Need Advise on Equalizer to Existing System

[markw]

It helps to visualize the path the signal takes within the receiver.

it's just that I have always heard the recording output and input refered to as an "A/V loop".

Newbies tend to have problems grasping this concept. I guess this just comes naturally to me since these were common when I started in this hobby and only lately have they disappeared.

The term "loop" is only valid when the signal is returned into the signal path exactly where it left it.

When the "tape monitor" button is out, the signal just flows through the receiver. When you push it in, the path is broken, the signal goes out the "tape out" jacks, goes through through the eq/tape/whatever, and then comes right back in the "tape in" jacks. ergo, a "loop" right back to where it left the signal path.

Virtually all HT receivers have a "tape out" and a tape in, but it ain't a loop.

The tape out goes to a tape recorder (or something's ) input. But, to access the "tape in" you need to select it from the selector. That ain't a loop. That's just a way to make a recording and play it back in two steps. To call that an "A/V loop" would be a misnomer.

Again, the Crutchfield site pretty much nailed it.

 

[no. 5]

To call that an "A/V loop" would be a misnomer.

I never gave much though to if "A/V loop" is a misnomer or not, I just used it because it's what I've heard it called.
so, to avoid confusion in the futuer, what do you refer to the recored input/output as?

 

[markw]

to avoid confusion in the futuer, what do you refer to the recored input/output as?

Tape out and tape in. Two separate entities. Each operates independently of each other. the tape out always has a signal going out, at least an analog signal. To select the tape in, you must select if from the stereo's input selector.

In a monitor loop, while they still say "tape out and "tape in" on the back of yer classic stereo receivers, they, combined with that all-important front panel "tape monitor" switch, are essentially one entity with the switch controlling the signal flow. There's no need to change the main selector. Simply push the "tape monitor" button to access the incoming signal.

 

[blodg8]

But, in all fairness, it seems that you're not the only one around here who could benefit from understanding what it said.

ok Mark,

thanks for the info. I will take a look at my Denon receiver but I think my main concern is to get my main EQ only since the DVD has their own like DTS... Also, I was looking at Technical EQ -Technical Pro Professional Equalizer 10-Band w/Spectrum Analyzer do you think this is a good EQ? is this brand good for home use?

 

[highfihoney]

I really think an EQ will help tho. The reason why I know is that my Cousin has a pair of AR Mains and he is running from a Pioneer Integrated Receiver. (its pretty old model) He also has a EQ and his Treble is so high and clear. is it because his speakers are better?

First off i want you to know that i have owned & still own klipsch speakers & use them in a few of my smaller home systems,the reason im telling you this is so you understand that i am not slamming your speakers or trying to make them look bad because i do enjoy klipsch gear my own self.

Klipsch speakers are not the best in the world,they do not have the best sound,cabinets,components ect but there are a few things that klipsch speakers do better than most speakers on the market,they rock with very little wattage,they have tons of deep strong bass & they all have extended highs that can be cleanly heard while being powered by a transistor radio,also your speakers are not very placement specific meaning that they are designed to have a very large sweet spot & unless you have them set up backwards with the tweeters facing the wall then you can forget about placement causing you not to hear the highs.

You have something wrong that is causing you not to cleanly hear the high end,there could be any number of things going on but i strongly feel that your barking up the wrong tree by looking into buying an eq,you could have blown tweeters,damaged crossover components inside the speaker,faulty connection in the strap between the biamp terminals on the back of the speaker,speaker connections from the reciever to the speaker could be out of phase meaning that instead of + going to + & - going to - you could have a connection where + is going to - or vise versa.

Before you buy anything you need to determine a few things.

1 check all speaker wires to be sure that all connections are going to the right location & if there are any home made splices in the wire that are taped up check to be sure the connection is correct,+ to + & - to -.

2 as described above remove the strap from the terminal on the speaker & only hook the speaker wire to the top terminals,by unhooking the strap you are disconnecting the woofers from the tweeters & by using the top terminals only you will be sending wattage only to the tweeters & the woofers will not play sound,if the tweeters are blown they will rattle,sizzle,sound muffled or not play at all,if the tweeters will not make sound remove the tweeter & unhook it from the wires then get another speaker that you know works & hook it up to the exposed wires from the tweeter,if after doing this you still have no sound then you know the problem lies within the crossover,after removing the tweeter you should also unhook the speaker wire going into the back of the speaker cabinet & hook it directly into the tweeter,once again if there is no sound the tweeter is blown & if there is sound & the sound is not distorted then the problem is within the crossover & not the speaker.

You could also have a setting within the recievers set up menu that is not correct,im not familiar with your reciever but im sure it has settings to adjust the crossover & for different sound types,i'd re read the manual & check all the settings in the menu to be sure there isnt a setting error.

If you are not getting a whole lot of high end out of any klipsch speaker then i'd be willing to bet there is a problem with any of the things we have all listed in our responses as things to check but going out & buying an eq will only add to your headache.

 

[blodg8]

First off i want you to know that i have owned & still own klipsch speakers & use them in a few of my smaller home systems,the reason im telling you this is so you understand that i am not slamming your speakers or trying to make them look bad because i do enjoy klipsch gear my own self.

Klipsch speakers are not the best in the world,they do not have the best sound,cabinets,components ect but there are a few things that klipsch speakers do better than most speakers on the market,they rock with very little wattage,they have tons of deep strong bass & they all have extended highs that can be cleanly heard while being powered by a transistor radio,also your speakers are not very placement specific meaning that they are designed to have a very large sweet spot & unless you have them set up backwards with the tweeters facing the wall then you can forget about placement causing you not to hear the highs.

You have something wrong that is causing you not to cleanly hear the high end,there could be any number of things going on but i strongly feel that your barking up the wrong tree by looking into buying an eq,you could have blown tweeters,damaged crossover components inside the speaker,faulty connection in the strap between the biamp terminals on the back of the speaker,speaker connections from the reciever to the speaker could be out of phase meaning that instead of + going to + & - going to - you could have a connection where + is going to - or vise versa.

Before you buy anything you need to determine a few things.

1 check all speaker wires to be sure that all connections are going to the right location & if there are any home made splices in the wire that are taped up check to be sure the connection is correct,+ to + & - to -.

2 as described above remove the strap from the terminal on the speaker & only hook the speaker wire to the top terminals,by unhooking the strap you are disconnecting the woofers from the tweeters & by using the top terminals only you will be sending wattage only to the tweeters & the woofers will not play sound,if the tweeters are blown they will rattle,sizzle,sound muffled or not play at all,if the tweeters will not make sound remove the tweeter & unhook it from the wires then get another speaker that you know works & hook it up to the exposed wires from the tweeter,if after doing this you still have no sound then you know the problem lies within the crossover,after removing the tweeter you should also unhook the speaker wire going into the back of the speaker cabinet & hook it directly into the tweeter,once again if there is no sound the tweeter is blown & if there is sound & the sound is not distorted then the problem is within the crossover & not the speaker.

You could also have a setting within the recievers set up menu that is not correct,im not familiar with your reciever but im sure it has settings to adjust the crossover & for different sound types,i'd re read the manual & check all the settings in the menu to be sure there isnt a setting error.

If you are not getting a whole lot of high end out of any klipsch speaker then i'd be willing to bet there is a problem with any of the things we have all listed in our responses as things to check but going out & buying an eq will only add to your headache.

Thanks Highfihoney,

I was a little bit confuse when you say to unwire the tweeter and connect my speaker wire directly to the Tweeter speakers. does that mean I have to take the tweeter out from the speaker cabinet? I haven't try the test last night but will make an effort this weekend. I will post back. thanks

 

[blodg8]

First off i want you to know that i have owned & still own klipsch speakers & use them in a few of my smaller home systems,the reason im telling you this is so you understand that i am not slamming your speakers or trying to make them look bad because i do enjoy klipsch gear my own self.

Klipsch speakers are not the best in the world,they do not have the best sound,cabinets,components ect but there are a few things that klipsch speakers do better than most speakers on the market,they rock with very little wattage,they have tons of deep strong bass & they all have extended highs that can be cleanly heard while being powered by a transistor radio,also your speakers are not very placement specific meaning that they are designed to have a very large sweet spot & unless you have them set up backwards with the tweeters facing the wall then you can forget about placement causing you not to hear the highs.

You have something wrong that is causing you not to cleanly hear the high end,there could be any number of things going on but i strongly feel that your barking up the wrong tree by looking into buying an eq,you could have blown tweeters,damaged crossover components inside the speaker,faulty connection in the strap between the biamp terminals on the back of the speaker,speaker connections from the reciever to the speaker could be out of phase meaning that instead of + going to + & - going to - you could have a connection where + is going to - or vise versa.

Before you buy anything you need to determine a few things.

1 check all speaker wires to be sure that all connections are going to the right location & if there are any home made splices in the wire that are taped up check to be sure the connection is correct,+ to + & - to -.

2 as described above remove the strap from the terminal on the speaker & only hook the speaker wire to the top terminals,by unhooking the strap you are disconnecting the woofers from the tweeters & by using the top terminals only you will be sending wattage only to the tweeters & the woofers will not play sound,if the tweeters are blown they will rattle,sizzle,sound muffled or not play at all,if the tweeters will not make sound remove the tweeter & unhook it from the wires then get another speaker that you know works & hook it up to the exposed wires from the tweeter,if after doing this you still have no sound then you know the problem lies within the crossover,after removing the tweeter you should also unhook the speaker wire going into the back of the speaker cabinet & hook it directly into the tweeter,once again if there is no sound the tweeter is blown & if there is sound & the sound is not distorted then the problem is within the crossover & not the speaker.

You could also have a setting within the recievers set up menu that is not correct,im not familiar with your reciever but im sure it has settings to adjust the crossover & for different sound types,i'd re read the manual & check all the settings in the menu to be sure there isnt a setting error.

If you are not getting a whole lot of high end out of any klipsch speaker then i'd be willing to bet there is a problem with any of the things we have all listed in our responses as things to check but going out & buying an eq will only add to your headache.

Hi Highfihoney,

So, I tested my speakers without the strap and just the top terminals connected. My High does works and I did try to turn it up and it seems underpowered or the highs aren't that Loud and clear? I don't hear any cracking or anything. What should I do? This RF-25 said it can handle 125 watts for each speakers at 8ohms Impedence. What does it means. Can I go 4ohms on these speakers with higher wattage? I'm not sure how much power the Denon is giving out at Stereo mode. I will double check. should I get an extra Amp or the Equalizer?

I did also check with the Receiver and it doens't seem to have the Main out Loop for it but I can just hook up one component for my Karaoke setup. If I do get the Equalizer which one should I get? please advise.

I'm thinking of getting the Berhinger A500 for the extra amp. will that help out my mains? Or should I get a more efficient Mains. thanks again for the help.

 

[highfihoney]

Hi Highfihoney,

So, I tested my speakers without the strap and just the top terminals connected. My High does works and I did try to turn it up and it seems underpowered or the highs aren't that Loud and clear? I don't hear any cracking or anything. What should I do? This RF-25 said it can handle 125 watts for each speakers at 8ohms Impedence. What does it means. Can I go 4ohms on these speakers with higher wattage? I'm not sure how much power the Denon is giving out at Stereo mode. I will double check. should I get an extra Amp or the Equalizer?

I did also check with the Receiver and it doens't seem to have the Main out Loop for it but I can just hook up one component for my Karaoke setup. If I do get the Equalizer which one should I get? please advise.

I'm thinking of getting the Berhinger A500 for the extra amp. will that help out my mains? Or should I get a more efficient Mains. thanks again for the help.

Looking for "more efficient mains" will be fruitless,your speakers are some of the most efficent on the market,there is a problem somewhere but its highly doubtfull that the speakers effiency is the cause,if your tweeters are playing undistorted then the problem is not with the speaker itself,if i were you i'd spend some time playing around with the settings in the reciever,i mentioned reading the manual & rechecking all the settings within the recievers set up menu,it sounds to me like either the reciever has an internal eq that is set up poorly or the crossover point is adjusted wrong.

Is there an internal eq within the reciever?

What do you have the crossover point inside the reciever set at?

Try your speakers on anything else that they can hook up to like a boom box or an all in one system or even borrow your friends reciever or intergrated to check the sound & see if the problem persists.

You now mention buying a behringer a500 in hopes it will make better sound from more power,understand that all tweeters use very little wattage,usually less than 10 watts,if the problem was lack of loudness from the total sound & not just the tweeters an external amp would work great but the problem is isolated to the highs which does not indicate a power issue.

You should also understand what running an external eq does,no matter how you adjust the external eq if your reciever has an internal eq that is being used the end result will be the sound from the internal eq,for an external eq to do its job properly if there is an internal eq it would need to be shut off or put in bypass.

I just cant help but think right from the start of this that you have something within the reciever set up wrong because the type speakers you have are extremely efficient with highs that are usually thought by many to be overpowering,the usual questions about your speakers from others are how do i tame the high end from being so bright & overpowering not what you describe.

 

[blodg8]

Looking for "more efficient mains" will be fruitless,your speakers are some of the most efficent on the market,there is a problem somewhere but its highly doubtfull that the speakers effiency is the cause,if your tweeters are playing undistorted then the problem is not with the speaker itself,if i were you i'd spend some time playing around with the settings in the reciever,i mentioned reading the manual & rechecking all the settings within the recievers set up menu,it sounds to me like either the reciever has an internal eq that is set up poorly or the crossover point is adjusted wrong.

Is there an internal eq within the reciever?

What do you have the crossover point inside the reciever set at?

Try your speakers on anything else that they can hook up to like a boom box or an all in one system or even borrow your friends reciever or intergrated to check the sound & see if the problem persists.

You now mention buying a behringer a500 in hopes it will make better sound from more power,understand that all tweeters use very little wattage,usually less than 10 watts,if the problem was lack of loudness from the total sound & not just the tweeters an external amp would work great but the problem is isolated to the highs which does not indicate a power issue.

You should also understand what running an external eq does,no matter how you adjust the external eq if your reciever has an internal eq that is being used the end result will be the sound from the internal eq,for an external eq to do its job properly if there is an internal eq it would need to be shut off or put in bypass.

I just cant help but think right from the start of this that you have something within the reciever set up wrong because the type speakers you have are extremely efficient with highs that are usually thought by many to be overpowering,the usual questions about your speakers from others are how do i tame the high end from being so bright & overpowering not what you describe.

Hi Highfi,

Well...I have my crossover set at 80hz and I don't think it has an internal EQ except for the Dolby feeds and like widescreen/Matrix/cinema...etc. those are like the DSP stimulation. Are those the EQ you're talking about? when I tested the speakers with only the Tweeters it was pretty clear but seems a little low. what setting could it be? I have the Denon AVR-3803 and I have gone thru all settings. My tone control for the Treble had set to the highest at +10db and still doesn't sound right. I am very confuse now. I might have to visit a local store to listen to the same RF speakers i have. Should i change my main and try to sell this pair i have? or i might have to get another reciever and test it out that way. Do you think this will be a good way of testing it?

 

[highfihoney]

Hi blodg8,is there a way you can hook your speakers up to any other peice of equipment before buying anything ?

Im not familar with your reciever but the type internal eq i was thinking of is just like an external full range eq only built in,i do not have much experience with newer model surround recievers as i mainly run 2 channel systems so until you test your speakers on another peice of equipment im out of suggestions.

I saw your other thread about more efficient speakers & i also saw the response,unless there is something terribly wrong in the speaker i cant see speaker efficiency being an issue.

This suggestion will cost you a few bucks & some time but if you cant make any headway with this you could call a local hifi shop & see if they will let you bring your gear in & have them set it up & go through all the functions,they would also be able to hook your speakers up to a different reciever or amp to see what they sound like .