Need help choosing a pair of decent towers for less than $1400

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's what I found by measurement, that running the Salon2s full-range and adding one sub was like having three subs, which saved me from buying two subs. I would guess that any towers with strong, undistorted response to 32Hz would act similarly.

For most rooms, the in-room bass response of the Salon2 is 20Hz or below, which is as good as many subs.

So the 20Hz in-room response of the Salon2 definitely qualifies as subwoofer-type bass.

I don't think towers in the $2-5K range has enough deep, powerful, accurate, low-distortion, low-Q tight bass to qualify as "subwoofer bass".

 

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

The Super MMG intrigues me. I have a bit of room, but how much power do I need?

 

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

You guys are great, but you're killing me. I am bringing up tabs of all these items and checking them out. I have a degree in Audio Production, so the science of a bookshelf with a subwoofer makes sense. I planned on a subwoofer anyway and the tower will just double up on those frequencies if the crossovers aren't set properly... I am leaning towards that idea. It takes the simple two channel stereo out of the mix, but I can live with that. So are there any great amps that are 5.2? (I'd like the option for rears and a center later) I'd like 2 subwoofers now.

 

[ImcLoud]

The subs are going to have their own amplifiers built in, 5 channels was this for a theater or a music 2. ch. system? I was thinking this was thinking this was a music only system.


Check out emotiva for your amp needs, buy what you can afford, the xpa5 is a great amp for 5 channels under $1 per watt... I own the amplifier and it is a work horse, for 2 channel music the xpa2 is amazing, and IMO about the best value amplifier in home audio, it sounds incredible... On the less expensive side there are avrs out there for under $500 that will power most bookshelfs on the market with no trouble, but to me I always like to see separate processor and amps in mid to high end systems...

If I were building a 2.2 system and was not worried about cost but building something I could afford, I would go with...
Ascend sierra towers
HSU ULS15 dual drive ULS-15 DualDrive Packages
Emotiva XSP1 receiver {this has built in crossover control so you can play with the cross point with just some twisting of a knob}
Emotiva XPA2 amplifier
in black with all the cables that will cost way under $6000 and sounds incredible in pretty much any room, I know someone with the identical setup that I designed and its AMAZING, VERY powerful!!! Clean clear warm and STRONG.... But its also over $5000, some people dont spend that on cars...

Heres a pic of my 2.2 system... I had a custom crossover set made after trying a few different combos, but my budget was under $2500, and I bought a lot on sale obviously since just the msrp on the two towers was almost my entire budget... But the above system is the only thing I have heard that I like better than what I have... Sadly I would have to go woodgrain since my wife has a no black speakers rule and that would add around $600 to the price..... Don't get discouraged, finding the rite equipment is just as fun as playing it...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It takes the simple two channel stereo out of the mix, but I can live with that.

Actually it does not. You could actually still do Pure Direct 2.0.

You connect the RCA Main Left and Right outputs of the AVR or Speaker line-level of the amp to the the Subs FIRST.

Then connect your speakers to the Speaker Output of the subs.

So now the sub amps' crossovers will route the bass frequencies, like 20-80Hz, to the subs and output the 80Hz-20kHz frequencies to the bookshelf speakers.

If that's how you want to do it - Pure Direct 2.0 and turning the bookshelf + sub into a tower system.

I prefer going the 2.2 route because I prefer using Audyssey XT/XT32 + DEQ.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The subs require MOST of the power. Most of the time, I think the tweeter and midrange require about 1 - 32 watts, probably closer to 1 - 2 watts. So something like the Denon X4000 (Audyssey XT32, dual sub output) will do the trick nicely.

Towers FULL RANGE will require more power than bookshelf crossover to powered subs.

 

[NewHTbuyer]

I asked SVS about two Ultra towers vs. a setup with two Ultra bookshelves plus two SB1000 subs. To summarize, the sub/sat setup has more output 16-32 Hz(obviously) and allows you to better control bass levels by moving the subs and manually adjusting the gain. The towers have a better integration of the drivers since they are all designed together and the mids and lower mids will be cleaner because the drivers are a little bit different with less thermal compression plus having two 6.5 inch midrange drivers lowers distortion due to less cone excursion. Also, the towers have a higher sensitivity rating.

they didn't say this, but I assume the sub sat combo would probably be better if you had a low powered amp or cheap AVR since the LFE will be handled by a separate amp.

it would be interesting to compare side by side to observe the audible differences.

 

[Jimz711]

I thought I would chime in and second an earlier post in that I prefer towers for music because I like to listen in pure direct mode with no sub. I can definitely see benefits to sub sat combos for home theater, but to me home theater is second to music.

Nothing more than one man's personal opinion though.

 

[Pyrrho]

I thought I would chime in and second an earlier post in that I prefer towers for music because I like to listen in pure direct mode with no sub. I can definitely see benefits to sub sat combos for home theater, but to me home theater is second to music.

Nothing more than one man's personal opinion though.

If your tower speakers are not as good with bass as your subwoofers, you are missing out on the deep bass in your music that you could hear with subwoofers. Most tower speakers are not up for really giving a full range sound.

 

[Jimz711]

If your tower speakers are not as good with bass as your subwoofers, you are missing out on the deep bass in your music that you could hear with subwoofers. Most tower speakers are not up for really giving a full range sound.

No argument there, as I do not try to run my towers full range for home theater. Apparently, my ears are quite satisfied missing some of the lowest bass with the sound of towers than having it with bookshelves. I can lecture my ears on the science but just like a poor student, they don't seem to care.

 

[Pyrrho]

No argument there, as I do not try to run my towers full range for home theater. Apparently, my ears are quite satisfied missing some of the lowest bass with the sound of towers than having it with bookshelves. I can lecture my ears on the science but just like a poor student, they don't seem to care.

Many people set their subwoofers too high, because they like it that way for home theater, but then complain that the bass is "boomy" for music, and so they prefer listening to their music without their subwoofer (which is set too high for a flat response). In my opinion, the best solution is to adjust the subwoofer such that "zero" at the receiver is flat, and then one can adjust it up for home theater use (if one likes it that way), and has an easy reference point for properly setting it for music to not be boomy.

Of course, people should do as they please, but I think many would like doing it as I suggest. In my case, I set it flat for home theater, so it is flat (and right) for music as well.

There is also the issue of the kind of music one listens to. A solo guitar, for example, is not going to require a subwoofer, and so with some music, it will make little or no difference if one is using a subwoofer or not.

 

[Jimz711]

I used to go back and forth with changing sub settings for music and home theater, and sometimes use a sub for music then sometimes not. What got me listening to towers full range was moving to an upstairs apartment. I'm sure once I move in a couple years, I will revisit the situation, but for now even during the day I just run the towers full range and enjoy it, and I'm not sure I would change it even without the need to be respectful of neighbors. Most of the music I listen to is also not heavily dependent on bass, which of course could be part of the reason.

 

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

The subs are going to have their own amplifiers built in, 5 channels was this for a theater or a music 2. ch. system? I was thinking this was thinking this was a music only system.

Yeah, a music only system. I am definitely sold on the bookshelf/subwoofer route. The only thing I am thinking about doing differently now is that I have a SACD player, not a lot of the discs, but a few. I am thinking doing the 5 channel amp just so I can add more speakers later and maybe finally run the SACD as it should be.

I had been looking at the Sierra-1 bookshelves that were recommended, but those were a bit out of my price range right now. Those ULS-15's look great too, but I am not sure I can fit that in my budget either. for the pre-amp, amp, 2 bookshelves and 2 subs I'd like to be at $3,000 or under. I may be able to push it for the right pair of Subwoofers.

I have seen recommendations for the VTF-1 MK2 and the SB-1000. Both are close in price. Which does everyone recommend? I like the down-firing aspect of the VTF-1 MK2, but I like the bigger speakers in the SB-1000. Which has the better low end?

Also... for bookshelves here are a few I looked at other than the ones mentioned. Are any of these good speakers/decent deals?

FOCAL CHORUS 706V BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.2 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

EPOS EPIC 2 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

also this sub

FOCAL CHORUS SW700V SUBWOOFER at Music Direct

 

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

The subs are going to have their own amplifiers built in, 5 channels was this for a theater or a music 2. ch. system? I was thinking this was thinking this was a music only system.

It will be a music only system and I have decided on the 2 bookshelves/2 subwoofer route. The only thing I have thought of doing differently is that I have an SACD player and I was thinking of getting more speakers later so I can run that properly. That is why I am considering 5 channel.

The ULS-15's look great, but I am not sure they are in my price range. I want to try and get the Amp, Preamp, 2 bookshelves and 2 subwoofers for less than $3,000. I may be able to go over that for the right Subs. I have been recommended the VTF-1 MK2 and the SB-1000 also. I like the floor firing aspect of the VTF-1, but the larger speakers of the SB-1000. Anybody know which is deeper?

I have also been looking at some other bookshelves on music direct and I am curious if any of these are good speakers/a good deal

FOCAL CHORUS 706V BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

EPOS EPIC 2 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.2 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

and this sub

FOCAL CHORUS SW700V SUBWOOFER at Music Direct

 

[ImcLoud]

If you want to do it all with a tower, try a pair of Cerwin Vega xls-215 's with a Crown XLS1500 , I have heard that setup {he actually has the 2500 crown amp but it was overkill} and no need for a sub there, lol.... Cerwin Vega has some pretty nice stuff I heard a pair of the powered cmx212's and they were intense, So much sound I could barely tell what was going on but clean, crisp, and LOUD, at lower volumes they sounded like five thousand dollar speakers for sure, but only cost $4K and came with amps.... Amazon.com: Cerwin-Vega CMX-212 4-Way Powered Speaker (Each, Black): Electronics Funny I heard them at a Tractor sale, in the show room they had them setup playing off of the owners cell phone.... impressive...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I asked SVS about two Ultra towers vs. a setup with two Ultra bookshelves plus two SB1000 subs. To summarize, the sub/sat setup has more output 16-32 Hz(obviously) and allows you to better control bass levels by moving the subs and manually adjusting the gain. The towers have a better integration of the drivers since they are all designed together and the mids and lower mids will be cleaner because the drivers are a little bit different with less thermal compression plus having two 6.5 inch midrange drivers lowers distortion due to less cone excursion. Also, the towers have a higher sensitivity rating.

they didn't say this, but I assume the sub sat combo would probably be better if you had a low powered amp or cheap AVR since the LFE will be handled by a separate amp.

it would be interesting to compare side by side to observe the audible differences.

I don't believe a word of what they said.

But it's utterly understandable. I mean why in the world would they say that the cheaper bookshelf could possibly be remotely better or even as good as the more expensive tower? Never going to happen.

The more EXPENSIVE speaker will ALWAYS be better. Every company will say that 100% of the time.

But, there is no right or wrong here. Just ideas.

 

[ImcLoud]

The more EXPENSIVE speaker will ALWAYS be better. Every company will say that 100% of the time.

But, there is no right or wrong here. Just ideas.

Not ascend they told me to go with the 340s over the sierra 1's for my HT, although I ended up buying them both hmm, maybe they tricked me... Also HSU talked my buddy out of dual subs for 1 sub (because of his room setup)... and Dan at Emotiva talked me out of buying an XSP1 and the xda1 because I was only hooking up the pure dock and he said "no need to clutter it up with too much electronics"!!!! Definitely part of the reason of why I am loyal to them companies, but they just happen to make some of the best for your money equipment on the market too....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not ascend they told me to go with the 340s over the sierra 1's for my HT, although I ended up buying them both hmm, maybe they tricked me... Also HSU talked my buddy out of dual subs for 1 sub (because of his room setup)... and Dan at Emotiva talked me out of buying an XSP1 and the xda1 because I was only hooking up the pure dock and he said "no need to clutter it up with too much electronics"!!!! Definitely part of the reason of why I am loyal to them companies, but they just happen to make some of the best for your money equipment on the market too....

Well, recommending one component over a more expensive component due to "need" is one thing.

Ascend won't tell you the 340s are unequivocally BETTER than the Sierra.

HSU won't tell you having one sub in a room is unequivocally BETTER than 2 subs.

I got the impression that SVS said the towers are unequivocally BETTER than the bookshelf.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

I guess I do not get it. How could a speaker that is over $1000 a pair have inadequate bass? I guess with my public teacher income and my wife's retirement income $1400 seems like a lot to spend on speakers. To each his/her own. Peace and goodwill.

 

[fuzz092888]

I guess I do not get it. How could a speaker that is over $1000 a pair have inadequate bass? I guess with my public teacher income and my wife's retirement income $1400 seems like a lot to spend on speakers. To each his/her own. Peace and goodwill.

It's all about design goals and considerations. It's pretty easy to have a $1000+ speaker have inadequate bass, especially since inadequate is a subjective term.