S

st0mp

Enthusiast
i currently have a Yamaha 5560 with jbl speakers and sub and 2 kenwood towers on B channel. yeah kinda old but still works. i have always been content with the sound quality. but not real happy i think my speakers is never reaching full peak speakers at 100W 8oms but receiver is 75w 8oms. anyway,

i just updated my TV and blue-ray(sony ps3) and got a Sony kdl55hx800 Tv and a ipod touch. the ipod prob will be my last apple device i would like to move to android in time. and currently building a new house. in the new house im working on a hideaway for stereo, router, cable box. so heat is a consern also when picking out a new receiver my tv and blue-ray can do 3d. and i do not want to go broke over this.

but i want the best bang for the buck. thinking i prob want to try to reuse the speakers that i have now, needs to have streaming, dlna 1.5 be able to be controlled ether web browsers control or ipod/android control needs to be able to control hidding behind a wall.. thinking that CEC hdmi would allow me to do this now? extra zones would be nice i prob could use at lest 3 zones but if cost is to high im willing to just put a ipod dock into other rooms if it cuts price down. and maybe a extra power outlet on back of receiver? if they do this anymore thinking about connecting a fan with the power so when receiver turns on a fan will also.

was at best-buys yesterday. got to compair the rx-a1000 and the rx-a810 in same room and same speakers to me the 810 sounded alot better then the 1000 almost bought the rx-a3000 for 1100$ until i heard the difference between the 810 and 1000 tossed the idea of the 3000 out the window kinda figure the 3000 going to sound like the 1000 but for vol level? after all same reciver just more channels and more wats. right?

now im kinda looking at the denon AVR-3312CI the thing thats catching my eye on the denon is the THD is down to All Channels Rated @ 0.05 the rx-a3000 is down to .06 but the rx-a2000 and below are .09 on the yamaha's or should i just save a bunch of cash and get something like the rx-v671?
P.S. im mainly a movie buff more then music buff and i think i could make use of 2 hdmi outputs.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
please be a bit more specific with models of your speakers.
If you concerned about audio quality and looking to get a best bang for your buck - speakers is where you should concentrate.
AVR features are expensive and do not improve audio quality
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
JBL northridge series N24's x 4, + center, , JBL PB10 sub
kenwoods now on channel B, JL-980 x2,

I know everything i got is kinda getting old but i figured i could prob upgrade later time on speakers if i can do cheap enough with min. quality loss. i have considered maybe getting speakers into my ceiling or walls if cost is acceptable would like to keep total cost down to a max of 1500 ATM prob will be willing at a later time to sink about 1000 into speakers down the road just not atm. but kinda need the AV unit soon so i know what im doing with the wireing in the house before the drywall is up.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
i currently have a Yamaha 5560 with jbl speakers and sub and 2 kenwood towers on B channel. yeah kinda old but still works. i have always been content with the sound quality. but not real happy i think my speakers is never reaching full peak speakers at 100W 8oms but receiver is 75w 8oms. anyway,

i just updated my TV and blue-ray(sony ps3) and got a Sony kdl55hx800 Tv and a ipod touch. the ipod prob will be my last apple device i would like to move to android in time. and currently building a new house. in the new house im working on a hideaway for stereo, router, cable box. so heat is a consern also when picking out a new receiver my tv and blue-ray can do 3d. and i do not want to go broke over this.

but i want the best bang for the buck. thinking i prob want to try to reuse the speakers that i have now, needs to have streaming, dlna 1.5 be able to be controlled ether web browsers control or ipod/android control needs to be able to control hidding behind a wall.. thinking that CEC hdmi would allow me to do this now? extra zones would be nice i prob could use at lest 3 zones but if cost is to high im willing to just put a ipod dock into other rooms if it cuts price down. and maybe a extra power outlet on back of receiver? if they do this anymore thinking about connecting a fan with the power so when receiver turns on a fan will also.

was at best-buys yesterday. got to compair the rx-a1000 and the rx-a810 in same room and same speakers to me the 810 sounded alot better then the 1000 almost bought the rx-a3000 for 1100$ until i heard the difference between the 810 and 1000 tossed the idea of the 3000 out the window kinda figure the 3000 going to sound like the 1000 but for vol level? after all same reciver just more channels and more wats. right?

now im kinda looking at the denon AVR-3312CI the thing thats catching my eye on the denon is the THD is down to All Channels Rated @ 0.05 the rx-a3000 is down to .06 but the rx-a2000 and below are .09 on the yamaha's or should i just save a bunch of cash and get something like the rx-v671?
P.S. im mainly a movie buff more then music buff and i think i could make use of 2 hdmi outputs.
I think you should checkout Pioneer Elite series - as they pack tons of features yet still have a good value. Nothing wrong with Yammi's but they tend to have a bit less features
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
i have never been a big fan of Pioneer but im keeping open mind at this time. when looking at them from the web site VSX-50 460$ unit compaired to the yamaha V671 for 422$ and the denon AVR 1912 455$ granted the yamaha does not have that airplay (the denon has it) but is dlna 1.5 and win7 cert Most of my media plays on dlna. All have ipod apps, yamaha going to put out a app for android from what i read this month. Pioneer and the denon both at 90W yamaha 125W with a .09 THD the denon .08, Pioneer? dont say could not find it on pioneers web site. Pioneer's limit on 4 hdmi when the denon and yamaha both have 6 this i want another AV unit thats going to last me for another 10 years i use 4 now need room to upgrade with in the next 10 years or atlest 5-8
But heat is still a big concern.
I still think i could use a extra HDMI output as well
Im by far from a expert at this. if there is something im not seeing that i should please do tell.
I picked them 3 units because i felt they kinda matched in class and they had what my basic needs are. also should note everything is prob going to run directly to receiver then one line out to Tv But for maybe my 3d blue-ray (ps3) so it will be dealing with switching inputs.
and im not sure what one will give me better sound quality?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
JBL northridge series N24's x 4, + center, , JBL PB10 sub
kenwoods now on channel B, JL-980 x2,
Changing receivers, will not make much difference with those speakers.
You will be more modern in the A/V world - however you will not gain
much, in over all sound.
 
Last edited:
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
It will make a big difference dont see how it will not at this time. unless you like doing things the hard way? building a house, made a central location for my network units receiver included. need to pick out the AV unit so i know how im going to run my wiring in the walls for the extra zones or not. maybe even a extra hdmi? speakers i can update later in time after i pick out my living room suit and i know how everything is going to be setup. speakers once house is up is easy to change out but if i need to run more lines in the house its not going to be as easy with all the drywall up. so im just looking for a receiver at this time. but it needs to be a decent one. that once when the living room is ready ill pick out the speakers everything will fit in. starting to run out of time on it though drywall goes up thursday.
 
96cobra10101

96cobra10101

Senior Audioholic
The shift keys are towards the right and left. Give 'em a try.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
The shift keys are towards the right and left. Give 'em a try.
and Enter will make a new line - it's be very helpful to others, whom you ask advice from...

And another point - "It [AVR] will make a big difference dont see how it will not at this time"

Me and another veteran AH told you - it'll not make difference as far as audio quality goes. Features - yes, you'll get much more - maybe even new audio auto config with mic will help fix some of the room modes issues, but that's about it.

You are entitled of course to have your own opinion, but it just may be not the right one....
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
but not real happy i think my speakers is never reaching full peak speakers at 100W 8oms but receiver is 75w 8oms.
The speakers don't have a "full peak". That's just an arbritrary rating. THe difference between 100w, and 75w, is 2.2 decibels. In fact, I addressed this exact confusion about amp/receiver matching in this thread of mine: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75823

so heat is a consern also when picking out a new receive
All receivers will produce heat. You need to have adequate ventilation, no matter what.

thinking i prob want to try to reuse the speakers that i have now,
Don't expect to get much upgrade in sound quality from adding a new receiever. You might get some small increases in output but nothing memorable. Your audition at best buy was not indicative of what you'll be experiencing IRL. IRL, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between any of those receivers in source direct mode at the same SPL.

It will make a big difference dont see how it will not at this time.
And adding a new remote control will make movies so much clearer, and upgrading from a PS3 to a PS3 slim will make gaming so much better.... oh... wait...


Look, I'm not saying not to get a new receiver if you need modern features, but if you want to improve your sound quality, here's five tips I'll give you

1) Do things to the room in order to clean up bass response. Bass, and small rooms, are not friendly with each other. Thick bass traps along corners are a place to start, right while you're still designing the room.
2) Do things to the room in order to improve spectral balance and decay as desired. The room is a big part in what you hear, so adding things like well placed reflection, absorption, and diffusion will make a bigger difference than a receiver will. Floor, ceiling, front wall, back wall, side walls, it really helps to figure out what is appropriate to get the room sounding its best at the SPLs you listen at, to the content you listen to. You mentioned you are more of a movie guy, so you might have an inclination to a more dead room. Movies are mixed for an RT60 around 300ms, and most rooms have an RT60 around 500 to 600ms, so you've got your work cut out for you but luckily you're still in the room construction process if i read it correctly.
3) Get better speakers - better measuring, better sounding, more sensitive, better power handling, whatever it is, better. Whatever suits your situation, we can help you figure that out when you get to it.
4) If you're going to add power, make it a meaningful increase in power (IE 6db more headroom). 2.2db more headroom is nice and all, but all the receivers you're looking at, are around 100w to 140w receivers. The difference between 100w, and 140w, is 1.5db You're better off getting a less potent receiver with better features, and supplementing it wiht an external Emotiva XPA3 amp or something like that. The difference between 75w and 200w, is 4.2db which is closer to a meaningful increase in headroom. Still nowhere near as meaningful as getting significantly more sensitive speakers though. All the above said, your N24s are flat out wimpy and will not benefit much from more power. Even if they're rated for 100w, they're probably already distorting by the time you're pouring 40 to 50 watts into them.
5) Go with multiple, large, subwoofers. One sub won't cut it if you want' the best bass in a real room. I recommend three. We can recommend you some kickass subs when you get to it.


So the number one goal for you right now, should be to run back and really re-assess what's going on with the room. Improve the ventilation, acoustics, bass trapping.
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
Sorry i guess my goals are not very clear. Maybe its the loss of caps in my statement?

Goal's: get a new Av Now and then the surround sound with in 6 months That is going to last me another 10 years...

Find out what AV unit to get before the drywall is up. So i can run the proper lines for the speaker placement and zones.

Heat concerns: no all AV units are not the same temp. Some generate more heat then others this is not my first AV unit. Granted i only keep up on tech when im ready to upgrade.. But dont some av units still have heat sinks? Some av units can give lots or little air flow? case design? that dont matter no more?

When i stated about reusing the speakers that i have now was to be a temp thing i wanted to move to a 7.1 speaker system after house is finished and i figure out how i want to setup my living room.

And the big difference im talking about is running all my wiring inside my wall. Then putting up the drywall. Instead of having to shove lines in walls with insulation. Then finding it and cutting it out and placing it. thats the difference im talking about audio install. Lol not some remote or move to a ps3 slim WTH was that anyway?

And yes i already read what ya had in that post. actually read it the other day.

Eather way that's not even what im trying to get too. the fact is i have a older system setup should not even be part of the problem here. I wanted to show ya my taste where im coming from and where i want to go. Im not asking to revive my 10 year old system. Im wanting a new setup.

Im getting the AV unit asap then once the house is finished then ill be moving in and getting speakers down the road. Until then ill be using the JBL's. I dont expect a big sound boost at this time. Its when im going to be adding the new speakers on move in day. Then ill be expecting a big difference between systems. My jbl's will be going in garage with the old Yamaha.

"run back and really re-assess what's going on with the room."
I have walls up but the drywall is not up yet what should i look for?
room is 15'x13' with a 6'x6' window on one wall. 2x6 on 2 walls with 5.1/2" of insulation other 2 walls are no insulation 2x4

I'll be the first to tell ya i by far from knowing it all or else i would have not came here. But im not some sheep that just pulled up ether.. despite your ps3 and remote comment.

But thank you for the idea of the base traps. And the room prep. I did not even think about doing something like that and the other things i should do to room.

So far the av picks im getting down too. Is the rx-a810 yamaha cost and reliability and Denon 3312.

Not sure if that Denon will output 2 different inputs at same time? like 1 output watch a dvd 2nd output from cable box/radio? And last me for 10 years like my old Yamaha.

And sorry to boardsysadmin and 96cobra. ill make sure ill goto grammar forums and ask them what AV unit to get. If that helps any.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Heat concerns: no all AV units are not the same temp. Some generate more heat then others this is not my first AV unit. Granted i only keep up on tech when im ready to upgrade.. But dont some av units still have heat sinks? Some av units can give lots or little air flow? case design? that dont matter no more?
There are some real dogs out there, but unless we're talking about 60lb separates amps and dedicated separates pre/pros, you can essentially expect plenty of heat from a mid-level receiver. You always want good ventilation.

I have walls up but the drywall is not up yet what should i look for?
room is 15'x13' with a 6'x6' window on one wall. 2x6 on 2 walls with 5.1/2" of insulation other 2 walls are no insulation 2x4
I am not an expert on room design but I strongly recommend stoppin right there before the drywall goes up, and getting in touch with and discussing the room construction, with trained professionals, like the guys at GIK acoustics!!

http://www.gikacoustics.com/contact_us.html

Getting a low noise floor is another thing. Little ambient noisy things things like fans, AC, fridges, furnaces are not your friend.

Here is the audioholics board for discussing this stuff:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

And the AVS and Home theater shack equivalents:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=3

Getting rooms that are extremely friendly to audio, is best done in the construction process instead of retroactively, so you're lucky!!
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Sorry i guess my goals are not very clear. Maybe its the loss of caps in my statement?

Goal's: get a new Av Now and then the surround sound with in 6 months That is going to last me another 10 years...

Find out what AV unit to get before the drywall is up. So i can run the proper lines for the speaker placement and zones.

Heat concerns: no all AV units are not the same temp. Some generate more heat then others this is not my first AV unit. Granted i only keep up on tech when im ready to upgrade.. But dont some av units still have heat sinks? Some av units can give lots or little air flow? case design? that dont matter no more?

When i stated about reusing the speakers that i have now was to be a temp thing i wanted to move to a 7.1 speaker system after house is finished and i figure out how i want to setup my living room.

And the big difference im talking about is running all my wiring inside my wall. Then putting up the drywall. Instead of having to shove lines in walls with insulation. Then finding it and cutting it out and placing it. thats the difference im talking about audio install. Lol not some remote or move to a ps3 slim WTH was that anyway?

And yes i already read what ya had in that post. actually read it the other day.

Eather way that's not even what im trying to get too. the fact is i have a older system setup should not even be part of the problem here. I wanted to show ya my taste where im coming from and where i want to go. Im not asking to revive my 10 year old system. Im wanting a new setup.

Im getting the AV unit asap then once the house is finished then ill be moving in and getting speakers down the road. Until then ill be using the JBL's. I dont expect a big sound boost at this time. Its when im going to be adding the new speakers on move in day. Then ill be expecting a big difference between systems. My jbl's will be going in garage with the old Yamaha.

"run back and really re-assess what's going on with the room."
I have walls up but the drywall is not up yet what should i look for?
room is 15'x13' with a 6'x6' window on one wall. 2x6 on 2 walls with 5.1/2" of insulation other 2 walls are no insulation 2x4

I'll be the first to tell ya i by far from knowing it all or else i would have not came here. But im not some sheep that just pulled up ether.. despite your ps3 and remote comment.

But thank you for the idea of the base traps. And the room prep. I did not even think about doing something like that and the other things i should do to room.

So far the av picks im getting down too. Is the rx-a810 yamaha cost and reliability and Denon 3312.

Not sure if that Denon will output 2 different inputs at same time? like 1 output watch a dvd 2nd output from cable box/radio? And last me for 10 years like my old Yamaha.

And sorry to boardsysadmin and 96cobra. ill make sure ill goto grammar forums and ask them what AV unit to get. If that helps any.

As I said before I recommend Pioneer Elite units since, unlike regular none-Elites - they pack significantly better components and still have wide range of features you are looking for. Yamaha's A series are good too and they added a lot of new good features.

Lets me give one give of advice about your budget - I don't really know what the final budget you're planning so I assume $2500 it is.
If you to purchase $1000 receiver now you'd need to spend over 5-6k in speakers just to make it worth. I gotta run now, but I'd strongly recommend you to rethink avr features - what's really needed and what's a whim.

Get solid refub from ac4l and start putting money down towards speakers.

ps: your previous post is much easier to read - thank you
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
Thank you for them links hopefully i can get a reply. Thursday is when they putting up drywall. i might get them to push it off a week maybe..

I dont think i can talk the wife into changing the floor TBO. but alot of the other stuff i see looks like i might be able to pull off.

Will a high-level receiver have better cooling? maybe like the rx-a3000 or so?
And on the budge yeah about 2500 is where i want to be at after speakers.

On the Pioneer thing, Sorry maybe im just to old but back when i use to be into audio. Pioneer was lucky to build something that would hold up for 3 years let alone 10.

They learned how to go cheap long time ago build for $$ not quality could be alot different now maybe? they had bad problem building good transistors. always made things burn out after time.

Kinda even iffy on the denon lasting me 10

And there will be a vent in that spot where im putting all network stuff. I just dont want to have to run a fan 24/7

now Features that i see im in need of. Pretty much if it has DLNA 1.5 i can get what i want to get on the unit. 2 HDMI output's hopefully from 2 different sources.

I know the yamaha does NOT do this:( has 2 outputs but only from same source. Hdmi CEC control so all my other devices can talk to it.

The airplay thing from apple i can do with or with out it looks interesting does kinda get my eye on streaming video from ipod to receiver though.. but tbh with dlna 1.5 i can just stream it from my server (just not video) from my understanding. Plus i know i will be moving to android as soon as i see a new eula agreement saying i have to give up my first born son and pay child support.

Another would like to have is Zones as many as i can. I know i could easy setup 4 zones 2 with tv image and 2 without. but here i can drop if needed need at min 2 zones. One for each hdmi output. this will save me overtime the need for a extra cable box. I dont like extra monthly bills... extra box is 20$ a month 240$ a year i can dump into the receiver.

P.S. room setup if i can put all equipment in the area i want will be right between the living room and the main bedroom. a 6 foot hdmi will reach both rooms. bed room is just getting 2 ceiling speakers to help on space. same with the other zones if i have that option

Sound quality is also in need. i have nice Tv does 3d i want to make it feel like your right there. already caught the wife reaching out for stuff wile watching a movie. Was funny. And that was with my 10 year old yamaha using the digital out on the tv to receiver and my 10 year old jbl's :)

Also another need its going to be handling most of the hdmi switching so im thinking needs to have decent video processing? i think maybe? Was told yes i need and and No i dont. i dont want to see any delay when watching a 3d video think that could be upsetting.. read some receivers can bog down 3d. I dont want to run into this. I might run that line direct in Tv but then i lose out on a few things. so i kinda rather not if possible.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Ironically enough, if you want the coolest running units, I suspect they're from Pioneer, with their latest class D amp technology.. ruh-roh!
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
Lol figures..think ill relocate my receiver before i get a pioneer. I got to call denon Monday see if that 2 hdmi outs can do what i need. If they cant. im going to drop the need for the 2 hdmi outs.

If that is the case where it does not output 2 difference sources at same time ill have to figure another way to kill off the need for a 2nd cable box.

Been thinking about what you said. on the 5k speaker thing for a receiver thats 1,000. Im not willing to dump 5k in speaker set at all.

I like the looks of the EMP Impression E55Ti 7.1 Tower System the one for 1900 and get something like the rx-v671 along with it?

Also seen you guys have a speaker package with the Yamaha rx-a810 for 2500 with Klipsch RF-62 II Home Theater Package. Granted i want to get away from black in my living room though. Them E55Ti seams like a good looking speaker. everything in living room going to have that wood look.

Got to wait till Monday to find out if its going to be that Denon or not.
All-though i did see today the rx-a2000 for 880 expires today though.

on the wiring of the room. going to be putting in the wiring for 4 different zones. ill just setup room so l8r on down the road if i get a 4 zone the lines will be ready
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
Yeah the dlna 1.5 i really want i built my network around this. I run media server and a few other little toys thats dlna 1.5.

The 3d as of right now with my old yamaha i run a digital line out from tv to receiver. Hdmi from ps3 to tv. it dont do bad i guess but i personally dont like it.

only thing i kinda want but can do with out if i have too is the 2x hdmi outs.

Im dropping Denon from the list of possible receivers. They have no working contact phone numbers to ask pre-sales questions. Yamaha did not have a prob with this contact them 24/7. Denon i had to wait until today for store hours then found out the contact number on page is no good. All contact phone numbers are not working from Denons site. I like a little support if they want my cash...

Going to look more in that Marantz. See what i can find to fit my bill.

got all the wiring laid out already on house:) cant wait to see my living room with out wires going everyplace.
 
S

st0mp

Enthusiast
Denons phone worked today. But still not going to get one. Still got eyes set on the rx-a810.

Thought long and hard on this convo. Think you are right on the speakers. So this is my thought now.

Get the rx-a810 and a pair of EMP Impression E55Ti Tower Speakers and use the jbl sub and other speakers i have to make a 7.1 and then if im not totaly happy add new surround speakers down the road? And maybe sub or do you have a better set of towers that would be better for me?
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Denons phone worked today. But still not going to get one. Still got eyes set on the rx-a810.

Thought long and hard on this convo. Think you are right on the speakers. So this is my thought now.

Get the rx-a810 and a pair of EMP Impression E55Ti Tower Speakers and use the jbl sub and other speakers i have to make a 7.1 and then if im not totaly happy add new surround speakers down the road? And maybe sub or do you have a better set of towers that would be better for me?
I have the EMP e55tis and they're a nice, balanced sounding speaker. I am not a fan of the e5Ci center personally.

But you really NEED a good sub or two. JBL might have some good subs to offer(some of their high end stuff is deadly), but I doubt the one you've got is going to cut the mustard.

I would be looking at a pair of Rythmik FV12s or something.
 

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