New Denon Home Theater Receiver for whole 4 Room Apartment Audio, with one room having 5.1 sound for Movies

[Chas373]

Hi all, Not sure if this is the place to get some answers/advice, but my 20 year old Flagship Denon receiver bit the dust a year ago. I will be moving into another of the apartments in my building in another month. I would want 4 rooms of Audio. One of those rooms , my Bedroom is centrally located within the 4 rooms. I want to have 5.1 sound there. as the bedroom will have my TV for streaming and movies. I have my PC connected to the TV, and the PC as well as the TV will be ethernet connected. Wiring all 6 speakers for that room won't be a problem. For the living room adjacent to the bedroom I would want a 2.1 speaker set up. but hopefully expandable to 5.1 in the future, should I decide on another TV for that room. The other room that's adjacent to the bedroom I would want just 2 speakers, capable of decent bass on their own with no SW. That room will be a kind of guest room with a futon as well as kind of a den of sorts. Lastly there's the kitchen which I already have two very small Polk Bookshelf speakers which will be fine for sound in the kitchen. MY usage of the system would be split equally between watching/streaming movies and TV and just music listening. I do want to be able to turn the system on and have music playing in all the rooms at once. No need for different music in various rooms. In an ideal world I would be able to easily turn off speakers to any room remotely. Like if I were watching a movie in the bedroom but don't want it played thru the rest of the apartment. For the living room I could run wires but then it would be about a good 20 feet from the receiver to the speakers including the second subwoofer I'll have there. So I am thinking it would be easier for wireless speakers in addition to wireless sub. The guest room/den I could also wire those 2 speakers without much hassle.
I have my existing 5.1 speakers for the bedroom. I will need to buy 2 speakers and sub for the living room. Either wireless or wired. And for the guest room/den I need two bookshelf speakers of good quality.
It's my understanding that Denon 's HEOS speakers are the only ones that the receiver will work with wirelessly. Though I really hesitate buying speakers I have not heard.
First question after the speakers is I am leaning towards the Denon AVR-X4700H 9.2 ch. @ 110 watts per ch will that be enough? Also are there other receiver manufacturers that won't lock you into having to use Denon's HEOS system for the wireless speakers. I have intentions of consulting with Best Buy as they did my TV last year and they seemed somewhat knowledgeable. They have said they would send someone to the house before purchasing to check out the rooms and what would be needed for what I want. I also know they might put the sell on me and I am too old and tired to be fighting it. And too "poor" lol. Honestly the more I think about doing this the more ominous its looking to me. I apologize for how long and complicated a post I have made here and appreciate the people with patience enough to read through and try to give some guidance.

 

[stalag2005]

Several points.

1. Wireless anything is subject to interference. The more devices the bigger the issues. Just make sure you understand this. Any wireless device has the capability of causing problems with communication including wireless house phones, cell phones with wireless capability, tablets/pads with wireless capability etc.

2. I would take a look at Anthem even though expensive. The MRX 740 I own was a massive improvement in capability and ease of setup over the Yamaha RXV663 I owned previously. Although I say this, Yamaha also has very capable AVR's that may be feature rich enough for you to consider as well. The Denon you mention is also worthy of consideration. Arcam and Cambridge Audio are also choices that may if the sale is right be a worthy contender also.

3. RTFM the standards. Not understanding them can result in problems that would not exist if you had done your research. Buy components that match a standard. Buying components on price alone that don't meet the capability you want will bite you badly in the pocket book to rectify.

4. Post your budget for all the things you want to upgrade/buy. RTFM here about people's experiences. That can give you ideas for excellence. Not all expensive stuff is great, not all cheap sucks. Go look at my thread in the loudspeaker section for an idea about that. Even though not on your direct topic, that mindset can help you spend wisely in the right places for you.

5. If you can, audition before purchase. I afterwards on bookshelf speakers eliminated two speakers from contention that I was considering.

 

[Chas373]

Several points.

1. Wireless anything is subject to interference. The more devices the bigger the issues. Just make sure you understand this. Any wireless device has the capability of causing problems with communication including wireless house phones, cell phones with wireless capability, tablets/pads with wireless capability etc.

2. I would take a look at Anthem even though expensive. The MRX 740 I own was a massive improvement in capability and ease of setup over the Yamaha RXV663 I owned previously. Although I say this, Yamaha also has very capable AVR's that may be feature rich enough for you to consider as well. The Denon you mention is also worthy of consideration. Arcam and Cambridge Audio are also choices that may if the sale is right be a worthy contender also.

3. RTFM the standards. Not understanding them can result in problems that would not exist if you had done your research. Buy components that match a standard. Buying components on price alone that don't meet the capability you want will bite you badly in the pocket book to rectify.

4. Post your budget for all the things you want to upgrade/buy. RTFM here about people's experiences. That can give you ideas for excellence. Not all expensive stuff is great, not all cheap sucks. Go look at my thread in the loudspeaker section for an idea about that. Even though not on your direct topic, that mindset can help you spend wisely in the right places for you.

5. If you can, audition before purchase. I afterwards on bookshelf speakers eliminated two speakers from contention that I was considering.

Thanks for the advice Stalag. Right off the bat I'll tell you I just checked out the Anthem Receiver you bought and man it does look sweet. I'm most impressed with the online settings. I can see why you'd say the set up for you was a breeze. However its way more than I wanted to spend. I was planning on the price of the Denon 4700 at $1800. Plus no matter what receiver i get I still have to buy at minimum, 2 decent bookshelf speakers and another powered sub. I'm pretty sure I will go for another Hsu. I have a Hsu sub that I bought at the same time as my Denon 5800 back in '00. And I love the output on the Hsu. I'm seeing I will have to forgo the two additional bookshelf speakers for the den/guest room.
So the budget stands at
Receiver - 1700-1800
Hsu Sub - 800
2 bookshelf speakers - 500 or less

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

For clarification, you're looking for one AVR that will play music into 4 individual rooms (two of which have subs) and that you can enabled/disable playback of the same content into all 4 rooms?

Very best,

 

[Chas373]

Hi,

For clarification, you're looking for one AVR that will play music into 4 individual rooms (two of which have subs) and that you can enabled/disable playback of the same content into all 4 rooms?

Very best,

Yes that's correct but to be more precise 1 room will have 5.1 for movies and streaming. The second room with another sub will just be 2.1 for music for the time being , but If I add a TYV to that room in the future I want 5.1 capability there too. But initially just for music. By the way I feel the way to go is with powered subs. I have a 2o yr old Hsu which still sounded great as of last year til my Denon bit the dust. for the 3rd room the small kitchen, I already have two brand new Polk bookshelf speakers for that purpose. The 4th room I wanted two decent sized bookshelf speakers for that with no sub. But as I am seeing, it's going to be too much $'s for right now. So
1 Receiver to power two 5.1 set ups. but one 5.1 and one 2.1 to start with. 1 set of 2 speakers for the kitchen and the capability of powering another 2.0 set up in the fourth room when I decide to do it. I would only be playing the same content on all. So no watching a movie in one room and listening to music in the next. Of course the ability to shut off all rooms except the one I am in is key.

 

[stalag2005]

Thanks for the advice Stalag. Right off the bat I'll tell you I just checked out the Anthem Receiver you bought and man it does look sweet. I'm most impressed with the online settings. I can see why you'd say the set up for you was a breeze. However its way more than I wanted to spend. I was planning on the price of the Denon 4700 at $1800. Plus no matter what receiver i get I still have to buy at minimum, 2 decent bookshelf speakers and another powered sub. I'm pretty sure I will go for another Hsu. I have a Hsu sub that I bought at the same time as my Denon 5800 back in '00. And I love the output on the Hsu. I'm seeing I will have to forgo the two additional bookshelf speakers for the den/guest room.
So the budget stands at
Receiver - 1700-1800
Hsu Sub - 800
2 bookshelf speakers - 500 or less

I reviewed in a thread I started about replacement of my old Martin Logan LX-16 speakers. Those may be up for sale if the price is right. My idea is $300 for the pair including shipping. They are used but have not been abused. Given that, I was very highly impressed with the Revel M16's at a MSRP of $900. I know that is higher than budget but honestly they beat the KEF R3 and the LS50meta by a good amount to my ear. I have in decades past worked with professional equipment in broadcast engineering. I learned there to appreciate quality.

 

[Chas373]

I reviewed in a thread I started about replacement of my old Martin Logan LX-16 speakers. Those may be up for sale if the price is right. My idea is $300 for the pair including shipping. They are used but have not been abused. Given that, I was very highly impressed with the Revel M16's at a MSRP of $900. I know that is higher than budget but honestly they beat the KEF R3 and the LS50meta by a good amount to my ear. I have in decades past worked with professional equipment in broadcast engineering. I learned there to appreciate quality.

Let me tell you, I have now as my front speakers in the 5.1 room, JBL bookshelf. they are 20 years old I bought them the same time I bought the Denon. 6 1/2 in Woofer, 1 small mid range and a tweeter. with two front ports. I think they are good. I rmember when I was first connecting everything brand new, and hit the power button with the volume turned maybe 3/4. The freaking volume almost threw me off my feet. Took me about 10 seco9nds to get to the receiver to lower it but in that time I noticed the sound was clean with no distortion. That's partly due to the 175 watts of power from the Denon receiver. As if it were a PA. Now as far as Martin Logan that brand along with many others have been, to my mind one of the unreachable (for me) audiophile brands out there. As for yours, please don't be offended but i wouldn't ever purchase something from anyone other than a company over the internet. And a quick check of prices for the "comparable" model of either the 15i or the 35xti puts those beyond my reach. here's another factor, and that's the usual source for music that I use. And that's mp3's on my hard drive. many are at 320 but many are also less resolution. So I already am behind the eight ball so to speak on a good half my regular music stream. This is part of the reason why I have to reel in the spending. Currently dipping into the retirement account. Plus I have to buy living room furniture so trying to have it all but within REASON.

 

[stalag2005]

I get it. Due to my condition of being on the Autism spectrum I had to pull back and clean and make purchases for both furniture and to fix what I have. I spent 8k on custom built furniture to survive me needing to replace broken furniture and replaced failed components on my audio systems I have in my office (2.1 system) and my living room (7.1 system) I spent another 8k. This was not cheap!

 

[MalVeauX]

Hrm,

I'm still having trouble following. So again for clarification, are you saying you want one AVR that will output 5.1 for one room (bedroom), 2.1 in another room (but with the option to expand to 5.1 eventually?), stereo in a 3rd room (kitchen) and stereo in a fourth room. So a single AVR outputting surround and stereo to four rooms simultaneously?

I don't think there's an AVR in this budget range that will do that.

It's possible to get an AVR with zone 2 and zone 3 but they're not powered and require you supply a new source that receives this signal, either another AVR or a discreet amplifier. I'm having a hard time thinking of any AVR that can do 3 zones in addition to the primary. That is, unless you split each zone via a doubler (y cable) and output two zones form one zone. This would still require basically a receiver that does 3 zones total though, and that's at least $1k plus the extra AVR/amplifier per 3 areas in addition.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

I can't even think of an avr that will provide 2.1 in a zone myself, let alone a 5.1 option. Might be more than a one-avr job....

 

[MalVeauX]

I can't even think of an avr that will provide 2.1 in a zone myself, let alone a 5.1 option. Might be more than a one-avr job....

Agreed; though it can be done. The second zone can be 2.X because it's just pre-amp out and so whatever receives that signal can be an AVR set to anything with any number of speakers doing 2 channel stereo or direct or any emulation mode (expanded stereo, etc) and can have a sub with bass management; but that is a second AVR. If done with a standard amplifier, such as a stereo amp, it could be done provided the sub has high-level input/output on the sub's amp plate (and then out to the speakers).

The issue is that it cannot officially expand to 5.1 because it cannot receive the discrete multi-channels, as the zone output is merely stereo. He would need an AVR that zone has zone output based on HDMI basically. I'm having trouble find this outside of very high end AVR's that output several HDMI.

Overall, this is describing a multi-AVR setup. Not something that will fit in the budget listed. Especially if this does not already include all additional AVR/amps and certainly also with speakers/subs that need to be purchased (even with super low cost $25/speakers). The budget seems to be around $3k +/- and I'm not seeing this happening in 4 rooms, with a 5.1 and sub, plus 3 rooms with stereo, for $3k without scraping down to really low end components since at least $1k to $1.5k will go to the primary AVR and another $125 easily per room just for receiving amplifiers ($375~400; so $2k down) leaving $1k for all speakers and subs total across 4 rooms; that would be buying the lowest end speakers, like $27/each Dayton B652 Airs for each room (so 10~12 needed, $350 total there again), leaving less than $600 for the single sub. But, it could be done I suppose.

Very best,

 

[Chas373]

This escalated quickly!! LOL!!! The obvious solution is to consult with a home theater installer. And I just know I will either end up going for my lungs OR will pay a ton and nothing will work as I specify. I know this. I can buy the Denon and get the 5.1 and the 2.1 set up going. If it comes down to it I could always do a small cheap amp for the kitchen speakers or Heos wireless speakers which would be more expensive. Thgen if I were to do a TV in the living room I'd have to look into powering a 5.1 system there. But thats not for right now.

 

[MalVeauX]

This escalated quickly!! LOL!!! The obvious solution is to consult with a home theater installer. And I just know I will either end up going for my lungs OR will pay a ton and nothing will work as I specify. I know this. I can buy the Denon and get the 5.1 and the 2.1 set up going. If it comes down to it I could always do a small cheap amp for the kitchen speakers or Heos wireless speakers which would be more expensive. Thgen if I were to do a TV in the living room I'd have to look into powering a 5.1 system there. But thats not for right now.

There's two ways to a approach this. One is to get an AVR that actually does this (I can't find one that does ALL of this). The other, is to use switches and expansion gear, to take one signal and split it up (but with fairly good quality) and then deal with the line level signal in each room from one primary source.

If you use something like a Denon X3700H, it has zones 2 and 3 pre-amp output. For the primary room with the 5.1 surround, this is where the X3700H would live and setup as 5.1. the X3700H has two extra zones, Zone 2 and Zone 3, which are pre-amp outputs (stereo). You will need to double one of them. For the room you intend to use as the guest room and kitchen, double that one; you would use a Y-cable to split the signal (each channel) from 1 to 2 (resulting in 4 new outputs from 2 channels). So zone two can be output to the room you want to eventually do 2.1 in (for this room, you get a basic amp that will power speakers). For the zones 3 and 4, you use those Y split cables. You'll need an amp for each room to receive this signal (you can probably live with 35~50 watt range amplifiers with plenty of room to spare).

That's $1k~1.2k for the AVR (X3700H or equivalent) plus at least 3 amps (let's just use something basic like an Audiosource AMP100 50 watt stereo amp for $125 each). That's under $1800 USD for a source/amp for all 4 rooms. Buy a few y-cables (RCA male 1x to 2x female specifically). You'll obviously need really long rca cables to go from your pre-amp posts to the amp's input posts (unbalanced RCA).

That's your whole budget. No room for speakers, no room for a sub, unless there's more budget. Your source system alone is going to cost at least $1800 plus cables. This leaves $1200 roughly for speakers and subs for 4 rooms. You'll be scraping the barrel for speakers at this budget points times that many rooms.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL I sure wouldn't count on an installer to have all the answers either (other than ones convenient to sales perhaps). We have some installers offering good advice around here, too. Installation can be complex for what you want. I use older gear for additional rooms and can time them together (or not) via use of Chromecast Audio units fairly nicely, tho.

 

[Kingnoob]

LOL I sure wouldn't count on an installer to have all the answers either (other than ones convenient to sales perhaps). We have some installers offering good advice around here, too. Installation can be complex for what you want. I use older gear for additional rooms and can time them together (or not) via use of Chromecast Audio units fairly nicely, tho.

I don’t see 4 systems from 1 amp happening, he could get powered speakers like Klipch fives or something for his secondary stereo rooms or something...
If you get bestbuy who knows how many thousands they will charge you , they aren’t too good at hifi.