New Dedicated home theater suggestions

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The more I read half of everyone says in wall are interior to a bookshelf or tower or standalone sub, has that changed over time with the new equipment? Should I try to avoid in wall? Ive been looking on forums for someone who actually has like a in wall monolith setup but I can't find anyone

Yes the rack and equipment will be outside of the room
I’ve listened to high-end well-designed in-wall (fronts and surrounds) and in-ceiling (Subs + ATMOS) audio systems, and they sound absolutely fantastic.

The key will always be “well-designed” and optimally set up. Of course, no matter what you buy, the key will always be proper setup. Good equipment can still sound bad.

Hopefully others will chime in on this topic.

For a long time, I also believed that in-wall/ceiling systems were simply inferior to box/ in-room systems.

But after listening to excellent in-wall systems, I believe both in-wall and in-room can sound fantastic.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yep. Based on experience, measurements and subjective opinions.
I think @TLS Guy and @gene have shown measurements of their in-wall systems, and they look pretty great.

Do you have any measurements of in-wall systems to show that they perform poorly?

I am not going back and forth to argue this topic. But here is an article from Audioholics.


“In addition to theater applications, many high-end in-wall and in-ceiling speakers work very well for distributed audio or two-channel systems, despite the apparent sacrilege. A well-designed in-wall speaker is capable of providing very accurate reproduction.

So in-wall speakers should not be treated as a pariah, because there are many excellent in-wall speakers available. And remember, the specific application should determine when and where an in-wall speaker is used. There are situations where freestanding speakers are not practical, such as in homes with toddlers (or hockey players), home theaters with acoustically transparent screens, shallow rooms with limited space, rooms where box speakers would destroy the aesthetics, rooms where your wife won’t let you place your Beloved Big Speakers, surround applications, or even a room where you just want to go stealth. Although the stereotypical (blatantly intentional pun alert) in-wall speaker may be a cheesy, 2 lb. plastic 6” 2-way speaker, there are hundreds of really well-designed and great-sounding in-wall speakers. Yes, some in-walls “suck.” But there are plenty of enclosed in-walls that rival freestanding box speakers at the same price point.”


 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've never had avr or amp before . Best I have is a Sonos system on my qled TV, this is really a first for me.

I've heard a b&w system at a store here and a JBL system too
Wow. That’s a lot of money for a “FIRST” home theater.

I think many of us have had multiple home theater systems before buying that “LAST SYSTEM I WILL EVER NEED TO BUY” system. :D

To go from “Never owned an AVR or amp” to spending this kind of money is probably unusual to most of us. :D
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
Please keep in mind this is your space, doesn't impact my life at all, and my statements are just some guy talking on the internet. I can be very opinionated. :D

I'm going to start with some questions that always pop into my mind first, and do matter...
I am assuming this is a dedicated theater room.
What are the room dimensions? Those of us with a more audio-centric mentality (which is not me) may make some more, and frankly better, suggestions for audio than I will. I like good audio, but I'm more practical and don't strive for absolute best sound, but like great value sound for the money. There are some who can spend all of your money and give you better audio than the Monoprice models. There are also those who HATE in-wall speakers, so you gotta pick your poison with those guys.

If the room is large enough, pushing it out a bit, or working behind it will full size tower speakers with a AT screen is a great option. I've done that in a few rooms over the years and it is spectacular for sound. I have used Stewart, but one of my favorites are the models from Seymour AV. They are a fair bit more money than the surprisingly well reviewed models from Silver Ticket. I have used Silver Ticket screens with JVC projectors and they look shockingly good. Proving a good room plus a good projector is far more impactful than a great room and a great screen with a weak projector.

If given the choice between in-walls and towers, I would do towers, and I wouldn't necessarily go with MP speakers. Monoprice is great, but there are some very good and well priced options out there.

I will say, that if you aren't doing the full installation yourself, you may be limited on who you can use for the installation work, and you should expect, at some level, to pay some markup on whatever you get. It's how these places stay in business. Still, you can go in with some speakers, or cut out a 'huge expense' from the system and they will still be happy. Labor is a category that I think is often under-valued in these installs and they make up for it with high margins on equipment sold, which doesn't have as much actual value to you.

So, besides room dimensions, which people here can give you better numbers and options on for filling the room properly and with great quality...
What projector do you intend to use? I'm assuming a JVC, because not JVC is - questionable. Unless you go up to a Christie Griffin. (3-DLP awesomeness)

With a 12'-18' viewing distance, I would consider a 150" diagonal 16:9 screen the sweet spot for size. Front row viewers get excellent immersion for a truly theater-like feel, while back row viewers won't feel so far away from the screen . It also gives enough size without overwhelming most projectors on the market. You don't want the image to be overly dim. I think in the next 5-10 years we will see more projectors come to the market with better peak brightness to help with HDR content, but right now, they aren't as bright as the world would like them to be. But, they are brighter than they were a decade ago.

I will add this now...

Theater colors matter a great deal Dark carpet, dark walls, dark ceiling - GET IT RIGHT! So many really good looking home theaters feature 'light colors', which doesn't match up to any movie theater you've been to in your life. A splash of color is great. But, if you want to add something cool, do so with LED lighting which can be powered off, and won't detract from the experience. Be aware of dark fabric wall coverings like Adamantanium ( http://cine4home.de/test-und-know-how-special-schwarze-heimkino-optimierungen-welche-adamantium-stoffe-eignen-sich-am-besten/ ) which is something I would give serous thought to for best image quality.

Get your lights figured out properly. If you are building a 'dark theater', then to light it up like your family room, which IS something you will want to do at some point, you will want DOUBLE the number of lights of a typical room that is painted white with white ceilings and light colored carpet. You want one row of spotlights over each row of seating, plus general room lighting. Spotlights allow you to turn some lights on in the room for eating, or even reading, while having minimal impact on the screen. Then there should be 'general' room lighting using typical BR30 style flood lights. These will light the room from corner to corner allowing easy entry and exit.
Because the room soaks up light, doubling the room lighting allows for you to crank them up and really see what's going on, but most of the time they will be dimmed to about 50% or so for general entry/exit.
I have some photos of how room lighting impacts things here: http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

It would be super helpful if you could take some photos of your space, as well as make a drawing (if you don't have one already) of the room and the dimensions so that better information can be provided. Please keep in mind I'm a projector guy first. A speaker guy is a distant second for me. So, listen to what others have to say on that subject.

Make sure either 14 gauge or 12 gauge cabling is pulled to all speaker locations. I usually use 14/4 cabling as it is easier to work with, and I can double up wiring which is nice.
Make sure you have conduit, or a reasonably accessible raceway in place to the projector location for HDMI cabling. HDMI didn't exit 20 years ago, at some point, it won't exist in the future. So, plan for the future by putting in 1.5" flexible conduit from the main equipment location.
Get the equipment out of the room and use a good universal remote to run the show. The heat and noise of equipment should be as removed from the room as possible.

I will think of other things that are worth throwing into the mix before drywall goes up, but those are the first items. I will say that people not doing the lighting right is a huge pet peeve of mine. Wall sconces and LED strip highlights are awesome, but not important to the the room, they are the flair to make it look cool.

FINAL NOTE: I did not read anyone else's responses before I wrote this. There are good recommendations (IMO) about brands like Triad which seem to be well respected for an in-wall speaker that is in a back box to help get audio quality as good as possible. While going to towers up front would be my preference, it's not always possible, and sticking with in-walls for surrounds and ceilings often makes a TON of sense because having those stick out into a room can be problematic in different spaces. So, above recommendations and added information is all spot on.

Give us room dimensions, height, width, depth, along with a few drawings. And tell me what projector you're looking at.
Thanks for the response:

Planning to do dark gray walls and a dark gray carpet, probably black ceiling. Thanks for the fabric wall link!

Room is 14x24x9' ceiling - that's without any false walls, framing, or drywall

Unfortunately I don't have a JVC, I got a epson ls12000 since I got a pretty good price on it, but the clarity and brightness has been great

I'm going to have a ton of lights, bullet lights around the tray, recessed throughout and sconces on the wall all on different switches.

Was thinking a control 4 hub for the remote control

Attached is the room drawing and electrical plan, it's a little dated but mostly there.

Screenshot_20230131_162249_Gmail.jpg
20230112_162155.jpg
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
Wow. That’s a lot of money for a “FIRST” home theater.

I think many of us have had multiple home theater systems before buying that “LAST SYSTEM I WILL EVER NEED TO BUY” system. :D

To go from “Never owned an AVR or amp” to spending this kind of money is probably unusual to most of us. :D

Ah fair point! I literally went from a tiny townhouse to a huge house that I'll probably die in, was lucky to have a dedicated space for a theater and that's why it's my first! Which is why I'm so uniformed, but all these responses are super helpful
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
I’ve listened to high-end well-designed in-wall (fronts and surrounds) and in-ceiling (Subs + ATMOS) audio systems, and they sound absolutely fantastic.

The key will always be “well-designed” and optimally set up. Of course, no matter what you buy, the key will always be proper setup. Good equipment can still sound bad.

Hopefully others will chime in on this topic.

For a long time, I also believed that in-wall/ceiling systems were simply inferior to box/ in-room systems.

But after listening to excellent in-wall systems, I believe both in-wall and in-room can sound fantastic.

That's great to hear, I was stressing about doing all box speakers, but I think at least the surrounds can be in wall, the front speakers in still on the fence - happy to take any suggestions!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Room is 14x24x9' ceiling…I got a epson ls12000 since I got a pretty good price on it, but the clarity and brightness has been great
Congrats! I own an Epson PJ also, as do many people. Epson is said to be the “number 1 seller in projectors” worldwide for a good reason.

You don’t have to spend a fortune for great quality and performance.

That’s my motto for almost everything in life. :D

If I were buying an AVR, I would personally get a Yamaha RX-A8A for 11.2CH. Yamaha is said to be the “biggest sound company in the world”. 5YR warranty. Good customer support.

Others will also recommend AVR from Denon and Marantz. Everyone has their own personal favorite.
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
Congrats! I own an Epson PJ also, as do many people. Epson is said to be the “number 1 seller in projectors” worldwide for a good reason.

You don’t have to spend a fortune for great quality and performance.

That’s my motto for almost everything in life. :D

If I were buying an AVR, I would personally get a Yamaha RX-A8A for 11.2CH. Yamaha is said to be the “biggest sound company in the world”. 5YR warranty. Good customer support.

Others will also recommend AVR from Denon and Marantz. Everyone has their own personal favorite.
Awesome, thanks - still trying to research everything, I'll post my list so far separately
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
Ok guys so far here is what I'm thinking, hopefully there aren't any blaring issues, if so please let me know!

Also my justification for these choices:
1) seems like a ton of performance for price
2) I want to eventually upgrade the screen to a Stewart or something else but this one I think will work for a while
3) I want to eventually get a really nice set of front speakers and center, like perlisten level or something else, this way I don't spend a ton right now. Also when I upgrade I'm thinking I can move the two front in walls to front side speakers and have a 13.2.4 setup when I buy the really nice speakers in the future.


AmpliferMonolith by Monoprice M8250x 8x200 Watts Per Channel Class-D Multi-Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs Hypex NC502MP

AmplifierMonolith by Monoprice 5x200 Watts Per Channel Multi-Channel Home

Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs
ProcessorAnthem AVM-70

Monolith by Monoprice 13in THX Certified Ultra 2000-Watt Powered Subwoofer (2 of them)

Monolith by Monoprice THX-465IW THX
Certified Ultra 3-Way In-Wall Speaker (7 of them including the front speakers)

RSL C34E MKII (4 of them)

"STR-169150-WVS Silver Ticket, 150"" Diagonal, 16:9 Cinema Format, 4K Ultra HD & HDR Ready, HDTV (6 Piece Fixed Frame) Projector Screen, WVS Woven Acoustic Material"
 
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Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
Congrats! I own an Epson PJ also, as do many people. Epson is said to be the “number 1 seller in projectors” worldwide for a good reason.

You don’t have to spend a fortune for great quality and performance.

That’s my motto for almost everything in life. :D

If I were buying an AVR, I would personally get a Yamaha RX-A8A for 11.2CH. Yamaha is said to be the “biggest sound company in the world”. 5YR warranty. Good customer support.

Others will also recommend AVR from Denon and Marantz. Everyone has their own personal favorite.
Yeah good brand Yamaha I got two of them one someone gave me in mint condition free can’t remember who a low tier model , and the second I bought used $50 with a 5.1 satellites system it was a double center (one didn’t work ) pre hdmi model.. literally old as dirt and still runs fine I was using it for a radio . I don’t have any new fancy avrs or anything 9ch+ . My best avr is onkyo under $700 on sale model 10-12 years old.
 
CB22

CB22

Senior Audioholic
First, thats awesome congrats on the dedicated HT room. Living the dream!

AmpliferMonolith by Monoprice M8250x 8x200 Watts Per Channel Class-D Multi-Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs Hypex NC502MP

AmplifierMonolith by Monoprice 5x200 Watts Per Channel Multi-Channel Home

Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs
ProcessorAnthem AVM-70
Personally, I'd go with the Marantz cinema 50 and shave some $ off your electronics budget. It has pre outs so you can always add external amplification later. As an Anthem ower, their room correction is great but their firmware is not perfect. I would get an all-on-one AVR and save yourself $1700 and put that into your speaker budget. When I first got into this I thought having the best AVR would make a big difference in sound quality turns out the difference is negligible. If you have your heart set on good electronics get the Monoprice 5x200, it won't be old tech in 5 years. Essentially amplifier and speaker technology don't change nearly as fast a video and video processors.

Monolith by Monoprice THX-465IW THX
You said later on you consider upgrading to some other "better" front three speakers. I'd say bite the bullet now and get a better front three. Get them now and save yourself $2100 on the front three. I would get the cheaper Monoprice THX-365IW for your surrounds. I think having a tower for effects speakers is overkill and save some $ here.

As for your front three I'd check out:

1. the Polk Legend series.
I own the L-400. I got it solely based on a recommendation by ShadyJ here on AH and love it. If I have a dedicated HT room one day I would seriously consider getting the L-800s to live in there next to my L-400. The L-800 are interesting speakers because you can enable the SDA effect that is supposed to widen the soundstage. Looks like you have the space to make this work. If you had the L-800s you may not need subwoofers.

2. https://arendalsound.com/
There are THX Ultra certified and very highly rated on AH. However, their center is a 2-way center and not a 3 way.

3. If you will do any x2 channel listing in there look at the BMR HT tower and look super sexy. Not THX-rated but very good speakers for the money. There could probably be used studio monitors. Dennis, the ower of the company is planning on desiging a center channel for this. Later on this year. This is probably your best bang for buck speaker IMO.


If I were in your situation with your budget, I'd the the following for a soely HT room:
Marantz cinema 50 - $2500
x1 Polk L-400 + x2 Polk L800s - $6900
x1 HUS VTF - $1100 - I have a thing for HSU. The best bass I've head from a sub.
x4 Monoprice THX-365IW - $1400
x4 RSL C34E MKII - $600

12/13k for some killer sound and the rest for video.
 
M

mx416

Audioholic
Just for fun, something like the monitor audio CP in-wall series might be fun. They come with an enclosed back at a price that seems to be within budget.

Surrounds

fronts if you still want in-wall
 
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