Netflix Cuts 4k bitrate in half!

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Not having 4k it doesn't matter particularly to me, but neither does it surprise me when it comes to streaming/bandwidth issues. We'll see how good a job their encoding does but I wouldn't be surprised that those more into the video side of things will find problems with such....
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Promises, promises........ :D


Is this what subscribers are paying for?
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
I noticed that on my fire stick/Mi box 1080p tv as well. That really sucks I kept looking at my WiFi signal and it was great. Damn Netflix.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I think some of you are judging the technology as ugly when you haven't sampled it yet. Netflix is trading additional computing cost (CPU time and memory usage) for network cost (bandwidth requirements). This is just a more sophisticated video codec. Video codecs are not my field by any stretch, but it looks pretty interesting. I'm a Netflix 4K subscriber, so I am curious about what the higher monthly fee is getting us.

 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
... I'm a Netflix 4K subscriber, so I am curious about what the higher monthly fee is getting us.

...
Have they started using this yet? Is the monthly fee more than the previous 4K fee? By how much?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Have they started using this yet? Is the monthly fee more than the previous 4K fee? By how much?
We pay $16/month + sales tax for the Netflix 4K subscription. Netflix increases their rates every year or so, but haven't announced an increase yet. I don't know if they've started using the new video codec yet, but given the savings to them in per-stream bandwidth and lower storage & memory costs in their streaming hierarchy I can't believe they haven't already implemented it for the most popular videos, if not everything in 4K. Some people also have flaky DSL internet connections which might increase their perceived satisfaction with the lower bitrate requirements of the new codec.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Well, if they can provide 4K at similar quality with half the bitrate, could they not be trying to achieve 8K @60hz in the future at the current rate. If not 8K, then perhaps 4K @120hz? Soon enough the PS5 and XBOX Series X will be here and there are currently a very few TVs and AVRs that can handle it. Just a guess. Besides, there are worse bits to cut in half and expect the same quality.;)
 
diskreet

diskreet

Audioholic
It's important for everyone to not confuse bitrate with quality. Codecs are algorithms to encode and decode the information of the media (information being the content itself, not the data carrying it. See definition 1.b. here). An efficient codec can and will communicate the same information using less data, less bits, than an inefficient codec. Layer in limitations on what a human can perceive and a human could get the same information from two vastly different codecs with vastly different bitrates.

When I studied image and video codecs in undergrad (MPEG-4/H264-era) they were still quite primitive. As computers and global networks became more advanced, and machine learning took hold, there's clearly massive room for improvement. I'm not surprised Netflix is confident they can continue to reduce bitrate without losing any information.


Everyone gets up in arms and complains when this happens, but Netflix was at one point 15% of all internet traffic. They don't want to keep spending more on infrastructure linearly with subscriber usage. For them, it makes sense to look at ways to scale up their services without scaling up their expensive infrastructure any more.

So they are doing the right thing; they are aggressively pursuing bitrate reductions that don't compromise quality. If they succeed, it enables them to serve more content, to more customers, with more desirable features (4k or higher, HDR, high-def audio fomats, etc.). If not, the market will react appropriately.
 
Teetertotter?

Teetertotter?

Senior Audioholic
Is there really that much 4K movie content that is worth viewing???? Many movies are in 1080p and will your TV do just fine to upscale to 4K or any 1080i??? Some TV's have good upscaling and others not, which they don't list their upscaling spec's.
 
diskreet

diskreet

Audioholic
Is there really that much 4K movie content that is worth viewing???? Many movies are in 1080p and will your TV do just fine to upscale to 4K or any 1080i??? Some TV's have good upscaling and others not, which they don't list their upscaling spec's.
On streaming services yes. It's been the standard for a few years now to shoot in at least 4K, so content is plentiful. A 4K show streamed in high quality really does look amazing on a large enough screen.

You have a point though. The Nvidia Shield in particular is well known for incredible 4K upscaling. And for the vast majority of people their TV is too small to truly benefit from the 4K content. Most of us here probably could enjoy it, but I'd expect the average consumer to see no real benefit in their homes. I think of 4K like Atmos - it's awesome for enthusiasts and people willing to invest in quality gear, but doesn't make a big difference to the poorly placed soundbar crowd.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
On streaming services yes. It's been the standard for a few years now to shoot in at least 4K, so content is plentiful. A 4K show streamed in high quality really does look amazing on a large enough screen.

You have a point though. The Nvidia Shield in particular is well known for incredible 4K upscaling. And for the vast majority of people their TV is too small to truly benefit from the 4K content. Most of us here probably could enjoy it, but I'd expect the average consumer to see no real benefit in their homes. I think of 4K like Atmos - it's awesome for enthusiasts and people willing to invest in quality gear, but doesn't make a big difference to the poorly placed soundbar crowd.
Actually, when we upgraded to the Netflix 4K service we noticed a substantial and surprising improvement in video quality on native 4K content. I'm not sure that the difference is really because of 4K per se, since a Blu-ray looks almost as good to me, but there is a difference on our 70" monitor.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
Well, if they can provide 4K at similar quality with half the bitrate, could they not be trying to achieve 8K @60hz in the future at the current rate. If not 8K, then perhaps 4K @120hz? Soon enough the PS5 and XBOX Series X will be here and there are currently a very few TVs and AVRs that can handle it. Just a guess. Besides, there are worse bits to cut in half and expect the same quality.;)
No.
 
B

bruin62

Full Audioholic
This is what I don’t understand? They are pushing 8K tv’s but they can’t even stream 4K let alone 1080 properly?
 
B

bruin62

Full Audioholic
This is what I don’t understand? They are pushing 8K tv’s but they can’t even stream 4K let alone 1080 properly?
Your right on the 1080 streaming. I kinda added my satilight connection to my comment. There is no way I’m getting 1080 on satilight
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
It's not only 4K. The HD version of the West Wing on Netflix is very, very soft. I recently purchased the entire series on Vudu in HDX, and it's markedly better -- way, way better.

It's a moot point for the West Wing, however, because as of the 25th it's leaving Netflix for good -- supposedly going to HBO Max.
 
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