New Centre Sounds Muffled

[m1ke068]

Hi from a newbie.
Yesterday, I purchased a new Klipsch RC 52 Centre to replace my very old sony SS -CN190 Centre. My fronts are 30 year old cantons.
The speaker wire I am running is a very thin guage and i will be installing heavy gauge wire this week.
The problem is, while this speaker sounded very bright and accurate in the store it is extremely muffled and the bass overpowering in my setup. Even when turniing down the centre channel on my reciever to - 10dB it is still not good.
Please respond to this query, as i am being pressured from a significant other to take it back.
Thanks
Mike.

 

[jaxvon]

There are many factors at play here. At which store did you demo the speaker? And how far away were you? Was it set up like a real system, or was it nearfield? I'm surprised that a Klipsch would sound muffled, their horn tweeters often make the treble frequencies all too noticable. If you can't figure out any settings or acoustical issues that might be causing the problem, then I would at least try to exchange it for another one to see if yours was defective.

 

[m1ke068]

Thanks for the reply.
I will wait until i have recieved my Klipsch ref series fronts, and installed decent wire. Then I am planning on getting a new pioneer 1016VTX reciever. This is will all happen in the next week. Hopefully the sound will improve. If it doesnt then i will exchange the centre for another of the same and see what happens.
Also I have a lot to learn about crossover bass etc to my sub.
But I am still looking for any advice out there!

 

[mtrycrafts]

If it doesnt then i will exchange the centre for another of the same and see what happens.
!

In the meantime, if you have time, set that speaker up as one of your other front speakers and see how it sounds. If no change, take it back and have them play it again for you and see. I cannot believe that it was damaged in transit to your house.

 

[Mike Dzurko]

"Even when turniing down the centre channel on my reciever to - 10dB it is still not good."

Mike:

The more you turn the center down, the more it will sound muffled. Have you calibrated all the channels to the same loudness?

 

[GreenJelly]

Do they have Bi-Connects?

 

[m1ke068]

The reason i have turned it down is because it is overpowering my fronts. On my old centre, i had a nice even sound between all speakers (although the quality was not the best) With my new Klipsch, all i can hear is the centre and the sound from my fronts is barely noticable.
However yesterday I played with the setup for quite a while using the THX setup available on many DVD's, and managed to improve the sound considerably. But...
Still too much bass coming from the centre, and;
still overpowering my 2 front speakers. So now the majority of my sound is coming from the centre with some additional sound from my rears. While i realise that approx 70% of my sound does come from the centre, it seems as if i am missing something from my 2 front speakers.
Also my settings are (if this helps):
Centre: Small
Fronts: Large
Rears: Small.

Please keep the replys coming as I am still a little concerned.
Thanks
Mike.

 

[jcPanny]

Center channel balance

Now it sounds like the center channel is too loud, not muffled. This is likely due to the high efficiency of your new Klipsch speaker as compared to your old mains. When you get the new mains, They should ballance out much closer to the 0dB level on your receiver. For the next week, you might be able to boost the mains to +10dB with the center at -10dB to compensate.

 

[m1ke068]

Thank you for that...
that is what i have been suspecting, yet hesitant to voice.
Having said that, my reciever (another part of the story) does not allow me to adjust the front speaker settings.
Mike.

 

[markw]

Thank you for that...
that is what i have been suspecting, yet hesitant to voice.
Having said that, my reciever (another part of the story) does not allow me to adjust the front speaker settings.
Mike.

You can't adjust the level of the front center? Strange...

But, it seems to me you're learing, the hard way, about the need for timbre matched front speakers. Oddsare it'll all work out when you get your matching mains. In the meantime, I've never seen a HT receiver that didn't allow level adjustments on all speakers. You might want to check the manual.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thank you for that...
that is what i have been suspecting, yet hesitant to voice.
Having said that, my reciever (another part of the story) does not allow me to adjust the front speaker settings.
Mike.

Now we are getting someplace

What receiver do you have now? If it doesn't have level controls to trim all channels properly, it must be old.
With that new receiver, an spl meter, you should be able to level match all your channels. Don't rely on your ears to match levels.

 

[GreenJelly]

No one payed attention to my Dual connect question... he may have the woofers plugged in and not the tweeters...

Just a thought... Its a mistake I made (doh)

Mike

 

[mtrycrafts]

No one payed attention to my Dual connect question... he may have the woofers plugged in and not the tweeters...

Just a thought... Its a mistake I made (doh)

Mike

Yes, I noticed your question of this with no response. He missed it. Ask him directly posting to him. But it seems that he has speaker sensitivity mismatch on a gross scale, like a power of 10?

 

[m1ke068]

I have a Technics SA DX940, which definitly has only rudimentary setup. For example the subwoofer cuttoff settings are 100, 150 and 200 Hz. with not even 80 as an option (which i believe is the industry norm).
I believe that the intent with the speaker level settings is that they want to match the normal settings of the fronts, so everything is adjusted in reference to a never changing front setting. Which worked adequatley for a more basic speaker model, but now i am upgrading, these basic setup controls are no longer good for the job.

 

[jonnythan]

No one payed attention to my Dual connect question... he may have the woofers plugged in and not the tweeters...

Just a thought... Its a mistake I made (doh)

Mike

I'm pretty sure that speaker only has a single input terminal.

 

[m1ke068]

that is correct. one terminal.

 

[GreenJelly]

I doubt that your speakers (not sub) have a crossover to cutt off the lowend. Therefor they require a crossover to provide a match with your subwoofer, and to free your woofers from the extreme stress usually associated with very low end sound (which requires small speakers to move a great deal in distance).

As for an "industrial norm" their is no such thing. This is good because our subs, listening environment, and our speakers all must match up... however this is not a single situation fits all.

I am sorry to hear that you DONT have a any range selection between 50hz-100hz. This is usually where we put it. However, if you probably have a crossover on your AV receiver for the Subwoofer. So you can turn the crossover on your Sub, all the way up, then select it through your AV receiver, through tests and or THX disc, etc... then turn the crossover on the Sub as close to (but above) the setting on the AV receiver.

You need a receiver that has the ability to adjust these values. From the understanding I am getting out of this, is that you have a low cost A/V receiver.

You just purchased a higher end speaker, that wants power... yet your receiver is cutting out on you... Thats what I suspect is happening, though its very odd that you are loosing your tweaters and not your low end.

I would take the speakers back, and have them test it out on their higher end receivers. I suspect you have a problem with the speakers.

 

[m1ke068]

I agree that my speaker is pretty much more so "high end" compared to my old canton's. Also I grudgingly admit that my reciever, although a great thing when i first purchased it, has seen its better days, and as previously mentioned I will be purchasing a new unit this holidays. Therefore i hope that all will be resolved soon.
I think the comment that I am learning about timbre effect the hard way pretty much sums up what is actually going on. I'm a pretty stubborn old guy, and the last thing i will do is to be in a rush to doubt the integrity of a newly purchased item.
If after all is said and done, and after all my buying and meddling and putzing around, then if I am still not getting the sound I expect to hear, then i will bring the unit in and try another (same model).
Which brings me to my next point / question:- Can I (or is it wise) to put my old Canton front bookshelf speakers to the back to replace my surround speakers. Or should i buy new horn type Klipsch bookshelfs.
Thanks for all the replies by the way...all your comments are definitly appreciated.
mike.

 

[AVRat]

Before we move on, it may be helpful to know which receiver and front speakers you are considering. The old Cantons for surrounds may work, only time and experimentation will tell.

 

[m1ke068]

Well i pick up my new front Klipsch RF 15's today, so lets see how i make out. I will of course post my results today, and next week after sutible breaking in time.
The reciever I am considering is either a Pioneer VSX-816-K or (if the price comes down by boxing day) the Pioneer VSX-1016-TXVK.

Mike.