New dedicated HT room; needs substance and style!

[psymonpsyko]

Even with extended warranty, you are taking a higher risk with any refurbished AVR than a brand new AVR and a like-new B-stock.

With my bad experience, I would never buy another refurbished AVR, but I have no issues with a like-new AVR from Amazon.

I bought my AVR from a Sony Center and it was a refurb, got a couple hundred knocked off the price, it was missing all the extras like the auto calibration microphone (i just plugged in my SM 47 and it did the job) and there are times when I do wish I had got it brand new as I have to tinker a little more as some of the components inside have had the capacitors changed and the soldering job on it was terrible.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I bought my AVR from a Sony Center and it was a refurb, got a couple hundred knocked off the price, it was missing all the extras like the auto calibration microphone (i just plugged in my SM 47 and it did the job) and there are times when I do wish I had got it brand new as I have to tinker a little more as some of the components inside have had the capacitors changed and the soldering job on it was terrible.

Yeah, I would never buy another refurbished item again. So I would never recommend one either.

One time I sent in a refurbished Denon to the NJ center under warranty because HDMI was messing up. I got it back a week later. Plugged it in. Got no sound. 30 minutes later, I smelled this burning smell. Then smoke. I have no faith in refurbished. 3 or 4 other Denon refurbish incidents. Loss count. No faith. It was like a Die Hard movie. How can the same thing happen to the same guy?

 

[shadyJ]

On that budget with that room, I would be looking for used stuff. Decent used AVRs are pretty easy to find, keep your eyes open on ebay, craigslist, audiogon.com, and the classified sections at message boards like this one, AVSforum, Hometheatershack, audioasylum and so on. Some brands to keep an eye open for are Pioneer, Harman/Kardon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, and maybe Sony if you find a good deal on one. There are other good electronics manufacturers too.

For speakers, I would try to get higher sensitivity speakers if I could. Honestly you don't have much of a budget, so you might just try going for the front two to start with. You might look at Klipsch speakers, they are very efficient, and you can get some great deals on used ones at the Klipsch forum classifieds, in addition to the above mentioned sources.

It's a bit harder to get a decent used sub, as good ones tend to get sold quickly. For subs, in addition to the resources I have already pointed out, keep an eye out in B-stock sections of subwoofer maker web pages. Here are the pages for Outlaw, Hsu, and SVS. Hsu also has a classifieds area in their forums, sometimes you can find a good deal there. My advice is to wait for a good sub deal, especially on your budget. I would go for a sub from the above mentioned manufacturers, and also Rythmik. Go for a ported 12" design at the very least; a 10" or sealed 12" will not be adequate for your room unless you only listen at very modest volumes. There is a not too bad deal in the Hsu B-stock section, those HB-1 speakers are fairly powerful and might work well for you, and it comes with a ported 12" for just over $1400 shipped, you might give that a look.

 

[Hoodlum]

So, am I gathering that starting with two fronts and filling in the other 3 or 5 with the cheap Pioneers is the way to go? I had always heard that the center speaker was more important than the fronts.

It's pretty obvious I'm an audiophyte.

 

[fuzz092888]

The two fronts are definitely important and with great front L/R you can probably get away with a phantom center for TV and HT, but you'll probably want a great center eventually, especially if you like movies. The center channel carries a lot of dialogue and if you like to listen to all channel stereo music or use the DTS or Dolby settings on the receiver and not stereo or direct mode then a timbre matched center is essential IMO (this usually just means from the same model line as the front L/R).

The surrounds are a bit more of a debate. Some guys say that there isn't enough information coming through the surrounds to make spending a ton go money on them worth it, but if you like to watch a lot of blu-ray movies then I think someday spending some money on good surrounds can be essential.

 

[Hoodlum]

Well, I certainly don't mind updating later. I can also look for higher end stuff locally, but I'm hesitant to buy a receiver used.

Am I better off looking at these types of speakers (not sure about the sub...leaning toward hsu) rather than buying new? Klipsch F-3 Home Theater System w/ Yamaha Receiver

 

[Hoodlum]

And I should clarify: Are the Klipsch F-3 type sets available on Craigslist comparable to the SHO-10s? And how do I find out how "high efficiency" a given speaker is?

 

[zieglj01]

And I should clarify: Are the Klipsch F-3 type sets available on Craigslist comparable to the SHO-10s? And how do I find out how "high efficiency" a given speaker is?

I am a fan of Pioneer speakers - however, they are not right for your
space and the power handling needed. The Klipsch system, that you
are looking at is better suited for your needs. However, it is the entry
level Klipsch series - I for one, would not pay around $1900 for them.
They will play loud - however, that is a weaker Klipsch sub, the sub is
still better than the Pioneer sub. Based on some pass reviews of the
different Klipsch speakers, even the Reference series > they tend to
be about 4 to 5 db off with the sensitivity ratings. The towers seem
to be rated at 97db, you should get around 92db. That is better than
the Pioneers.

I can not speak for the Sho-10's > however, I would not be surprised if
they out-classed the F-series Klipsch.

It is up to you about new, used or refurbish receivers. I have had good
success with used and refurbish.

A lot of people could be happy with that Klipsch system, the decision is
yours to make.

 

[shadyJ]

Efficiency and sensitivity are nearly the same thing with regard to speakers. It is basically how loud a speaker can get for a given amount of energy. It is mostly measured as decibel output for 1 watt at 1 meter. Look at the sensitivity spec in the speaker's specs, if something says "90 db", it means that speaker gets 90 db loud at 1 meter for 1 watt. Most speakers are around 86 to 90. Higher sensitivity speakers would be something like 94 db or above, and that usually (but not always) means they can get very loud without much distortion so they still sound clean. Klipsch is known for making high sensitivity speakers.

As for that craigslist offer, I think that guy is asking too much. The receiver is obsolete, it does not support HDMI for starters. It simply is not worth having. The subwoofer is weak. The surrounds are not ideal. The front stage doesn't look too bad though. I would advise you to skip that deal.

By the way, they Klipsch towers aren't exactly like the SHO 10s, the SHO 10s have more in common with pro-audio type speakers, the kind used in commercial cinemas. I think they would be higher efficiency than the Klipsch F3s, and have a different sound. However, the Klipsch would sound more like them than they would a typical silk dome tweeter speaker. I'm sure those F3 towers would be plenty powerful enough for your application. In your budget, I would look at bookshelf speaker fronts instead of towers, unless you get a really killer deal on some tower speakers. Some Klipsch bookshelf speakers worth looking for are the RB-61 and the RB-81. The center speaker to go with those is the RC-62 or RC-64, but the RC-64 is very expensive.

Hsu is a great way to go for subs, one of the best bang for the buck in my opinion (I have four of them). Outlaw and Rythmik are excellent too. These companies don't always list their B-stock on their websites so it might be worth giving them a call to see what they have available.