Need help setting up my dream home theatre system

[akshay]

Come on now, two?

at least three or four.

And with 8 strategically placed, I bet you could get +/- 2db BASS tolerance from 5hz to 150hz!

I doubt that there is any sound in this world that could go that low or that high.

let me relate this with dragon ballz anime if u have watched it u will understand what i want to say

"Is it necessary for goku to transform to supersaiyan 4 to beat guys like frieza or cell?"

 

[GranteedEV]

@acudeftechguy maybe the b&w speakers are good in fact great but might not be the best.But in my opinion instead of focussing more on tech aspects like freq reaponse or polar response it is better to listen to them.

What you're suggesting is that there should be no design science behind a professional product. Sorry, but frequency response and polar response are the #2 and #1, respectively, indicators of a scientifically well designed speaker. If you ignore the measurements then you're basically saying "I don't want an accurate speaker". Um... then what do you want?

Speakers are not an instrument that "makes" music.
They're not an EQ tool, or a DJ's remix deck.

Speakers are a reproduction tool. They should measure well, period.

If you want to add or subtract from what is on the source material, then be my guest. Personally, I don`t see that as the speaker`s job - that belongs to graphic EQ - and doesn`t make sense to me tbqh.

Sorry, but I`ve yet to see any reason I should audition a speaker that doesn`t even "qualify for the job"

It`s like telling me as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company to hire a high-school dropout with about a year of McDonald`s experience on her resume, to my Board of Directors.

"You won't know what she can do until you give her a shot"

Uh...VETO

 

[GranteedEV]

I doubt that there is any sound in this world that could go that low or that high.

let me relate this with dragon ballz anime if u have watched it u will understand what i want to say

"Is it necessary for goku to transform to supersaiyan 4 to beat guys like frieza or cell?"

150hz is not high... at all.

As for low, you're right, we don't need 5hz although YES there is both content and a different experience to be had from being flat down to this frequency. If you're not interested in experiencing everything on some discs, that's your call, but it`s untrue that it`s not there. I find it odd that you`re talking about spending all this big (read: ridiculous) money but you don`t want the best experience of absolute sound reproduction. I'm not obsessed with infrasonics on my tiny budget only because they are expensive to reproduce but if I had your budget or lack thereof, it just doesn't make sense to me why someone would want to cut out content that is on the disc. I definitely wouldn't want to "cut out" the top two octaves on the disc (I think 6-11khz and 11-22khz)

But that's not even the reason to use 4+ subs, that's just a welcome side effect. The real reason is to address room modes and changes in bass at different seating positions, while having virtually zero distortion produced by your subs - and yes - subs produce plenty of distortion. The real region we want flat is roughly 25hz to 150hz and we want to get distortion and driver motion low. If this bass region is flattened with multiple subs then bass is natural and clean and decays quickly with just the right amount of punch and weight.

P.S. Super Saiya-jin 4 is not canon. ;P - as far as Dragon Ball Z references, it's more like "Porunga's dragon balls give us 3 wishes, but the number 3 frightens me so i'm only going to use two wishes" or "Porunga's dragon balls give us 3 wishes, but i'm only used to one wish from Shen Long. Let's just ignore the other two wishes"

 

[akshay]

Sorry

The last 2 posts are a real eye-opener. I take all my words back. Really sorry.

Thanks for explaining to me the importance of these things

 

[GranteedEV]

I would go coo-coo-for coco puffs.

Um, you already are. In the last year you've bought Orions, Revels, KEFs, and a pair of Rythmiks.

I'm too cheap to buy spray paint for my subwoofer.

P.S. akshay - don't apologize to me. I'm not angry. I'm just trying to make a point about how I feel

"Video and Sound Reproduction is a science, not an art"

The music, movies, TV shows, japanese anime, video games, the things we choose to reproduce - that is the art, and I prefer the reproduction system to measurably do the best job it can on my budget in doing as little to the signal it is fed. That is all.

Others on the internet prefer 8W SET amps mated to Wilson speakers etc, or imbalanced car audio with multiple subs set 25-30db too high because they are interested in playing with fun toys, rather than using the best tools for the job. To those other people, listening to Norah Jones recordings and seeing what funky things their complex, fundamentally flawed setups can do to the sound, is the fun part, or listening to obnoxious electronik bass tones to see how quickly they can get someone to call the cops.

I think audio is really fun, or I wouldn't be hear. But I think the fun is in getting the most out of the recording, not to add or subtract from it.

 

[akshay]

"Video and Sound Reproduction is a science, not an art"

The music, movies, TV shows, japanese anime, video games, the things we choose to reproduce - that is the art, and I prefer the reproduction system to measurably do the best job it can on my budget in doing as little to the signal it is fed. That is all.

Others on the internet prefer 8W SET amps mated to Wilson speakers etc, or imbalanced car audio with multiple subs set 25-30db too high because they are interested in playing with fun toys, rather than using the best tools for the job. To those other people, listening to Norah Jones recordings and seeing what funky things their complex, fundamentally flawed setups can do to the sound, is the fun part, or listening to obnoxious electronik bass tones to see how quickly they can get someone to call the cops.

I think audio is really fun, or I wouldn't be hear. But I think the fun is in getting the most out of the recording, not to add or subtract from

it.

Right said man. I also want to be a part of such a category and believe in these principles. By category i mean "getting the most out of the recording" category, not otherwise. I do not know why i wrote such a message .

 

[cpp]

I dislike these type of post, when a person indicates a cost of $7 million or no limit. I for sure would not be coming to a audio forum to ask that question if I had access to those kinds of funds for a "HT room". If you actually have that kind of money at hand, like one poster noted

I would strongly encourage you to hire someone who can focus on the acoustical nature of your room to ensure that you are getting the highest possible quality between both the speakers and the acoustics of the room

I agree, with that kind of money you can hire someone to properly review your room, correctly select your speakers and audio components and no doubt from my dealing with high end shops, they will come your home with every type of speaker and amp/processor imaginable.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You never know what kind of things come out of posts like these, though.

It could be interesting.

 

[GranteedEV]

I dislike these type of post, when a person indicates a cost of $7 million or no limit. I for sure would not be coming to a audio forum to ask that question if I had access to those kinds of funds for a "HT room".

A custom installer won't likely introduce him to a Salk Soundscape, or Seaton Catalyst, or Geddes Summa, or even a professional monitor like the Genelec 8260A.

Likewise with subwoofers. What is the MSRP of a JL Gotham? Will it outperform a custom dual opposed LMS-5400 from Funkywaves?

And coming to your home with different high end electronics means... what? Different places to blow money w ith virtually zero audible return? I would rather use google image search to pick a high end amp ;P and high end processors are often problematic and glitchy compared to mass market units like Denon/Yamaha - if not 5 years behind the curve. Parasound has yet to even release a modern processor... think about it.

Last I checked, no one here was giving him bad advice. There was a consensus that if is serious, he needs to hire a professional to design a room for him.

But professionals don't always offer the smartest options of equipment. Look at some of the CEPro articles on custom HTs and they're often just overpriced plain and simple and often underperforming... warpdrv's bass setup alone probably outperforms every custom install out there, and he didn't pay as much as those guys either.

Sorry, but having money doesn't equate to limiting your options, and it especially doesn't mean sticking to what one installer has in mind. We've got a few custom installers here and i don't think they would ever reach a consensus on what is the best product between them, so why would a person pick an installer and let that person handle everything?

I don't care what my budget is or what I am trying to buy - getting advice from people on the internet is never a bad idea.

 

[GranteedEV]

Right said man. I also want to be a part of such a category and believe in these principles. By category i mean "getting the most out of the recording" category, not otherwise. I do not know why i wrote such a message .

Okay. First of all you have to accept one fact:

Sometimes, recordings of media that we love just aren't very good. The better the setup, the more good recordings shine, but lesser recordings do inevitably hit a brick wall. Same with video as you know. Star Wars just doesn't look as good as Avatar no matter how awesome your screen is, but both can look similar on a 27 inch CRT from 1995. So during the audition process you might realize that your audition material is on the lacking side.

Second, I would purchase plane tickets to michigan, bring recordings along, and audition the Gedlee system inside the custom HT of Dr. Geddes. It will absolutely not be the most expensive HT setup but it will exemplify to you the concept of what we mean when we say 'Speaker and its interaction with Room' = 95% of what we hear' - everything else in that room is pedestrian - including a $200 receiver. While you're in michigan visit Salk Sound to hear their speakers as well.

 

[akshay]

This is not true.

A custom installer won't likely introduce him to a Salk Soundscape, or Seaton Catalyst, or Geddes Summa, or even a professional monitor like the Genelec 8260A.

Likewise with subwoofers.

Last I checked, no one here was giving him bad advice. There was a consensus that if is serious, he needs to hire a professional to design a room for him.

But professionals don't always offer the smartest options of equipment. Look at some of the CEPro articles on custom HTs and they're often just overpriced plain and simple and often underperforming.

Sorry, but having money doesn't equate to limiting your options, and it especially doesn't mean sticking to what one installer has in mind.

So rightly said. Many professionals thrive on the illiteracy of the customers and might suggest you something that clearly under performs but achieve good business to the company. They sometimes do not work with as much dedication as you want them to work for you.This isn't true for all but certainly for a few of them.So end result - A very bad experience, a room ruined and hard earned money gone down the drain.

No one in this forum has given me even the slightest of bad advice. In fact they have told me how to improve on the setup i had in mind and made some awesome suggestions.

Besides, just because i am willing to spend, i will not spend everything on some useless equipment which might not suit my setup or underperform than what they claim to be.

 

[akshay]

Okay. First of all you have to accept one fact:

Sometimes, recordings of media that we love just aren't very good. The better the setup, the more good recordings shine, but lesser recordings do inevitably hit a brick wall. Same with video as you know. Star Wars just doesn't look as good as Avatar no matter how awesome your screen is, but both can look similar on a 27 inch CRT from 1995. So during the audition process you might realize that your audition material is on the lacking side.

Second, I would purchase plane tickets to michigan, bring recordings along, and audition the Gedlee system inside the custom HT of Dr. Geddes. It will absolutely not be the most expensive HT setup but it will exemplify to you the concept of what we mean when we say 'Speaker and its interaction with Room' = 95% of what we hear' - everything else in that room is pedestrian - including a $200 receiver. While you're in michigan visit Salk Sound to hear their speakers as well.

Yup I realize this. I have a few recordings from films during 1940s and they will never sound as good as the recent recordings. Plainly because the technology available then was for gramophones and even if they are digitized, They will hit a brick wall sooner or later. So while testing these recordings what i am looking for is for noise to be at a minimum, (I don't think it can be nullified cause its present in the disc only). Maybe this is a too idealistic thought but i expect at least an enhanced experience than the original.

Even here my approach could be wrong so please correct me if so.

OK will do as you advise make a 1-2 day trip to michigan perhaps and check out the speakers you suggested

 

[cpp]

This is not true.

A custom installer won't likely introduce him to a Salk Soundscape, or Seaton Catalyst, or Geddes Summa, or even a professional monitor like the Genelec 8260A.

And how do you know this, you had $7million lately and tried ? I think not.. It all depends on where you live and if you had $7 million, you could get anyone in the Audio industry to design a system and these customs dealers or high end audio dealers have no problem getting high end equipment. If I had $7million, within 70 miles of me, I have dealers and they do custom orders, installations and carry; Usher, Cambridge audio, Quicksilver, Pathos, Rega, Thorens, ClearAudio, Vincent, ATI, JM Reynaud, Sunfire

This one in NC http://www.audioadvice.com/
Aerial | Bowers & Wilkins (B&W) | Era | Genelec | GoldenEar | James Loudspeaker
JL Audio | Linn | Magnepan | Martin Logan | Niles | PSB Speakers | Revel | Rockustics
SpeakerCraft | Triad | Vandersteen | Velodyne | Wilson Audio. Arcam | AudioControl | Ayre Acoustics | Bryston | Classé | Integra | Lexicon
Linn | Marantz | Mark Levinson | McIntosh | Pioneer Elite | Rotel, Audio Research | Basis Audio | Benz Micro | Clearaudio | Graham Engineering
Magnum Dynalab | Musical Surroundings | Peachtree Audio
Pro-ject (Sumiko) | SME Limited | Sumiko Audio | VPI | Wavelength Audio,
and a whole lot of others...

The world opens up when you have the money to do things with. Try it.

 

[GranteedEV]

And how do you know this, you had $7million lately and tried ? I think not.. It all depends on where you live and if you had $7 million, you could get anyone in the Audio industry to design a system and these customs dealers or high end audio dealers have no problem getting high end equipment. If I had $7million, within 70 miles of me, I have dealers and they do custom orders, installations and carry; Usher, Cambridge audio, Quicksilver, Pathos, Rega, Thorens, ClearAudio, Vincent, ATI, JM Reynaud, Sunfire

This one in NC http://www.audioadvice.com/
Aerial | Bowers & Wilkins (B&W) | Era | Genelec | GoldenEar | James Loudspeaker
JL Audio | Linn | Magnepan | Martin Logan | Niles | PSB Speakers | Revel | Rockustics
SpeakerCraft | Triad | Vandersteen | Velodyne | Wilson Audio. Arcam | AudioControl | Ayre Acoustics | Bryston | Classé | Integra | Lexicon
Linn | Marantz | Mark Levinson | McIntosh | Pioneer Elite | Rotel, Audio Research | Basis Audio | Benz Micro | Clearaudio | Graham Engineering
Magnum Dynalab | Musical Surroundings | Peachtree Audio
Pro-ject (Sumiko) | SME Limited | Sumiko Audio | VPI | Wavelength Audio,
and a whole lot of others...

The world opens up when you have the money to do things with. Try it.

What i see is a list of a bunch of brands, none of which shows your dealer can get you salk, seaton, gedlee, and that includes Genelec Professional... ask that dealer of yours if he sells the 8260A and he will tell you that genelec pro speakers can not be sold by Av shops - only pro audio stores.

I did not say to not visit an AV dealer. In fact in an earlier post I recall suggesting things like Revel, JBL Synthesis, and TAD Reference One. You would need to visit a dealer to audition any of this stuff.

But a dealer will not help you audition the stuff I named.

 

[cpp]

the world is full of equipment other than "salk, seaton, gedlee, and that includes Genelec Professional".

 

[GranteedEV]

the world is full of equipment other than "salk, seaton, gedlee, and that includes Genelec Professional".

But is it as good? How will you know if you only hear what the dealer offers?

Not sure why you would choose actively to avoid some great options if you had no budget, while only looking 70 miles near you.

If i couldnt hear an Everest 2 in Canada i would go to Japan to hear it, peraonally. Not settle for only what the dealer offers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This thread is no fun without a more reasonable budget.

If the budget were $50,000, it would be about right.

It just doesn't make sense to me that the budget is $7,000,000, and someone talks about a $1,800 Yamaha receiver?

 

[GranteedEV]

You want him to be looking at two $1800 yamaha receivers, one not even plugged in, for symmettry, we know.

 

[cpp]

But is it as good?

who knows have you heard every audio speaker, amp, processor, source device made, not me and no doubt you don't either.
Me noting 70 miles is what I can get today with a short drive or for that mater a quick 20 minute flight, but with unlimited cash distance is no object, I was just noting the quality of equipment close by. And why just look at a Everest 2, why not Westlake Audio SM-1, Lindell, NTT AudioLab 101, hey with $7 mil a person could equip a few large homes.


I agree AcuDefTechGuy $50,000 budget is more reasonable

 

[GranteedEV]

who knows have you heard every audio speaker, amp, processor, source device made, not me and no doubt you don't either.
Me noting 70 miles is what I can get today with a short drive or for that mater a quick 20 minute flight, but with unlimited cash distance is no object, I was just noting the quality of equipment close by. And why just look at a Everest 2, why not Westlake Audio SM-1, Lindell, NTT AudioLab 101, hey with $7 mil a person could equip a few large homes.

I don't see those on audioadvice's website. I thought they would show me everything I need to see. Except Salk, Seaton, Gedlee, and Genelec Pro, but who cares about those, they aren't lavishly priced, right?