Netflix DVD-by-Mail Becomes Quickster

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Netflix lost 1 million subscribers due to this fiasco. They still have 24 million.

If BB comes out with online disc + in-store + streaming @ a lower price than Netflix disc + streaming, Netflix will lose the remaining 24 million.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Make no surprise then some people would just say F-This and pay for convenience of "no-so-legal" content without restrictions, not bound by dog-$hit slow internet (streaming) in the evenings prime time nor late fees or hollywood artificial "windows" or commercials during PAID cable channels or hulu

edit: Forgot to mention overly-aggressive compression....

 

[sholling]

Netflix lost 1 million subscribers due to this fiasco. They still have 24 million. While it is more than they expected to lose, they didn't lose a big chunk in the grand scheme of things. It isn't arrogance, it is business. They said TWO years ago that they wanted to do away with physical media and they did, or at least spun it off. Yes, that means it now costs more unfortunately.

It's free country and they have every right to commit corporate suicide should they choose and the stockholders have every right to rebel and replace and/or sue the management team . What's amusing is that they are essentially abandoning (over time) the successful side of the business to concentrate on a market they are likely to eventually lose to Walmart and Amazon. Again, it's a free country but they could have handled it a whole lot better and rather than angering their customers they could and should have thought through their long-term goals and sold them gently. Instead they first shove streaming down the throats of customers with no interest in streaming, then jack up prices while splitting services, and finally some genius decides it would be really cool to make the service harder to use. A bit of common sense and salesmanship (instead of ham-handed dictates) and they could have reached their goals without destroying customer good will. In other words their actions of the last few years are future textbook example how to destroy the loyalty of once fiercely loyal customers.

What they have done is create a golden opportunity for Amazon's and Walmart's streaming services but only if they move quickly to capitalize on the anger. Long term I expect those two to be the ones to beat because they're the only two companies with the leverage to dictate terms to the studios. Walmart would have no problem pulling an uncooperative studio's products from their shelves until they see the light on streaming licensing.

Personally I'm far more interested in Blu-Ray discs than compressed streams and hopefully this will mean that Netflix/Qwikster will no longer have a 30 day delay on new releases. If that continues I may just give BB-online a try.

 

[majorloser]

Netflix account closed yesterday.

 

[j_garcia]

It's free country and they have every right to commit corporate suicide should they choose and the stockholders have every right to rebel and replace and/or sue the management team . What's amusing is that they are essentially abandoning (over time) the successful side of the business to concentrate on a market they are likely to eventually lose to Walmart and Amazon.

You mean like the last time Walmart tried to compete with Netflix and ended up turning the business over to Netflix because they couldn't do it profitably?

If BB comes out with online disc + in-store + streaming @ a lower price than Netflix disc + streaming, Netflix will lose the remaining 24 million.

I HIGHLY doubt that will happen, even with backing from Dish. If anything, Dish will strip BB down and use the parts it wants for itself and BB will go Bye-Bye. BB's components compete with Dish, so either they are trying to get into the business or they are going to kill it and utilize the assets for their own services. It is possible BB will continue, but I doubt it will be the same thing it is today.

IN STORE is no longer a factor. There are like 10 stores in my area and we have one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country. That just isn't going to work. Do you think that 10 stores for 4 million people is a recipe for success? I'll stick with Redbox for now. Selection is limited, but I have always been able to find something to watch from them just like Netflix.

I use Amazon Prime also. So far it is fine, but the selection still kind of blows. I am not defending Netflix either. I don't like what they did, but I also don't see the benefit in b1tching about it either. Those that were really bothered by it left. Done. That simple, but as you can see by the "apology" it didn't change anything.

 

[sholling]

You mean like the last time Walmart tried to compete with Netflix and ended up turning the business over to Netflix because they couldn't do it profitably?

It looks like "times are a changing" . Walmart (with VUDU) now has infrastructure in place that's based what many call the best PPV streaming video service. That VUDU acquisition also gives Walmart existing hardware and software clients that are already in customers hands or could be cheaply and of course Walmart has the leverage with TV and Blu-Ray manufacturers to ensure that all of their network ready devices have a VUDU applet. Walmart already has the experience of running some huge server farms and combined with VUDU streaming expertise they have almost everything they need to base a subscription service on.

Link

Eighteen months after buying online movie service Vudu, big box retailer Walmart has a bonafide hit on its hands.

According to a recent report from IHS Screen Digest Media Research, Vudu has eclipsed both Amazon and the Sony PlayStation Store in the U.S. online movie store rankings.

Vudu’s biggest differentiator against the competition, however, is its quality. As I said back in February, “from a quality standpoint, Vudu is unmatched. HDX rentals really blow the boundaries of what one expects from a streaming service.”

This remains true. Vudu also consistently has one of the strongest libraries of first-run and new release content. And, like Netflix, Vudu has benefited from working with lots of different device makers to support its service.

As for BB it seems to me that Netflix's loss of 1-2+ million customers is likely to translate into 1-2 million more BlockBuster online customers. That's $15,000,000-30,000,000/mo in potential additional gross revenues. That's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Netflix lost 1 million subscribers due to this fiasco. They still have 24 million. While it is more than they expected to lose, they didn't lose a big chunk in the grand scheme of things. It isn't arrogance, it is business. They said TWO years ago that they wanted to do away with physical media and they did, or at least spun it off. Yes, that means it now costs more unfortunately.

Worth saying that a report out today said that as many as 25% of Netflix's user base plans to drop them and the stop lost another 10% today.

Can't find the related survey which was conducted, so don't shoot me if the numbers are off a bit, but I heard it on the news on the way home today.

The huge price increase may have been a fact of reality for their customer base, but this is something entirely different and the full ramifications are yet to be known.

Since I can currently get about 50 movies a month if I want to I have no real reason to stream or buy into any of this garbage as it is now. I really did consider going to them for a while when the BB bankruptcy was going on, but I'm glad I stayed.

 

[j_garcia]

Netflix shot themselves in the foot, there is no dobut about that. Yes, I am sure more will still leave and that will translate into more business for other services. It still won't level the playing field.

It looks like "times are a changing" . Walmart (with VUDU) now has infrastructure in place that's based what many call the best PPV streaming video service. That VUDU acquisition also gives Walmart existing hardware and software clients that are already in customers hands or could be cheaply and of course Walmart has the leverage with TV and Blu-Ray manufacturers to ensure that all of their network ready devices have a VUDU applet. Walmart already has the experience of running some huge server farms and combined with VUDU streaming expertise they have almost everything they need to base a subscription service on.

The quality is there, but unless they lower the price, it doesn't do them any good. Netflix is still currently cheaper and has a MUCH larger selection, and their selection still isn't that great either.

Directly from your link also:

Vudu could become Wal-Mart’s biggest Internet-related success to date‚ although that doesn’t say much.

It also mentions the fact that Vudu for some reason knows not make any mention of the fact that they are owned by Walmart.

 

[sholling]

Worth saying that a report out today said that as many as 25% of Netflix's user base plans to drop them

If that 25% number holds true and Netflix loses 6M customers then BlockBuster should be doing everything possible to snatch them up. That's close to $100M/mo ($1.2B/yr) in potential sales. If Dish has half a brain they'll be running a massive nation wide "try us now for free and switch" ads by this weekend. Realistically with a bit of effort they could potentially snag as many as half of Netflix's subscribers because of the caviler way that Netflix handled this mess.

I'm going to do the 30day free trial with BlockBuster and see how I like it.

 

[j_garcia]

If that 25% number holds true and Netflix loses 6M customers then BlockBuster should be doing everything possible to snatch them up. That's close to $100M/mo ($1.2B/yr) in potential sales. If Dish has half a brain they'll be running a massive nation wide "try us now for free and switch" ads by this weekend. Realistically with a bit of effort they could potentially snag as many as half of Netflix's subscribers because of the caviler way that Netflix handled this mess.

Redbox hasn't seemed to capitalize on it yet either, and they were the obvious one to do it since they have had the largest gains of anyone against Netflix's disc based business. I said it before also, Redbox said they were looking at adding streaming as well, so don't be surprised if that shows up in the near future also.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Another point of view - good read
http://www.baekdal.com/opinion/no-netflix-got-it-right/

 

[Hocky]

Another point of view - good read
http://www.baekdal.com/opinion/no-netflix-got-it-right/

Streaming can't be a replacement for me until the quality doesn't suck. What is the point of having $30k in HT gear to watch heavily compressed video and listen to terrible SQ?

 

[j_garcia]

Streaming can't be a replacement for me until the quality doesn't suck. What is the point of having $30k in HT gear to watch heavily compressed video and listen to terrible SQ?

When exactly did you try it last? Netflix streams 720p/1080i and 5.1 audio (though not lossless). The quality is good, not great. Still better than DVD in most cases, but not BD level for sure...but for $8/month you aren't paying for BD quality.

If you have a $30K system, I would hope you had internet other than dial up

I don't stream movies that I want the full experience for - LOTR, SW, Tron Legacy, etc... I buy the BDs for that. I stream stuff that isn't that important to me, like TV shows, or movies that I don't need to own and/or want to check out to see if I want to buy it.

 

[Hocky]

When exactly did you try it last? Netflix streams 720p/1080i and 5.1 audio (though not lossless). The quality is good, not great. Still better than DVD in most cases, but not BD level for sure...but for $8/month you aren't paying for BD quality.

If you have a $30K system, I would hope you had internet other than dial up

I use it from time to time and they're definitely not even DVD quality. 720p/1080i/p mean nothing in regards to the quality of the video. The 2.0 and 5.1 is absolutely poor. I will use it for stuff that I don't really care to see, but will watch if I have nothing to do.

 

[j_garcia]

I use it from time to time and they're definitely not even DVD quality. 720p/1080i/p mean nothing in regards to the quality of the video. The 2.0 and 5.1 is absolutely poor. I will use it for stuff that I don't really care to see, but will watch if I have nothing to do.

I have noticed that the older stuff is definitely lower quality. Much of the newer stuff, mainly TV shows, the quality is quite good - the overall quality is entirely dependent on your internet speed though - the worse your connection speed, the worse your video. Not all movies are 5.1 for streaming yet, so that is an issue of course. "Absolutely poor" means you haven't watched something with good audio yet, and the fact that you only do it occasionally would likely be why. The number of movies that have 5.1 currently IS very small though.

The device makes a BIG difference too. I have my BD-65 and a PS3 in my second system. The BD-65's quality is pretty poor and it doesn't have very good buffering, meaning I get pauses while watching on it. The PS3 however streams about 10X better; no pauses and video quality is much better as a result likely due to the simple fact that the PS3 can buffer much better. I got tired of the pauses which is why I installed the PS3 in that system - to see if it was the player or the internet speed. It was the player, and I was actually quite surprised at how much better the PS3 handled it. If you are streaming to a typical player or TV, you aren't comparing apples to oranges.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm going to do the 30day free trial with BlockBuster and see how I like it.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now w/ BB.

Got The Eagle online last Wednesday, then traded for Hanna in-store, then got Dexter S5D2, then today traded for XMen First Class in-store.

If BB adds streaming for free, I would probably drop Netflix too.

 

[Hocky]

I have an oppo 93 and a ps3 and bandwidth is not an issue. But you're right, I don't watch the TV shows.

 

[sholling]

Netflix shot themselves in the foot, there is no dobut about that. Yes, I am sure more will still leave and that will translate into more business for other services. It still won't level the playing field.

You could be right I just don't know and my crystal ball seems a bit foggy. The biggest threat to the whole streaming concept is ISP caps. I'm fortunate in that I have FIOS TV and internet (35Mb/35Mb) and Verizon is committed to no caps. But AT&T DSL customers have a 150GB/mo cap and those of many US cable companies are even lower, often much lower - be they implicit caps or a secret cap. Netflix already had to develop a bit lower quality streaming product for Canadians facing very restrictive caps and I'll be shocked if US cable and DSL ISPs don't lower their caps to 50ish GB/mo over time. I'm pretty sure concern over caps is why Amazon and Walmart haven't waded deeper into the streaming video business.

The quality is there, but unless they lower the price, it doesn't do them any good. Netflix is still currently cheaper and has a MUCH larger selection, and their selection still isn't that great either.

Right now VUDU is competing with cable video on demand but that's now. I'll be shocked if they don't eventually offer a Netflix like older films for a set monthly price type of service.

It also mentions the fact that Vudu for some reason knows not make any mention of the fact that they are owned by Walmart.

Why would they? However they do have a link on Walmart.com.

Redbox hasn't seemed to capitalize on it yet either, and they were the obvious one to do it since they have had the largest gains of anyone against Netflix's disc based business. I said it before also, Redbox said they were looking at adding streaming as well, so don't be surprised if that shows up in the near future also.

I've rarely ever given Redbox a second thought. I think it's a decent business model for the I'm going to watch it tonight demographic but I don't want to have to stop and pick up a video and I don't want to have a due date. I like a video to arrive by mail and wait on the shelf until I have time to get to it.

I actually like the streaming concept for old movies and TV shows and would pay a very small monthly fee for just that sort of service. I'm just ready to give up Blu-Ray quality for new movies and streaming older movies just isn't something that I'd use often. I occasionally enjoy a classic TV show but I'm slowly adding DVD box sets like The Avengers: The Complete Emma Peel Megaset and Secret Agent and a few others as they go on sale. I have an ebay bid in on another favorite classic series (DVD) right now and I buy favorite old movies as soon as the Blu-Rays get dirt cheap.

Bottom line for me I was a very happy 3 BD at a time $21/mo Netflix customer. I was a much less happy 2 BD at a time plus streaming I hardly ever used for $17/mo customer but decided to stay. Now with the website split and the ham-fisted way this was shoved down out throats I'm seriously considering switching. What's wrong with a business plan that encourages customers to reduce their monthly spend or even leave for greener pastures? Do they teach that at Stanford? Anyway I'm all signed up with BB for a 30 day free trial and I'll decide over the next few weeks whether I'm a Netflix customer or a BB-Online customer.

 

[sholling]

Another point of view - good read
http://www.baekdal.com/opinion/no-netflix-got-it-right/

These business pundits are utterly clueless about the technology and what ISP caps are likely going to do to the streaming industry. And that leaves out the limited availability of 3+ megabit broadband in much of the country. I guess when you live in a megalopolis you start forgetting that not everyone does.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now w/ BB.

Got The Eagle online last Wednesday, then traded for Hanna in-store, then got Dexter S5D2, then today traded for XMen First Class in-store.

If BB adds streaming for free, I would probably drop Netflix too.

Unfortunately our BB closed sometime ago and the nearest B&M is 35 miles. What can I say I live in a small town 20 miles from the nearest freeway - and love it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...What can I say I live in a small town 20 miles from the nearest freeway - and love it.

Life is a trade-off of things, right? Good points and bad points.