Need important sub advice SVS PB10Vs. SVS 25-31PCi

[maxse]

Okay I need some help here. My original budget was $250 lol. Because of everyone on the site I then stretched to $500 for PB10 and now the 25-31PCi which was recommended by SVS. I really need your opnion on the subs because this means no eating for a month for me...

Here is my room: It's difficult to describe but it is in a basement. I will be setting up the HT stuff on the left side of the basement. It is 14' long by 12' wide. I am sitting at the rear wall so 14'. The thing is to the right of me are two columns (that hold the house up) and the rest is open space (about just as much 14'X12'). Now I am not really concerned about that part of the basement since the screen and projector and everything is on the left side but I understand it will effect the bass somewhat. Given this what would you recommend? Sorry about the long post but I need to make sure I do this right, and you guys are the best, thanks.

By the way I have low suspended ceilings so the height is 6'6"...

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Now I emailed SVS about the PB10 and what they would reccomend and they told me that I would need the 25-31PCi since my room is aboutg 2200 cu-ft total even though I will only be sitting and listening on one side of the room. Hes said that if I go with the PB10 I would lose 2-4db of maximum clean output. They said it owulod sound good but I will be limited to 106-112db of clean output. And that if I calibrate the system it would equate to 9-15db under "reference."

Now can someone please explain this to me lol im not quite sure what this means. They also said they would custom tune it to 22hz. Please your opnions are very important.

 

[deftech]

I'm sorry I can not give you an explanation of what they meant. I have a 25-31 pci in a large room and it has tons of clean, solid output. Svs is a very repuitable company and if they say to gowith the 25-31 I would take their word for it.

 

[korgoth]

i guess they dontthink the pb10 is enough to fill the room.

you should just get 2 subs. You can get 2 200-300 dollar subs and it will fill the room way better than that one.

i havent looked much, but there are tons of posts with sub recommendations of around 300. supposedly the subs in the 500 dollar range wont have much of jump in quality anyway.

 

[maxse]

The SVS subs are supposed to be a really bang for your buck. Usually people say you cant get better performance for anything other than $1000.

In addition I noticed that the 25-31pci is a downfiring sub and since my ceilings are low I think someone recommended a forward-firing sub?

 

[mulester7]

The SVS subs are supposed to be a really bang for your buck. Usually people say you cant get better performance for anything other than $1000.

In addition I noticed that the 25-31pci is a downfiring sub and since my ceilings are low I think someone recommended a forward-firing sub?

.....MaxSE, I suspect you'd be fine with either down or front firing even with a lower ceiling....that condition would probably give a tightness to either....were your ceilings 20 feet tall though, I would go front-firing for sure, as bouncing would take forever....surely it would be as if the down-firing sub had fallen in a hole with little to grab inside of 20 feet.....

 

[MDS]

Now I emailed SVS about the PB10 and what they would reccomend and they told me that I would need the 25-31PCi since my room is aboutg 2200 cu-ft total even though I will only be sitting and listening on one side of the room. Hes said that if I go with the PB10 I would lose 2-4db of maximum clean output. They said it owulod sound good but I will be limited to 106-112db of clean output. And that if I calibrate the system it would equate to 9-15db under "reference."

Now can someone please explain this to me lol im not quite sure what this means. They also said they would custom tune it to 22hz. Please your opnions are very important.

If you calibrate the system to Dolby Reference Level you have 105 dB peaks for all channels except the LFE. LFE can be up to 10 dB hotter and thus can reach 115 dB. The subwoofer is going to be playing the LFE.

They are saying that because your room is fairly large, you won't be able to achieve those reference levels at the listening position with the PB-10. The numbers they gave you are a ballpark estimate because they don't know every detail about your room. They are experts on bass in general and their products in particular, so I have no reason to doubt that their estimate is going to be pretty accurate.

If you take the low end of the estimate at 106 dB, that would be 9 dB under reference level of 115 dB. That is assuming 'clean' output and since they said a potential loss of 2-4 dB of clean output you can bet that at 106 dB it will be exhibiting slightly higher distortion levels - so subtract another 4 dB so you are looking at 102 dB of clean output and that would be 13 dB below reference levels.

You need to consider whether that is really going to matter to you. Have you ever heard 115 dB of clean bass? It's pretty damn loud. My system is calibrated to reference level and I *never* listen to it that loud. IMO, 100 dB of clean output is more than enough.

 

[maxse]

hmm I was ready to pull the plug on the 25-31 already. I have never heard a system at that level so I really dont know how loud that is. I emailed them again to see what they say... People on here say that SVS is pretty honest and knows their stuff, we'll see.

 

[j_garcia]

you should just get 2 subs. You can get 2 200-300 dollar subs and it will fill the room way better than that one.

Sorry, but this isn't exactly correct. Two crappy subs will only give you 2X crappy output, it won't improve the sound of either.

I have the PB-10 in a larger room than that, but I'd suspect that room is concrete, which will pose a problem for both the PB-10 and the 25-31. In a long, large room, the 25-31 is probably the better choice, but saying "only" 112dB peaks is like saying "only" 120mph. I've heard the 25-31 in a larger room than mine and it definitely had more output, but it also doesn't go quite as low. If you want to go lower, you're probably going to need more sub. HOWEVER - you can order that guy in 22Hz tune, essentially a 22-31PCi, which may give you a bit less output but also get you a little lower.

 

[Sheep]

Two crappy subs will only give you 2X crappy output, it won't improve the sound of either.

hahahaha, thats soo funny, nicely put.

I agree. 2 plain jain subs won't match the depth and spl of ANY single SVS subwoofer.

Happy halloween,
Damn I love reese pieces!

Sheepstar

 

[corey]

Okay I need some help here. My original budget was $250 lol. Because of everyone on the site I then stretched to $500 for PB10 and now the 25-31PCi which was recommended by SVS. I really need your opnion on the subs because this means no eating for a month for me...

The PB10 is a better sub than the ones you were looking at for $250.
The 25-31PCi is better yet.
There are $1000 subs better than that.
There are $5000 subs better than the $1000 ones.

The list goes on. You have to pick a place to stop, or at least pause for a while.

The $500 sub might be close to twice better than the $500 one, but while the $5000 sub is better than the $1000 sub, it's nowhere near twice as good.

 

[maxse]

I see, thanks everyone. So you guys are saying the PB10 shold be enough in my case? Just sucks because SVS who knows their subs said that it wouldnt be. But Im not sure about the numbers so I dunno. I want to do this right so I dont have any regrets later or a want to upgrade a sub. So what do you think?

*EDIT* You are right he said he would tune the 25-31PCi to 22hz.

 

[jcPanny]

PB10 = 10" box sub
25-31PCi = 12" cylinder sub

The larger area of the 12" sub will allow it to produce more LFE in a room of your size. I would go with the SVS recommendation unless you have a WAF issue that requires the box shape or a perticular color.

 

[johsti]

I would go with the PB-10.

I have a pb-10 in a 14x17' room with openings to a kitchen and hallway. My room has carpeting and 8' ceilings. The sub is placed right behind the couch/listening position with the volume at 35%. For me, this sub fits the bill perfectly.

You might want to go with the less expensive PB-10, and if it doesn't produce enough bass (which I doubt to be the case for your application) you can always send it back in exchange for the 25-31. Or, you could get a second pb-10 down the road. Also, keep checking the B-stock for reduced prices. That's where I got mine, and it looks/works perfect.

I think you'll be happy with either one. Good Luck

 

[korgoth]

Sorry, but this isn't exactly correct. Two crappy subs will only give you 2X crappy output, it won't improve the sound of either.

I have the PB-10 in a larger room than that, but I'd suspect that room is concrete, which will pose a problem for both the PB-10 and the 25-31. In a long, large room, the 25-31 is probably the better choice, but saying "only" 112dB peaks is like saying "only" 120mph. I've heard the 25-31 in a larger room than mine and it definitely had more output, but it also doesn't go quite as low. If you want to go lower, you're probably going to need more sub. HOWEVER - you can order that guy in 22Hz tune, essentially a 22-31PCi, which may give you a bit less output but also get you a little lower.

yeah, i havent personally heard it so i couldnt make a comparison, but i just figured if the pb10 couldnt fill the room, then 2 cadence x's or somethin like that might do the job more easily.

 

[j_garcia]

My room is 4000+ cf and the PB-10 does a surprisingly good job in it. No pant leg flapping like I felt with the 25-31PCi, but it still has plenty of output at the very bottom. I would love a little more rumble than that, but I'm in an apartment, so this is plenty. The 25-31PCi has the most output compared to the non- plus and ultras; the 20-39 and 16-46 go much lower but give up a bit of output up higher, which is why I'd say SVS recommended the 25-31. My crackhead cats would love to use it as a scratching post though, so I went with the PB-10.

I believe someone here mentioned not too long ago, probably in another thread, that 2 X-subs still had less output at 25Hz than a single PB-10.

 

[corysmith01]

I'm also in a giant living room (with semi-vaulted ceilings even) and use the PB10, and I've got to agree with J Garcia...it's plenty for me, being that I'm in a condo. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be in the apartment much longer and am moving to a shockingly smaller apartment. Thus, I'm selling my SVS to downsize. It's listed over in the classifieds section. Has a photo slide show linked if you want to see it. If you wanna save some money on a PB10, this one's in perfect condition:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15423

 

[mazersteven]

i guess they dontthink the pb10 is enough to fill the room.

you should just get 2 subs. You can get 2 200-300 dollar subs and it will fill the room way better than that one.

i havent looked much, but there are tons of posts with sub recommendations of around 300. supposedly the subs in the 500 dollar range wont have much of jump in quality anyway.

I wouldn't listen to this post. Complete nonsense.

 

[mazersteven]

hmm I was ready to pull the plug on the 25-31 already. I have never heard a system at that level so I really dont know how loud that is. I emailed them again to see what they say... People on here say that SVS is pretty honest and knows their stuff, we'll see.

Tom at SVS will NEVER lead you wrong. They would rather not sell you, then sell you something you don't need. Fact

 

[mazersteven]

I see, thanks everyone. So you guys are saying the PB10 shold be enough in my case? Just sucks because SVS who knows their subs said that it wouldnt be. But Im not sure about the numbers so I dunno. I want to do this right so I dont have any regrets later or a want to upgrade a sub. So what do you think?

*EDIT* You are right he said he would tune the 25-31PCi to 22hz.

And I'm like everyone else. I have a large room with vaulted ceilings, open to the kitchen, dining room and hall. The PB-10 ISD puts out clean good bass.
It's a great sub.

 

[annunaki]

Tom at SVS will NEVER lead you wrong. They would rather not sell you, then sell you something you don't need. Fact

I agree. Tom and Ron are excellent to work with. Class Acts .