Need Sub Upgrade

[BJP]

I'm upgrading my whole HT. All I have left to upgrade is my sub. Currently it is the Athena Sub 8. My room is about 2000 sq ft(including dining room). The main listening area is 16x11x8ft. HT 80% and music 20%. I really like action, war and sci-fi movies, I like to feel the bass. Here are a list of the subs that I'm interested in:

SVS PB12-ISD
Hsu VTF-3 Mk2
Axiom EP500
Paradigm PW2200

The latter three I can easily buy in Canada. The SVS will carry a hefty shipping charge. I've heard that the SVS would be the best for Movies, followed by hsu. Axiom is more musical and the Paradigm I've heard little about, but the specs look good. What would be the best sub for my room and listening preferences?

 

[Sheep]

the axiom and Hsu would be your best bet for price to performance ratio.

HSU review:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/hsu-vtf-3r-subwoofer-1-2004.html

Axiom review:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AxiomEP500reviewp1.php

another sub your could consider is the outlaw LFM-1. You could get 2 for the price of the axiom, its a great value.

Outlaw LFM-1 review:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AxiomEP500reviewp1.php

hope this helps,

sheep

 

[df4801]

I thought the paradigm pw2200 was a really good sub for the price.
Why doesnt it get more love on this forum???

 

[Takeereasy]

I think that the PW-2200 is a great sub. It is my honest opinion that the HSU VTF-3 is a better sub. BJP, out of the subs you've mentioned I've only heard the HSU and the Paradigm offerings but from the reviews on this site I think that the Axiom sub is worth at least a Demo. Are you willing to pay the return shipping cost if you were to try it out in your home and not love it? Axiom does have that risk free trial period. I really think that SVS looses a lot of their appeal once they have to cross the Canadian border. Once you add in tax, duties, brokerage fees, etc., SVS is not the value it is in the States. What you need to find is a store or two that will let you demo the Axiom alongside the competition you mentioned. I recently demoed a PDR-12 alongside the HSU offerings and there was no comparison. The HSUs walked all over the lower end Paradigm offering. The PW2200 is a different beast all togehter though. It really will shake the walls and give you that "feel it in you chest" bass that you are looking for. The PW2200 was the first sub I was dying to have and I still think it is a great unit. I think it, and all the other subs you have mentioned are well researched and fantastic buys. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[BJP]

I think that the PW-2200 is a great sub. It is my honest opinion that the HSU VTF-3 is a better sub. BJP, out of the subs you've mentioned I've only heard the HSU and the Paradigm offerings but from the reviews on this site I think that the Axiom sub is worth at least a Demo. Are you willing to pay the return shipping cost if you were to try it out in your home and not love it? Axiom does have that risk free trial period. I really think that SVS looses a lot of their appeal once they have to cross the Canadian border. Once you add in tax, duties, brokerage fees, etc., SVS is not the value it is in the States. What you need to find is a store or two that will let you demo the Axiom alongside the competition you mentioned. I recently demoed a PDR-12 alongside the HSU offerings and there was no comparison. The HSUs walked all over the lower end Paradigm offering. The PW2200 is a different beast all togehter though. It really will shake the walls and give you that "feel it in you chest" bass that you are looking for. The PW2200 was the first sub I was dying to have and I still think it is a great unit. I think it, and all the other subs you have mentioned are well researched and fantastic buys. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

I recently demoed the VP150 from axiom. It was impressive, but could not compare with my Polk CSi5. It cost $17 to return. Canada post only excepts packages 66lbs max. I punched in the info on their website and made it 66 lbs and it came to $32. Purolator says $70. I am willing to try it, but I've heard comments that it is more of a musical sub than HT. I'm not sure what makes a sub musical or HT . I read on the outlaw site that products that are made in the U.S. are exempt for duties. So if I'm not mistaken I'd only pay taxes and handling fee. All togethor I estimate the SVS would be $ 1200. That is more than Paradigm and HSU subs. I have my eyes set on SVS, but I'm not sure if it can out perform the Paradigm and HSU.

 

[Takeereasy]

You will most likely be duty free if you go SVS, that's true.

I don't care what anyone says, if a sub can hit 20hz with authority, and all you've listed can, then they should be amazing for home theatre. That isn't always true when it comes to music. There are others that can explain it betterthan this but: some subs are just plain better when it comes time to reproduce music. The fact that the axiom can hit 15 hz (albeit down 9 db) means that there is virtually nothing that this sub can not create in terms of low. The fact that it is accurate with music is a bonus IMO, and does not take away from its home theatre performance. When people are saying that the Axiom is a Music first sub what do they mean? That it is faster, tighter, and more accurate than the competition? Not a bad thing in my opinion, and my usage for my HT gear is about the same as yours, 80% Movies/20% music.

If I were you, and had a $1000-$1400 budget (I wish), I'd stretch it so that at least you can give that sub the try. Between the Axiom and the SVS the Axiom is the one that will only cost you beetween $30 and $70 to audition. That SVS would cost you at least $150 when you factor in shipping both ways. Plus the non-refundable brokerage fee. So you're looking at a minimum of $200 just to try the SVS. I'm not pimping Axiom here. If I were picking from the list you mentioned I'd have to give the Axiom a try. While it's at your house you can take it to a Paradigm and an HSU dealer if they are receptive to allowing you to A/B the products. Believe me, most shops are willing to allow you a breief test if it gives the salesman a chance at closing a deal on a $1000 sub. If you hate all 3 subs or just think you can do better give the SVS a try. That's how I'd do it anyway.

If you told me that right now I could have one of those subs free I'd take the HSU. I know what it can do and it is at a minimum as good as the Paradigm.

 

[BJP]

You will most likely be duty free if you go SVS, that's true.

I don't care what anyone says, if a sub can hit 20hz with authority, and all you've listed can, then they should be amazing for home theatre. That isn't always true when it comes to music. There are others that can explain it betterthan this but: some subs are just plain better when it comes time to reproduce music. The fact that the axiom can hit 15 hz (albeit down 9 db) means that there is virtually nothing that this sub can not create in terms of low. The fact that it is accurate with music is a bonus IMO, and does not take away from its home theatre performance. When people are saying that the Axiom is a Music first sub what do they mean? That it is faster, tighter, and more accurate than the competition? Not a bad thing in my opinion, and my usage for my HT gear is about the same as yours, 80% Movies/20% music.

If I were you, and had a $1000-$1400 budget (I wish), I'd stretch it so that at least you can give that sub the try. Between the Axiom and the SVS the Axiom is the one that will only cost you beetween $30 and $70 to audition. That SVS would cost you at least $150 when you factor in shipping both ways. Plus the non-refundable brokerage fee. So you're looking at a minimum of $200 just to try the SVS. I'm not pimping Axiom here. If I were picking from the list you mentioned I'd have to give the Axiom a try. While it's at your house you can take it to a Paradigm and an HSU dealer if they are receptive to allowing you to A/B the products. Believe me, most shops are willing to allow you a breief test if it gives the salesman a chance at closing a deal on a $1000 sub. If you hate all 3 subs or just think you can do better give the SVS a try. That's how I'd do it anyway.

If you told me that right now I could have one of those subs free I'd take the HSU. I know what it can do and it is at a minimum as good as the Paradigm.

Thanks for the info Takeereasy . From the beginning of my sub search I had my eyes on the Axiom, impressive specs. Thanks for reminding me about the possibility of a return with the SVS, didn't even cross my mind . I'll give Axiom a shot although I have to get one of my cards down in size . Spend, spend spend!

 

[daman4799]

BJP,

I own two subs, both I like for different reasons. I own a SVS 20-39PCI and a Outlaw LFM-1. If I had to do it all over again I would buy a HSU-VTF3MKII. This thing does movies and music well. Don't get me wrong both of my subs are great. I just don't like the SVS as well for music and the Outlaw does'nt go as low for movies.

Good luck, Daman

 

[mulester7]

BJP,

I own two subs, both I like for different reasons. I own a SVS 20-39PCI and a Outlaw LFM-1. If I had to do it all over again I would buy a HSU-VTF3MKII. This thing does movies and music well. Don't get me wrong both of my subs are great. I just don't like the SVS as well for music and the Outlaw does'nt go as low for movies. Good luck, Daman

.....Daman, that seems to be the choice one has to make in a sub....do I want realism concussion for Home Theater DVD's, or do I want accurate quickness and a brighter timbre that doesn't go QUITE as low for music CD's?....it's all in the size of the box related to the element or elements.....

 

[Takeereasy]

You are welcome BJP, I just hope I was somewhat useful. I'm in the same boat as you, sub hunting that is, but with about half the budget. I had my heart set on the Cadence but I'm putting off my decision for a few more weeks. I'll just live with what I've got till then.

Mulester, that's why I think the Axiom would be a worth a demo. It really can get down under 20hz with authority and seems to be fast enough to keep up with music. Would being that fast take away from HT ability? If so how? I hope some members get this sub and tell us that it really does live up to the hype.

 

[Tomorrow]

You are welcome BJP, I just hope I was somewhat useful. I'm in the same boat as you, sub hunting that is, but with about half the budget. I had my heart set on the Cadence but I'm putting off my decision for a few more weeks. I'll just live with what I've got till then.

Mulester, that's why I think the Axiom would be a worth a demo. It really can get down under 20hz with authority and seems to be fast enough to keep up with music. Would being that fast take away from HT ability? If so how? I hope some members get this sub and tell us that it really does live up to the hype.

Er, just a little reminder....assuming the stars are in correct alignment, HSU will soon be coming out with a High Output VTF-3 and an add-on turbo option for my friend the STF-3. I think (someone correct me if I'm off a hz or two) you're looking at 17hz +/-2db at outrageous levels, >90. hehheh

 

[mulester7]

Mulester, that's why I think the Axiom would be a worth a demo. It really can get down under 20hz with authority and seems to be fast enough to keep up with music. Would being that fast take away from HT ability? If so how? I hope some members get this sub and tell us that it really does live up to the hype.

.....Takeereasy, ANY speaker or sub is worth a demo....I would love to hear the Axiom....but....for what I am after, I'm convinced it's going to be sealed boxes cut on the bottom of the signal....I applaud your attitude of waiting until you feel solid about your decision....this here money don't go far enough as it is, why waste it?....

.....don't we all love these gas prices?....regular is $2.59.9 here in central Arkinsaw....mercy.....

 

[Sheep]

Do you have a way to listen to the subs you havent heard yet? You can do an in trial with axiom I believe.

I have heard the paradigm PW2200, but I though it sounded a little boomy, for my tastes atleast. Maybe it was set too loud, showing off.

If you can listen to all the unheard ones, you will not need anyone's recommendation as you will decide based on your ears. I still recommend axiom and HSU as the top ones.

sheep

 

[BJP]

If you can listen to all the unheard ones, you will not need anyone's recommendation as you will decide based on your ears. I still recommend axiom and HSU as the top ones.

I agree Sheep, I have knocked off SVS from my list because of the lovely border extra's and the possibility of a return. I can easily have a listen to the Paradigm(if it's in stock). But I think I'll demo the Axiom and tell everyone how it performs. If I don't like it, then its HSU.

 

[jaxvon]

Considering that AH called the EP500 "King of the Deep", I'd say it's a pretty darn good subwoofer.