Need help with Yamaha MusicCast & AVR configuration for 11 Zones

[Brian Burke]

I am remodeling a house and decided to go all in on Yamaha new MusicCast and Receivers.
I read the post 97509 (I can't show because newbie) and found it very useful but would really appreciate if a member could look at what I have, Zones and best configuration for the AVR's. I have questions on video also but making the best use of the Receivers in my main goal with the post.

 

[highfigh]

I am remodeling a house and decided to go all in on Yamaha new MusicCast and Receivers.
I read the post 97509 (I can't show because newbie) and found it very useful but would really appreciate if a member could look at what I have, Zones and best configuration for the AVR's. I have questions on video also but making the best use of the Receivers in my main goal with the post.

Are you planning to try using the AVR as the distribution point for 11 Zones, including video? I would use a video matrix. They cost more, but they just plain work.

 

[Brian Burke]

Are you planning to try using the AVR as the distribution point for 11 Zones, including video? I would use a video matrix. They cost more, but they just plain work.

Excited this could resolve my video questions. Been reading about them this afternoon and many varieties and cost range. StarTech's site had several options. Would you be able to recommend video matrix switch? The house will be wired for CAT Cable. Would I be looking for 4x4 HDMI Matrix Video Switch

 

[highfigh]

Excited this could resolve my video questions. Been reading about them this afternoon and many varieties and cost range. StarTech's site had several options. Would you be able to recommend video matrix switch? The house will be wired for CAT Cable. Would I be looking for 4x4 HDMI Matrix Video Switch

Just Add Power, Zektor, Vanco- many brands to choose from. I would design for additional sources and video displays but 8x8 would be excessive. 6x4 might be worth looking at.

If you plan to stay there for any length of time, make sure to include some way to add cabling in the future- even if you never use it, it will save an incredible amount of time in the event that you need to replace/add/move cables. Flexible plastic conduit, secured to a junction box near the other cables (farther from the power wiring) is a good way, even if it's only stubbed into a basement, crawl space or attic. Make the path as simple and as straight as possible. If you can, create a "head end" for everything and branch out from there. This is usually called 'structured wiring' when it involves voice, data, CATV, control and other infrastructure. You may be able to locate the brains of the matrix close to the AV equipment so your HDMI cables will be as short as possible, but no so short that they're hard to work with or the whole cabinet is jam-packed.

 

[Latent]

There are a few issues with using MusicCast and this many video zones. MusicCast as the name suggests allows you to cast music around your house. It works with external sources connected to AVR's like cable boxes or blueray players etc as well but will only distribute the audio content to other zones via MusicCast. High end AVR's like the RX-V3050 have a zone 2/4 with HDMI output and this will pass video sources as well but I don't know what happens if you use the MusicCast mobile app to switch a video source to this HDMI zone if it will output just the audio or the video as well. If you have this unit already you can test for this out and see how well it works. Note on this AVR zone 2 is most powerful if setup as the HDMI zone which disables Zone 4 but Zone 2 then passes everything.

If Zone 2 HDMI switching works well or easily from the Yamaha mobile applications then you could look at the option of getting a HDMI splitter instead of a Matrix. These have the advantage of being a lot cheaper and having no control requirements. There is nothing to switch they just take one HDMI signal in and amplify and reproduce it 2,4 or 8 times. This cheaper setup would allow you to select one of your HDMI sources on your master AVR to be switched to Zone 2 and this would output to all the other video zones. There is one big limitation that you can only have one source at a time sent to all the other video zones. You basically have one master video zone and then a second zone for everywhere else in the house. Also the RX-V3050 has a limitation that if you are watching a HDMI source in the main zone and at the same time select the same source in Zone 2 then it converts audio to 2 channel for this second zone.

With a Matrix setup you can switch any source to any output as required which is obviously more powerful but the only potential problem is the interface to control the Matrix unit. These units often have RS-232 for home automation control as well as a basic IR remote. Ideally you would be using a full home automation solution that integrates with your matrix unit so that control of your zones is all done in one place but this may not mix well with MusicCast which is its own system.

Another issue to think about is length of HDMI cabling. You can mount all your AVR's in a single place with short HDMI cables linking them but then you need a long HDMI to get through the walls to each TV/Display in the destination room and you may need HDMI->CAT5/6->HDMI converters to get this length and these can be expensive for good quality ones. And if you need quite a few of them it could get very expensive... Another issue with this method is how do you control the AVR assigned to this zone from inside that room??? With technology like MusicCast this is not an issue as the control is all wifi/network based from a tablet/phone so you can place the AVR anywhere but it is really only Audio focused so won't do video use that well. You can locate some of the AVR's in the destination room so it's speaker wires are shorter and the connection from AVR->TV is also shorter but then you still need a long HDMI run and possible converter from the central point to here. With the AVR in the room controlling the volume etc is a bit easier.

Also you have to be able to control the source devices like changing channel on the cable/sat box or play/pause on the bluray player. MusicCast does not have any external source control and only has direct control of music streaming services and local music content.

Anyway there are some of the things to think about anyway.

 

[Latent]

One other interesting Idea is to handle all audio via MusicCast app but have the Zone 2 HDMI output connected to a 6 way splitter feeding directly to the TV's/Displays in the other video rooms . In this setup the audio and video are not really linked together as such. You decide you want to watch the big game so you activate zone 2 HDMI out to link to cable source which is playing the game. You then load up your MusicCast app and select the external cable source and select a few rooms you want the audio for the game sent to. You then walk into the kitchen where the audio is playing now and using the TV remote on the kitchen counter or the physical button on the TV to switch it on and up comes the game.

The 5.1 basement setup may need to be treated differently with the HDMI going into a local AVR in this room instead of direct to the TV. You may also add some extra dedicated source devices to this room for local bluray playback etc.

 

[Brian Burke]

One other interesting Idea is to handle all audio via MusicCast app but have the Zone 2 HDMI output connected to a 6 way splitter feeding directly to the TV's/Displays in the other video rooms . In this setup the audio and video are not really linked together as such. You decide you want to watch the big game so you activate zone 2 HDMI out to link to cable source which is playing the game. You then load up your MusicCast app and select the external cable source and select a few rooms you want the audio for the game sent to. You then walk into the kitchen where the audio is playing now and using the TV remote on the kitchen counter or the physical button on the TV to switch it on and up comes the game.

The 5.1 basement setup may need to be treated differently with the HDMI going into a local AVR in this room instead of direct to the TV. You may also add some extra dedicated source devices to this room for local bluray playback etc.

Thank you for the suggestions pointing out some of the issues with my plan. I should have known MusicCast is Audio focused. I am going to test this last suggestion Friday and see what happens.

 

[Latent]

If you already have a 3050 and a 679 then i would setup the following test:

Connect 3050 and 679 to your wired internet somewhere. Connect 2 speakers to 679 FL/FR.
Connect HDMI external TV type source device to the 3050 HDMI1 input and start it playing something. Config HDMI OUt 2 port to Zone2 mode in setup menu. Connect HDMI Out 2 port to a TV. Turn TV on and make sure it is muted or not outputing audio though its local speakers. load MusicCast app and register your two AVR's in it. Use MusicCast to stream the external HDMI1 from the 3050 to the main zone on the 679. You should now hear the source through the 2 speakers. Now using 3050 remote in zone2 switched mode or the yamaha AV controller mobile app, switch the zone2 to watch HDMI1. TV should now display the screen. Now check if there are any major lip-sync issues.

This above setup simulates having a remote audio zone being feed by MusicCast while also feeding a TV the video feed separately.

Also test using MusicCast App to feed the second zone of the 3050 with HDMI1 input and see if it outputs video or just streams the audio only. If this doesn't work then you have to do video switching side without MusicCast.

Another thing to test while you are at it is to connect 2 surround speakers to the 679 above and see if it MusicCast can be set to 7 channel stereo sound mode which allows all 4 speakers to be used. This would help in dinning and outdoor zones maybe. Note that default 7 channel stereo sound mode has surrounds set to 50-60% of the volume of the FL/FR speakers but this can be tweaked up to 100% if you can find the sound mode settings menu. If it doesn't remember this sound mode next time you use MusicCast then this may be next to useless though.

A final note is that you have a couple of 1 speaker zones which may cause some issues and ideally you would use a different ceiling speaker that is designed to accept a full stereo speaker input and it is sort of like two speakers in one and outputs stereo from a single point.

 

[herbu]

I can't help w/ this technical discussion. But I would have some concerns about 11 zones from 1 AVR. Maybe it's just because I don't understand.

> Can somebody "playing" with one zone interrupt/affect service to another zone? (If the wife is watching a movie in the living room, can you make any change you want to a basement room without bothering your wife?)
> Will everybody who will use the system be knowledgeable? (The same example as above, but you're watching the movie and your wife is diddling with the system in a basement room.)
> Complexity compared to several separate systems?

Like I said, I don't know. Just thinking.

 

[Latent]

I can't help w/ this technical discussion. But I would have some concerns about 11 zones from 1 AVR. Maybe it's just because I don't understand.

> Can somebody "playing" with one zone interrupt/affect service to another zone? (If the wife is watching a movie in the living room, can you make any change you want to a basement room without bothering your wife?)
> Will everybody who will use the system be knowledgeable? (The same example as above, but you're watching the movie and your wife is diddling with the system in a basement room.)
> Complexity compared to several separate systems?

Like I said, I don't know. Just thinking.

If we are just talking about Audio streaming side handled by MusicCast then there is not just one AVR for multiple zones. MusicCast links up to 10 devices which can be Yamaha AVR's or there other speaker and soundbar MusicCast products and allows source from several sources including any inputs connected to any of the AVR's to be sent out to a selection of other MusicCast devices outputs and the sound is time synced. Devices are connected via Ethernet or Wifi and controlled from a mobile app. Only 10 devices maximum but AVR's can support 2 or more zones each so you can have more than 10 zones total.

Sound playing in one room doesn't effect sound in another room with the exception that if an external source like a CD-player is in use by one zone and another zone wants to listen they will have to listen to the same CD obviously. But MusicCast is not ideal for movie playback in multiple zones as it is an audio only standard and while it may allow audio from the TV setup in the Lounge play in the kitchen speakers so you can cook dinner while listening to the big game it does not handle sending the Video to the second zone.

For music only use it is a great simple easy to use user interface on a phone or tablet that your wife (or husband) should hopefully be able to use. But if you want to go down the full home automation route with video sources zipping everywhere and full control of all source devices at your fingertips you may have to look elsewhere for something to support that.

 

[Brian Burke]

If you already have a 3050 and a 679 then i would setup the following test:

Connect 3050 and 679 to your wired internet somewhere. Connect 2 speakers to 679 FL/FR.
Connect HDMI external TV type source device to the 3050 HDMI1 input and start it playing something. Config HDMI OUt 2 port to Zone2 mode in setup menu. Connect HDMI Out 2 port to a TV. Turn TV on and make sure it is muted or not outputing audio though its local speakers. load MusicCast app and register your two AVR's in it. Use MusicCast to stream the external HDMI1 from the 3050 to the main zone on the 679. You should now hear the source through the 2 speakers. Now using 3050 remote in zone2 switched mode or the yamaha AV controller mobile app, switch the zone2 to watch HDMI1. TV should now display the screen. Now check if there are any major lip-sync issues.

This above setup simulates having a remote audio zone being feed by MusicCast while also feeding a TV the video feed separately.

Also test using MusicCast App to feed the second zone of the 3050 with HDMI1 input and see if it outputs video or just streams the audio only. If this doesn't work then you have to do video switching side without MusicCast.

Another thing to test while you are at it is to connect 2 surround speakers to the 679 above and see if it MusicCast can be set to 7 channel stereo sound mode which allows all 4 speakers to be used. This would help in dinning and outdoor zones maybe. Note that default 7 channel stereo sound mode has surrounds set to 50-60% of the volume of the FL/FR speakers but this can be tweaked up to 100% if you can find the sound mode settings menu. If it doesn't remember this sound mode next time you use MusicCast then this may be next to useless though.

A final note is that you have a couple of 1 speaker zones which may cause some issues and ideally you would use a different ceiling speaker that is designed to accept a full stereo speaker input and it is sort of like two speakers in one and outputs stereo from a single point.

Thank you for pointing out that the single speakers being placed in the bathroom wouldn't work correctly. I updated them to Klipsch R-2650-CSM II, that has that have 2 inputs for left & right channel.