try to post a few pics of what I have so you can actually see the wire and speaker arrangement. Also, the patio(lania) area for the pool has a set of Boston Accustic speakers set in the covered area.

After I learn more about this stuff, I will be able to at least speak coherently about what I'd like to do. I have alot to learn so please feel free to say what you like, I won't take offense.

Thanks
Jonh
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
I still need one or two more posts before I can send picture links so I'll get them up in awhile. I just looked at the wires and see they are a 4 strand wire set with red, black, green and white.

I'm thinking that I would want at least a 3 zone system to allow me to watch TV, Listen to the radio out at the pool and also allow a different music selection within the house.

Am I on the right path here or am I totally off?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Alright, you are starting to draw a picture in your head of what you want.

ZONE 1: Surround zone w/TV - Likely HDMI connectivity
ZONE 2: Pool - A speaker or 4
ZONE 3: House (rooms 1-5)

A receiver like this gives you 3 zones (exactly)...
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp#

For this I would recommend the following:
5.1 or 7.1 speakers for the main room (family room)
2-8 speakers at the pool - please note that outdoor areas can be tough to fill with sound, and I would use a dedicated amplifier for the pool area to get solid power out there which doesn't rob power from the family room system.

Something like this would be sufficient typically: http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOSOURCE-AMP100-POWER-150w-HOME-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-AMP_W0QQitemZ120414282871QQihZ002QQcategoryZ39783QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Then you have the rest of the house: This will need a volume control and speakers in all rooms. Impedence matching volume controls OR a good speaker selector with impedence matching built in. I would go with the later. Add to it an amp that can handle more rooms:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOSOURCE-AMP200-HOME-THEATHER-AMPLIFIER-2-CH-AMP_W0QQitemZ130301431612QQihZ003QQcategoryZ163829QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That should do the trick.

The hardest part: You have found where the speaker wires go from the family room to the other rooms, but in the other rooms, do the wires break out and go up into the ceiling? Typically this IS the case and somewhere in the ceiling is the location where you are supposed to install ceiling speakers.

Finding the location to cut through drywall and install ceiling speakers is going to be a challenge. A really good wire tracing kit may be able to do it, but that's just a maybe. You might need to get into the attic to find where the wires were pulled to so you can put speakers in the correct locations.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
OK Let me see if I have this right.

So I would need the receiver for the primary unit(family room) and that would be able to handle the TV viewing.

Then I would need an amp feeding the outside speakers that would tie inline from the wires in the family room area to the outside for radio listening.

Also, I would need an amp to serve the remainder of the house for radio listening.

I took a few pictures this morning and stored them on Photobucket so hopefully this will be my 5th post and I can show what I have to begin working with.

I do have outlet areas in most of the rooms in the home but they are located closer o the floor area about level with the electrical outlets. Again, I'll show pics as soon as my post count reaches high enough to post.

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
Photos of what I have

OK here's the photos I took this morning. Please pardon the mess, we're still moving in and out of boxes.

Here's the bundle of wires behind the TV in the family room.



They are individually numbered and there are corresponding numbers with wires in rooms throughout the house.



Here's the set that I "think" are for the speakers that are installed in the ceiling for the family room. They are all a 4 strand (Red Green Black Red) twisted pair.




This is the control box area that is installed in all the bedrooms and the corresponding numbered wire is present behind them. When we first moved in, we were painting our sons room and removed all teh covers from the wall and this is when we discovered what the blanks were. We asked everyone except the home owners since they were not available at the time and no one knew. Including the realtor..



On one wall in each bedroom, except the Master(they are elevated) there are these electrical outlet boxes that have the wires placed into them. Here's an example:



The Master Bedroom:



I didn't take any of the pool area but it is already setup with two speakers and a dial control.
 
Last edited:
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
another question on zones

Would it be possible to get a 4 zone unit and be able to listen to 2 individual radio stations in the home? Say I wanted to listen to News Radio (AM) and my son wanted to listen to his favorite Country station(FM) and still have the TV and outdoor areas separate or would that involve the need for separate receivers? Also, I would possibly like include a PC into the mix some time down the line. I wold probably build that part myself. Mainly using the computer as a separate DVR type device on top of our Cable company DVR and to have the families music collection installed and easily accessible.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
No but thanks for the site. Lots to look at there. Not sure if it's in my budget but definitely gives me something to think about and possibly look forward to if I become hard core into the whole house setup.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
The ZR4 system is a good base to start with and might not be as expensive as one might think. Programming is pretty straight forward, but takes a little time. The amp section is 4ohm stable so it leaves speaker selection pretty open. Just a thought.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Would it be possible to get a 4 zone unit and be able to listen to 2 individual radio stations in the home? Say I wanted to listen to News Radio (AM) and my son wanted to listen to his favorite Country station(FM) and still have the TV and outdoor areas separate or would that involve the need for separate receivers? Also, I would possibly like include a PC into the mix some time down the line. I wold probably build that part myself. Mainly using the computer as a separate DVR type device on top of our Cable company DVR and to have the families music collection installed and easily accessible.
The answer is yes and no. You only have as many sources as you have sources. You only have one tuner in your receiver so you only can tune one station. What you are asking would be like saying "I have two sets of keys to my car. Does that mean I can drive it to the store the same time my wife is picking up the kids?" Obviously you can't do that because you only have one car. Similarly, the receiver only has one tuner built into it. On the other hand you can basically add as many extra components as the receiver has inputs and listen to any one of them in any of the three zones. So you can add a stand alone tuner or two or three stand alone tuners if you want. You can connect an iPod, computer, DVD, Blu-ray Disc, XM Radio, multiple cable boxes, VCR, record player, or about anything else.

The options are truly limitless so it makes a lot of sense to really figure out exactly what you want to do. In contrast, my home has 8 different auidio sources AND six different video sources which I can feed to over a dozen different zones throughout my home as I want to. At the end of the day it is all about you wants vs your budget.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
OK, I guess I really need to sit down and seriously think about what I want to do with my home.

Another question about the wiring and setup options.

Could I also install an intercom system using the wiring or is that an entirely separate setup. The house is relatively small 2600sqft but it was just another thought. I seem to recall some model homes I'd seen over the years that had a house intercom/ radio speaker system installed.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
OK, I guess I really need to sit down and seriously think about what I want to do with my home.

Another question about the wiring and setup options.

Could I also install an intercom system using the wiring or is that an entirely separate setup. The house is relatively small 2600sqft but it was just another thought. I seem to recall some model homes I'd seen over the years that had a house intercom/ radio speaker system installed.
Take time to go through things - your budget will fluxuate with your thoughts, and generally, you will want to consider all the options.

I want to point out that you can add speakers from places like www.monoprice.com and find deals on eBay which can really allow you to get the most bang for your buck.

The intercom I believe is not possible, it requires specific wiring for the setup, typically some sort of power and CAT-5 (or similar) which goes back to a controller unit. I'm absolutely NOT sure on this and would welcome anyone who has more input to speak up.
 
J

JohnMcD348

Enthusiast
OK, the intercom was an afterthought. Our house is a single story split plan that's small enough that we can just do things old school (Yell) across the house to communicate if we needed to. Or even better, get up and walk into the room..:D

I'll pop back on here from time to time with other questions. I have alot to learn about now that you have given me a few directions to look.

Are there any magazines or books you would recommend that would give me a little education in this area? Sort of like a Home Audio for Dummies type stuff.

Thanks
 
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