Need help choosing a pair of decent towers for less than $1400

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

I have 5 speakers I am interested in. Here they are from most expensive to cheapest along with some thoughts on each. Also some are bi-wireable and some are not. Is that a deal breaker to some of you? What is the main difference in sound? I am going to put these in a basement room that is 13x25 (the speakers would be on the 13 ft wall) with laminate wood flooring (less than ideal, I am sure). I tend to like things a bit "brighter" and generally tend to lower the midrange when eq-ing. I do have a subwoofer, but would like a bit of bass in the the towers also. Oh and lastly if you have seen better deals on these than I have seen let me know!

KEF Q900 $1300. I have heard these are great, but others have said they are a bit muddy in the midrange. I like the idea of the punch that comes with 8' drivers, but would they be bright enough?

Focal Chorus 716v/814v $850. I have heard these are nice and bright, but without a lot of bass. Lacking bass are they very warm?

HTD Level 3 $800. The frequency range and sensitivity with these is pretty awesome. I am just curious how they stack up to the others off paper.

EMP E55ti $700. Some have said these are great. Others have said they are a bit muddy and in the midrange and aren't as crisp or bright as the Focal's or HTDs, but they are said to have nice rich bass.

Epos Epic 5 $700. I like the look of these, but haven't heard a lot about how they sound.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The bass in the towers could be making the midrange "muddy" for some people. Why not just get bookshelf speakers and add more subwoofers for more bass? You could even place the bookshelf speakers on stands atop subs if space is limited.

 

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

What bookshelves do you recommend I look at? I do want the option to run just a 2.0 analog stereo with my pro-ject carbon turntable though too. not sure I want to do the bookshelf option, but I may consider it. If you place a bookshelf on a stand on top of a subwoofer isn't there vibration to contend with?

 

[ImcLoud]

Normally people wan't to stay away from a speaker with a bright high end... I hate bright speakers, they cause listener fatigue pretty fast. I had a pair of energy towers a while back that sounded great in the store, but when I got them home and spent a full hour in front of them, it was obvious they had to go back...

I recommend you listen to what you are thinking about buying...

I personally would go with a decent pair of bookshelfs and a sub 2.1 system, especially if you are worried about a muddy mid-low...

In my experience you could get a much better sound out of a pair of Sierra-1 Bamboo Loudspeaker and a medium sized sealed sub like the sb1000 SB-1000 - SVS ... That would cost under $1500 and give you a really good sound for music, I would go as far as to say you wouldn't find a set of towers that could sound as good for twice the money... I have a set of small evo2-08 bookshelfs with a 12" sub bookshelfs are crossed to the sub and its powered by a small mini X, that system sounds better than towers costing 4 times what I paid... Towers have their issues, and I like music with strong bass, where a 6.5" driver is never going to come close to sounding like a 10-12" subwoofer, also I think the tight cabinets that bookshelfs offer surpass the tower designs by far.. Don't get me wrong, I like towers too, my 2.2 system uses towers, but that is partially because I figured out the bookshelf and sub secret after I bought them, I had a very large room to fill with sound, and I will keep the subs off once and a while and not cross my towers for certian music, not often, but I have done it....

What are you using for processing and power? What is your actual budget? Look into the wharfedale diamond 10.7s for a stand alone tower WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.7 TOWER SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct and if money is less of an object the jade 7s have some of the tightest bass with a very defined mid and top end, that speakers that cost twice as much dont have WHARFEDALE JADE 7 TOWER SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct...

If you can find them the Opus 2-3's would be one of the top choices on my list of speakers that stand alone with no sub, also a lot of the high end Klipsch stuff may be worth a listen if you like your speakers on the bright side with out boring a whole in your eyeball after an hour... The heritage line is very capable, the rf7's may be worth a listen maybe even the rf82's, I heard they have a good low end and are very capable towers {I am not a klipsch fan though...}

maybe check out the ultra towers to http://www.svsound.com/speakers/ultra-series/ultra-tower#.Ufl3Ho2URqM but for $2000 I would rather have the sierra towers from ascend...


SORRY I NOTICED THE 1400 BUDGET after I posted, but that is what budgets are for, to be broken... For under $1400 I would be looking into ascend sierra books with a decent sub or a pair of diamond 10.7s

 

[WhiskeyTheHorse]

Right now I have a decade old Technics SA-DX750 that I will be upgrading concurrently with the speakers. I'd like a tube amp, but any other suggestions would be helpful with that too. I will probably make another post for suggestions in that purchase. I am not sure how much difference it makes to buy a phono stage separately or have on built in to the receiver.

 

[ousooner2]

The e55's definitely don't have a muddy midrange. They're very smooth and natural sounding. That's the #1 reason I tried them before my other choices. They haven't disappointed. If my space wasn't large, I'd be all over the e41b and 2 subs

 

[ImcLoud]

Depending on what you want to spend, there are a lot of options...
USP-1 Stereo Preamp | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplif with a UPA-200 | 125W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifi would be a decent setup for under $700. If you are going tube a bob carver black magic 20 is around $1600 now and a pair of black beauty 305s is around $8K and black cherries are around $6K, about half of what they used to cost before emo got involved... But that is a lot of money, I have a jolida 202 bought from music direct, they are around $1150 and to me about the best value to performance buy in integrated tube amps...
But the thing about tubes is, they don't sound as good as a solid state, they cost more per watt, and they are either breaking in or breaking down, tubes are expensive.... But they also add a little soul to the sound, they glow and add to the ambiance, more than just having a square box flash at you, and they are a nice conversation piece...

If you go tube, I would look into something more efficient since their output is lower. Energy, Klipsch, Zu, Tekton, ect....

But if you want the best sound and volume for your money, I would go with ascend sierra bookshelfs, that small svs sealed sub, and the emo amp and preamp, you would spend a little over $2K but it will be decent, and hard to beat for the money...

 

[cornelius]

You have a lot of great options in your price range...

Here are a couple of ideas:
Vandersteen 1C - Classic 1st order design, hasn't changed much over the years (good thing) - still a great price...
Ohm MicroWalsh Tall - These are real sleepers - easier to place than the Vandys - big, big natural sound.
Magnepan Super MMG - This is Magnepans direct order speaker system that is an amazing deal, but you'll need some room to set them up... And good power.

Come to think of it, all of these designs don't change much from year to year, which is always reassuring, IMO.. They're all US made (if that matters) - and a real nice intro to "high end" speakers...

 

[SearchofSub]

Sierra Towers with NrT upgrade? or you can try the Tekton Lore's. Both get very good reviews from owners.

 

[3db]

I have 5 speakers I am interested in. Here they are from most expensive to cheapest along with some thoughts on each. Also some are bi-wireable and some are not. Is that a deal breaker to some of you? What is the main difference in sound? I am going to put these in a basement room that is 13x25 (the speakers would be on the 13 ft wall) with laminate wood flooring (less than ideal, I am sure). I tend to like things a bit "brighter" and generally tend to lower the midrange when eq-ing. I do have a subwoofer, but would like a bit of bass in the the towers also. Oh and lastly if you have seen better deals on these than I have seen let me know!

KEF Q900 $1300. I have heard these are great, but others have said they are a bit muddy in the midrange. I like the idea of the punch that comes with 8' drivers, but would they be bright enough?

Focal Chorus 716v/814v $850. I have heard these are nice and bright, but without a lot of bass. Lacking bass are they very warm?

HTD Level 3 $800. The frequency range and sensitivity with these is pretty awesome. I am just curious how they stack up to the others off paper.

EMP E55ti $700. Some have said these are great. Others have said they are a bit muddy and in the midrange and aren't as crisp or bright as the Focal's or HTDs, but they are said to have nice rich bass.

Epos Epic 5 $700. I like the look of these, but haven't heard a lot about how they sound.

Personally, I like towers and a sub. I like running my towers full range when listening to 2 channel music and running them with a sub and the speakers crossover set to 80Hz for HT. It comes down to personal preference really even though many people prefer book shelves and sub over towers. Bookshelves also have their limitations as well as most bookshelves don't have the power handling of their tower brethren not being able to play as loud, especially in large rooms. Unless you listen to a lot of synth, rap or pipe organ music, most towers will be perfectly suited for 2 channel listening.




I would seriously look at the PSB Image T6 as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What bookshelves do you recommend I look at? I do want the option to run just a 2.0 analog stereo with my pro-ject carbon turntable though too. not sure I want to do the bookshelf option, but I may consider it. If you place a bookshelf on a stand on top of a subwoofer isn't there vibration to contend with?

Some tower speakers (even very expensive ultra high-end ones) are modular in that the tweeter/midrange cabinet is actually separate and sits atop a separate bass cabinet.

For example, the $19,000 RBH SX-T3P/R consists of 3 separate cabinets atop each other. The $60,000 flagship RBH T8 is also modular.

The $4,000 Phil3 consists of a tweeter/midrange cabinet atop the bass cabinet.

There are many more examples from different manufacturers from all price ranges.

Is there vibration due to very strong bass ? Of course there is, but there is also vibration on cabinets of the $15,000 Linkwitz Orion, $22,000 Salon2, $25,000 B&W 800D2, $30,000 KEF Blade, and $80,000 TAD R1 when there is serious strong bass. That is normal.

But for most music bass, there will not be vibration.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Over the years, I've noticed a lot people complain about "muddy midrange" and it seems a lot of times it is associated with bass-heavy music content. I've experienced this myself. But when they listen to the same song on speakers with less bass capability, the "muddy midrange" isn't as bad.

IMO, when you buy a tower, you are paying for potentially inferior bass that could potentially adversely affect the midrange.

The bass quality of many tower speakers, especially under $2K, will not be as accurate and tight as say a $467 HSU VTF-1 MK2 sub. The tower bass will have a Q-value of probably over 1.0, while the HSU can have a Q-value of 0.3 (as good as it gets). Lower Q-value means tighter bass. The distortion of the bass on many towers may be 10%, while the distortion of the bass from the HSU may be 1%.

So IMO, why pay for $2K towers with inferior bass that could "muddy the midrange"?

As far as which bookshelf speakers and subs, there are many out there to choose from. For example, the $219 each NHT Absolute Zero (critical listening window frequency response from 200Hz-10kHz +/- 0.9dB is as good as it gets). They had a sale on the Absolute Zero a few days ago of $175 each, so if you call them they may let you have the discount. They also give you 30-day trial.

So you get the best of both worlds IMO. Window RF +/-0.9 dB (as good as it gets for FR) for midrange and tweeter and Q of 0.3 (as good as it gets for Q-value) for tight bass. And the bass output will, of course, put most towers to shame.

HSU VTF-1 MK2 x 2 subs = $934 delivered, 18"H x 14"W x 17"D
NHT Absolute Zero x 2 = $438 (or $350 if they still give discount) delivered, 9.75"H 5.625"W x 7.25"D.
Wood Technology speaker stand FGH-26 $80, 5.5" x 5.5" top, 11" x 10" bottom, 26"H

Just one example of what I would do with the budget.

Don't you just hate all these possibilities ?

 

[NewHTbuyer]

Over the years, I've noticed a lot people complain about "muddy midrange" and it seems a lot of times it is associated with bass-heavy music content. I've experienced this myself. But when they listen to the same song on speakers with less bass capability, the "muddy midrange" isn't as bad.

IMO, when you buy a tower, you are paying for potentially inferior bass that could potentially adversely affect the midrange.

The bass quality of many tower speakers, especially under $2K, will not be as accurate and tight as say a $467 HSU VTF-1 MK2 sub. The tower bass will have a Q-value of probably over 1.0, while the HSU can have a Q-value of 0.3 (as good as it gets). Lower Q-value means tighter bass. The distortion of the bass on many towers may be 10%, while the distortion of the bass from the HSU may be 1%.

So IMO, why pay for $2K towers with inferior bass that could "muddy the midrange"?

As far as which bookshelf speakers and subs, there are many out there to choose from. For example, the $219 each NHT Absolute Zero (critical listening window frequency response from 200Hz-10kHz +/- 0.9dB is as good as it gets). They had a sale on the Absolute Zero a few days ago of $175 each, so if you call them they may let you have the discount. They also give you 30-day trial.

So you get the best of both worlds IMO. Window RF +/-0.9 dB (as good as it gets for FR) for midrange and tweeter and Q of 0.3 (as good as it gets for Q-value) for tight bass. And the bass output will, of course, put most towers to shame.

HSU VTF-1 MK2 x 2 subs = $934 delivered, 18"H x 14"W x 17"D
NHT Absolute Zero x 2 = $438 (or $350 if they still give discount) delivered, 9.75"H 5.625"W x 7.25"D.
Wood Technology speaker stand FGH-26 $80, 5.5" x 5.5" top, 11" x 10" bottom, 26"H

Just one example of what I would do with the budget.

Don't you just hate all these possibilities ?

Great post, lots to think about. Just to play devils advocate, if a tower is designed well, wouldn't the bass the be pretty tight and integrated well with the other drivers? Also, sometimes isn't it tough to get the sub and bookshelves to play well together?

I just got SVS Ultra towers awhile ago. Exactly $2,000. Maybe I should get a pair of Ultra bookshelves and a pair of PB1000 or SB1000 subs, which would also be exactly $2,000, and see for myself.

Great, now thinking about buying more stuff...the wife will freak!

 

[cornelius]

Great post, lots to think about. Just to play devils advocate, if a tower is designed well, wouldn't the bass the be pretty tight and integrated well with the other drivers? Also, sometimes isn't it tough to get the sub and bookshelves to play well together...

That's the big question: If a tower is designed well! IMO, the well designed towers are usually above this price range... With the exception of the floorstanders that I mentioned, I agree with AcuDefTechGuy - a pair of monitors and a good sub, could give great results. Like he said, with a tower you're potentially paying for inferior bass, and also paying extra for the bigger box (and its veneer) that's muddying up the mid-range. IMO the biggest offense from a system when it's integrated into one's home, is bass that's not managed well. Yes, it can be difficult to match a sub with a pair of monitors, but you'll at least have the option to control that bass, if you need to.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Great post, lots to think about. Just to play devils advocate, if a tower is designed well, wouldn't the bass the be pretty tight and integrated well with the other drivers? Also, sometimes isn't it tough to get the sub and bookshelves to play well together?

I just got SVS Ultra towers awhile ago. Exactly $2,000. Maybe I should get a pair of Ultra bookshelves and a pair of PB1000 or SB1000 subs, which would also be exactly $2,000, and see for myself.

Great, now thinking about buying more stuff...the wife will freak!

Lots of things to experiment with, huh?

I think "potential" is the key.

For one thing, I think a dedicated sub will have less distortion, tighter bass, more accuracy, and a lot more output. It will have it's own amp also. A bookshelf + sub will be like active bi-amping.

Let the midrange and tweeter be free from the big bad power "hungry woofs" so that it can play crystal clear.

Yes, integration is crucial.

For integration, I think the key is sub-EQ and/or Audyssey XT32 + DEQ. P

I wish SVS were still making their EQ-1 Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ standalone unit. I would buy one.

I tell you this. I prefer KEF 201/2 (2) + Funk 18 (2) over Revel Salon2 (no subs) any day.

I would even prefer KEF 201/2 (2) + RBH SX-1010N (2) over Salon2.

The bass from the Salon2 is generous, but not quite the impact and punch as dual RBH SX-1010N subs, and most certainly not even close to dual Funk.

And I am using Audyssey XT Flat + DEQ, but with manual speaker channel level setting. I like to set my levels to 80dB, not 75dB. And I also set by subs 6dB higher than speakers.

I always thought it would be cool to have 5 large full range towers so I could have big bass from all five speakers. But now I realize that the center channel and surrounds will never get any big dose of bass! It would be a total waste.

So now I am placing 5 KEF 201/2 atop 5 RBH SX-1010N subs and I will be getting big bass from all five positions. It's really like 5 large towers, but except better bass.

Again, integration is vital. And I think Audyssey Flat + DEQ will do a great job here, as long as I manually set the channel levels.

 

[Irvrobinson]

For one thing, I think a dedicated sub will have less distortion, tighter bass, more accuracy, and a lot more output. It will have it's own amp also. A bookshelf + sub will be like active bi-amping.

I tell you this. I prefer KEF 201/2 (2) + Funk 18 (2) over Revel Salon2 (no subs) any day.

I would even prefer KEF 201/2 (2) + RBH SX-1010N (2) over Salon2.

The bass from the Salon2 is generous, but not quite the impact and punch as dual RBH SX-1010N subs, and most certainly not even close to dual Funk.

Is it possible, ADTG, that what you really prefer is the ability provided by separate subs for you to alter the volume level of the bass separately from that of the rest of the spectrum?

I did run an experiment when I was bi-amping the Salon2s, where I inserted a separate pre-amp in the bass path, fed the identical signal as the mid-tweeter path, so I could adjust the bass level separately. I can tell you that the bass output available from the Salon2s is quite surprising. It would not have solved my bass problems, but I was curious if you has tried simply adjusting the bass output of the Salon2 separately?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is it possible, ADTG, that what you really prefer is the ability provided by separate subs for you to alter the volume level of the bass separately from that of the rest of the spectrum?

I did run an experiment when I was bi-amping the Salon2s, where I inserted a separate pre-amp in the bass path, fed the identical signal as the mid-tweeter path, so I could adjust the bass level separately. I can tell you that the bass output available from the Salon2s is quite surprising. It would not have solved my bass problems, but I was curious if you has tried simply adjusting the bass output of the Salon2 separately?

I was not even aware I could do that.

A bit onerous, though.

I am sure if they made the 3 x 8" Salon2 woofers into a dedicated sub, it would be nice.

Yes, I do prefer the separate/ modular bass approach.

Of course, 5 Salon2 + 5 subs would be like having 10 subs.

But, I was saying if the budget were limited to $2K towers, not $22K towers.

 

[3db]

That's the big question: If a tower is designed well! IMO, the well designed towers are usually above this price range... With the exception of the floorstanders that I mentioned, I agree with AcuDefTechGuy - a pair of monitors and a good sub, could give great results. Like he said, with a tower you're potentially paying for inferior bass, and also paying extra for the bigger box (and its veneer) that's muddying up the mid-range. IMO the biggest offense from a system when it's integrated into one's home, is bass that's not managed well. Yes, it can be difficult to match a sub with a pair of monitors, but you'll at least have the option to control that bass, if you need to.

You can also control the bass with towers too. That's a function of an AVR and not the speaker. The mids on my towers are life like whether the towers are played full range or not.

 

[cornelius]

You can also control the bass with towers too. That's a function of an AVR and not the speaker. The mids on my towers are life like whether the towers are played full range or not.

Right - I haven't had an amplifier with any kind of tone controls for a while now, so I forgot about that option... I miss my old integrated that had a nice 5-band EQ...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Of course, 5 Salon2 + 5 subs would be like having 10 subs.

That's what I found by measurement, that running the Salon2s full-range and adding one sub was like having three subs, which saved me from buying two subs. I would guess that any towers with strong, undistorted response to 32Hz would act similarly.