Need everyones opinion on sub purchase??

[ebterp]

Here is my current systesm
Receiver - Pioneer VSX-815
Mains - Bic DV-62SI's
Surround - Bic DV-52SI's
Center - Bic DV-62CLRS

Obviously I am trying to keep this to a budget but am willing to spend a little extra on sub if it makes sense. This is my first real home theatre setup in a small room 16X13. Here are my options with comments.

Cadence X-Sub 12 ($229) - heard some great things / price is right but there don't seem to be many out there a little concerned about that

Bic V1020 ($160) - Price and size are great - would this be a good place to start??

Bic V1220 ($178) - Similar to above but a little more performance and a little more size which is a negative

HSU STF-1 ($299) - price up a bit but still reasonable - maybe some concerns about not enough sub for movies

HSU STF-2 ($399) - this seems to fit the bill but is it worth the extra $150+ or more for a guy with this starter setup

SVS PB10 ($429) - STF-2 and this in same category

Give me your opinion.

E

 

[j_garcia]

Between the STF-2 and the PB-10, I'd opt for the PB-10 no question, but if you are looking to save some $$, the BIC 1220 would probably be a decent place to start, though their subs look a heck of a lot like the Parts Express Dayton 10" and 12" subs, which are actually cheaper. Nice warranty on the BICs though.

In a room that size, the STF-2 or PB-10 will be more than enough for a starter system.

 

[Takeereasy]

I too am looking to get a new sub and if I buy new I'm going with the x-sub. Cadence may be new to the HT game, but they are not new to audio. Based on some chats I've had with a x-sub owner or two I'm leaning that way over the Bic sub simply because it is louder. Louder is what I need right now. I know that the x sub and Bic cant hit 20hz, but there is not very much source material at all under 25hz. Also these two subs are 12" as opposed to 10". I think that that is a very big plus. Unless you are one of those guys that must have a sub hit 20hz I'd stick with the cheaper subs. As a side note all of the subs you've listed will do a great job in your room.

 

[Spiffyfast]

I think the Xsub is a steal at its price, after talking to Buck and his praises about the product, for the money I don't think you can go wrong. You get a 12" woofer 350 watt rms power and he said it weighs just under 50 lbs. Thats why I decided to go with it when I order a sub in about 2 weeks.

 

[j_garcia]

I know that the x sub and Bic cant hit 20hz, but there is not very much source material at all under 25hz.

You mean music or movies? There are PLENTY of movies out there that have content well below 20Hz. I saw a waterfall chart of one scene in the Incredibles that had some information in the 5 Hz range! Most music doesn't have stuff that low, but 20s are not out of the question.

 

[jotham]

Weight does matter

In this case, I would definitely consider the Parts Express 10" sub for $350.

Reasons :

1. It is sealed so there are less unusual bass peaks, no tuned port.
2. The description states that it has usable bass output to 30 hz. Chances are high, that this is accurate.
3. I put one together and know exactly what goes into it, it's very well made and a high quality driver.
4. It weighs 64 lbs. In the case of subwoofers, magnet weight and wood bracing does matter, thus the heavier weight (than a 12" Cadence)
5. Shipping is free, you don't pay a penalty for the extra weight.

The HSU and SVS are also great subs. I don't know about the Cadence but so far, I'm a bit suspicious (it's too light). It's very easy to buy cheap subwoofers but this is one area where cutting corners really shows. A well made 10" sub will kick the pants off of a poorly made 12".

This is just my opinion, please don't hurt me

 

[Takeereasy]

Even most movies don't often delve below 25hz. All of those great sounds in Twister are well above 20hz. I know that there are scenes in some movies; depthcharges from U571, scenes from the incredibles, etc,etc..) that utilize sub-20hz harmonics. I am aware that there might even be hundreds of movies that have bass under 25hz in the soundtrack. There are however thousands of movies that don't do this. And even in the movies that go into subharmonics only a tiny fraction of the movie occurs in that spectrum. I think that the cadence xsub will add as much enjoyability to a system as any of the other subs mentioned, including the HSU and SVS subs. I also recently heard the Bic 12" sub and almost the whole lineup of HSU subs. The Bic will keep up with the STF-2 no problem, I'd rather the Bic by a mile in fact. Don't get me wrong, some of my favourite movies have bass that my sub (or the X sub for that matter) can't get within a mile of reproducing, but no subs in this price category (sub $400 US) can with real authority IMO. Please don't show me charts of SVS hitting 20hz at 96 db or 93 db, whatever the number is guys, you don't need to defend your purchase to me.

Remember to tack on shipping to those HSU and SVS subs as well ebterp. I just think that in the "tight" budget category the better buy is either the Cadence or the Bic offering. If ebterp ups his budget again and can allow for a 12" then I'd heartily suggest the STF3, it's a great sub. I'm sure the SVS 12" subs are great too, but I haven't heard them. If it were me, and I had to choose between HSU and SVS 10" subs, and the Bic and Cadence 12" subs, it wouldn't be much of a choice. Again that's my opinion, and I'm by no means an audio authority, but I think I make a good case for my position.

 

[Takeereasy]

I don't know about the Cadence but so far, I'm a bit suspicious (it's too light).

It is 50 LBS. That's heavier than the HSU, but lighter than the other two you mentioned. I really like the looks of that Titanic sub as well, I wish I wasn't so afraid of DIY projects (reflection of my abilities, not the product itself).

 

[ebterp]

The bic subs intrigue me at their price point

Thanks for the input Takeereasy!! I guess I am concerned about putting to much cash out there for a sub when this is my first system. The V1020 has the benefit of being a bit smaller. I am wondering if at $160 this would be a good place to start. Do you know anyone else who has experience with the Cadence Subs??

EZ

 

[Spiffyfast]

Buckeyefan1 has the cadence sub and reccomends it all the time, do a search on the forum. He posted pics of it as well.

 

[jotham]

Shameless promotion

Continuing my shameless promotion of the Parts Express sub.

It is pretty small and non-descript but definitely not pretty.

It's 64 lbs and frigging heavy to move, especially for a 10".

It probably doesn't go as low as the Cadence but it will generate a large amount of output and it doesn't seem to ever exhibit auditory distress. It just gets louder until things start to move. I can't imagine what the 12" would do. For comparison, the 12" is 72 lbs.

As far as the DIY part is concerned, if you can put together furniture from IKEA, you can do this. It's a cakewalk. I'm not a woodworker so I picked this kit because it was brain dead simple. There is a good review on it that I'll include.

http://www.onhifi.com/product/dayton_titanicsub.htm

Chances are, you'll be very happy with whatever you buy. This is just one of the many good deals that are out there.

 

[Takeereasy]

I read the review of the Titanic on their site, seems like a good deal, there's no way around it. 64 lbs makes for a monster of a 10" sub for sure. There is something about a 12" sub though that I prefer.

I've seen the inside of the Cadence sub courtesy of Buckeye and the ebay Cadence site. The build quality seems to be fantastic. I wish I'd have known about some more of the great options in entry level subs before I bought my polk a while ago. Ebterp, I think that you are getting good advice from everyone(well meaning advice from me), and I don't think anyone is wrong, there is just a difference of opinion as to what to focus on. If you do go Bic I'd suggest you step up to the 1220, that's my 2 cents. The $20 or $30 more you spend will be a good investment IMO, even though the sub is bigger. The 1220 is 12" and really takes advantage of its decent sized enclosure. There is a rule that when it comes to subs bigger is better. It's a very generalized rule that can be circumvented in a manner but then you start looking at some bigger $$$ and some newer less generalized concepts being applied. The SVS 10" sub is bigger than the other 12" subs. The best advice I can give you is to get out there and demo the Bic to see if you like it for yourself if it's at all possible.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Do you want it for music or HT?

It is 50 LBS. That's heavier than the HSU, but lighter than the other two you mentioned. I really like the looks of that Titanic sub as well, I wish I wasn't so afraid of DIY projects (reflection of my abilities, not the product itself).

You can buy the 10" Titanic for $500 assembled, but for $150 in savings, I'd slap it together myself. It's an awesome unit, and at only 14x14x14 inches, very compact. The 12" would be preferred for HT. Partexpress says: "For a music-only system, this subwoofer is an excellent choice and will work well in just about all situations. In a home theater environment, this subwoofer is only recommended for small rooms or for those who want only moderate output levels." Dayton uses a killer driver, but IMO they skimp on the amp of 250 watts. For $350, they could have put in a beefier amp.

At least with the 12" Titanic, they give you a 500 watt amp. The 12" Titanic's cabinet is still a bit compact at 17x17x17, so it will fit snugly in tight corners, and do very well with music. At $536 (kit) or $686 assembled, it's definitely in a different category/price point. For music, I give it a thumbs up. For HT, you may be better served with an SVS or HSU in the much larger cabinets (STF-3 or PB12 ISD; both at $599)

For a basic entry level sub, it's hard to beat the Dayton 12" 150 watt unit. At $138, you'd be hard pressed to build one for less. It's definitely not for those looking to upgrade, but for the guy who has very limited funds, and wants something for HT and is considering those $99 10" units at BB and CC, it's the only way to go. No, it won't compare to the BIC or Cadence, but it's almost half the price.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Even most movies don't often delve below 25hz. .

But some CDs go to 5 Hz, like Telarc 1812

 

[ebterp]

Thanks to everybody!!!

Guys,

The amount of information on here is unreal. All of you are awesome. I am still debating my sub choice but will let you know as soon as I make a decision.

E