Need advice on sound quality difference between 2 older systems.

R

RH Clark

Enthusiast
My current system is needing repair to my Preamp ( B&K 4090) which I have been quoted at $200. I'm using a B&K ST 140 (70wpc) to drive 2 Medowlark Heron speakers. I have been very happy with this set up in sound quality and volume.

I can either get my preamp repaired, but no warranty, or purchase a B&K AVR 507 (7X150w into 8ohms) off local Facebook for $100( no warranty). The B&K does have the ability to convey all information into a 2 speaker stereo mode according to the manual.
The AVR 507 doesn't have HDMI outputs ,so I wouldn't use it as a surround with my TV, but just to replace my amp and preamp.

My question is, assuming good working order,, would the B&K AVR 507,being higher wpc, equal or perhaps exceed the sound quality of my amp and preamp combo? Spending a lot more money is not possible. You wouldn't believe how little money I have in the system now.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
With a two channel system, in a non-video setup, I would absolutely take advantage of used gear that's out there. Many older surround sound systems have really fallen out of favor because of their lack of HDMI. It's shameful that you can't buy cheap HDMI receivers with pre-outs to pair to really nice amplifiers, but that loss really is your gain. Top shelf AV receivers are all over the place with really good components in them that absolutely kill what you could otherwise purchase.

I would snap it up in a second if it fits your specific needs.

I know I'm struggling with my old Yamaha RX-Z1, which has top-shelf components in it, but is just useless to me at this point. *sigh*
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
My current system is needing repair to my Preamp ( B&K 4090) which I have been quoted at $200. I'm using a B&K ST 140 (70wpc) to drive 2 Medowlark Heron speakers. I have been very happy with this set up in sound quality and volume.

I can either get my preamp repaired, but no warranty, or purchase a B&K AVR 507 (7X150w into 8ohms) off local Facebook for $100( no warranty). The B&K does have the ability to convey all information into a 2 speaker stereo mode according to the manual.
The AVR 507 doesn't have HDMI outputs ,so I wouldn't use it as a surround with my TV, but just to replace my amp and preamp.

My question is, assuming good working order,, would the B&K AVR 507,being higher wpc, equal or perhaps exceed the sound quality of my amp and preamp combo? Spending a lot more money is not possible. You wouldn't believe how little money I have in the system now.
That is a difficult proposition. I would not put money into an AV processor that old. It probably will be good money after bad. I also would not invest in an AVR that does not have HDMI.

I have had a look on eBay and pickings are pretty slim all around at the moment.

However this unit would meet your requirements very well.

I have had two of these in use for quite a long time. That is the best bet I can find for you and it would be an upgrade from your failed unit.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I wouldn't worry about sound quality per se, at least not just based on the power ratings between the two B&K units, and the power difference isn't all that great between the two amp sections either, but it has pre-outs so you can see if you have a preference to the B&K 507's on board amps or your power amp. I'd worry more about the features/connectivity you want, your power amp has a reasonable sensitivity rating so should work with most pre-amps/avrs in any case.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My question is, assuming good working order,, would the B&K AVR 507,being higher wpc, equal or perhaps exceed the sound quality of my amp and preamp combo? Spending a lot more money is not possible. You wouldn't believe how little money I have in the system now.
Neither one of those amps are rated for 4 ohm speakers, but based on specs I would bet the 150 W, 0.09% THD+N rated 507 will drive your speakers better than the 70 W (8 ohms) rated ST140.

For $100, if the 507 is in good working condition, it would be a better choice. If you only need the basic inputs, you can look for a cheap (<$100) preamp and continue to use the ST140.

Here's one that will outperform the BK ST140 and AVR507:
Denon AVR-3805 7.1 Surround AV Receiver - Great Condition! | eBay
 
R

RH Clark

Enthusiast
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the time you took to look for eBay deals for me. I actually have never purchased from ebay,so I will look into it.

Peng- Yes, I basically only need a preamp with input for my CD player and output to my amp. When you mention something less than $100, do you mean off eBay, or can I buy something new? I searched initially but didn't find anything.

lovinthehd- You mention that my amp should work with most AVR's. I thought I would have to either use my amp with a preamp or use an AVR alone. That's why I have been looking for an AVR with higher output. I was considering the B&K 507 because it is a 50lb beast with high output. I don't know much at all about home audio. It seems maybe I should learn a bit more first. Could I use any AVR with my ST 140?

Could you guys direct me where to learn proper set up?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the time you took to look for eBay deals for me. I actually have never purchased from ebay,so I will look into it.

Peng- Yes, I basically only need a preamp with input for my CD player and output to my amp. When you mention something less than $100, do you mean off eBay, or can I buy something new? I searched initially but didn't find anything.

lovinthehd- You mention that my amp should work with most AVR's. I thought I would have to either use my amp with a preamp or use an AVR alone. That's why I have been looking for an AVR with higher output. I was considering the B&K 507 because it is a 50lb beast with high output. I don't know much at all about home audio. It seems maybe I should learn a bit more first. Could I use any AVR with my ST 140?

Could you guys direct me where to learn proper set up?
The pre-outs on an avr enable the use of external amps, i.e. they also can act as a pre-pro/pre-amp.....
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I am one of the few here on AH that have owned B&K gear, so I thought I'd chime in. I had a B&K AVR 507 that I bought used in 2009, and replaced about 1½ years ago. My short answer to your question about the 507 is don't buy it. See below for reasons why.

In general, I agree with most of what others have already said.
My current system is needing repair to my Preamp ( B&K 4090) which I have been quoted at $200. I'm using a B&K ST 140 (70wpc) to drive 2 Medowlark Heron speakers. I have been very happy with this set up in sound quality and volume.
Nice speakers. I remember hearing them in an audio shop many years ago. You haven't asked, but you should certainly keep the speakers and the B&K ST 140 amp.
I can either get my preamp repaired, but no warranty, or purchase a B&K AVR 507 (7X150w into 8ohms) off local Facebook for $100( no warranty). The B&K does have the ability to convey all information into a 2 speaker stereo mode according to the manual. The AVR 507 doesn't have HDMI outputs ,so I wouldn't use it as a surround with my TV, but just to replace my amp and preamp.
I assume you are aware that B&K went out of business a number of years ago (2010?), and their customer support no longer exists. This becomes an important reason why not to buy a used AVR 507.

When I bought my AVR 507 used, it was shortly after B&K came out with a new model with HDMI inputs & outputs. Nervous audiophiles, eager to have the latest toy, were dumping their pre-HDMI units, and I picked up the 507. It was a very good system, and I liked it, with several exceptions. I used in a 5-channel HT/music system, and over the years I regretted not having HDMI. It made hooking up TVs, newer disc players such as a Blu Ray disc player, and other digital streaming AV devices, much more complex. You don't seem to have that particular problem. That AVR did allow for adding external amplifiers, as you had asked. But that is also available with other AVRs.

I would have kept the AVR 507 but during 2020 it's onboard software started gradually misbehaving. At first, I could ignore it, but it eventually got much worse. I could no longer turn it on or off. Other software-based control problems could pop up and vanish with alarming frequency. Apparently, the hardware of the AVR was working fine, but without the control software, it became useless. I replaced it with a Denon AVR-X4500H.

For what it's worth, the B&K AVR 507 was very heavy and got very hot as it ran. I don't know for certain if the heat contributed to it's demise.

Because B&K had closed, I could not send it to the factory for reinstalling the software. If you buy anything of the same vintage of the AVR 507 you should be aware of this severe problem. This lack of factory support also applies to the remote control that B&K supplied with this AVR. For both of these reasons, I recommend that you do not buy it. If repairing your old B&K AVP 4090 can really be done for $200, that seems a useful option.
My question is, assuming good working order, would the B&K AVR 507,being higher wpc, equal or perhaps exceed the sound quality of my amp and preamp combo? Spending a lot more money is not possible. You wouldn't believe how little money I have in the system now.
There are other 2-channel audio pre-amps or older (more reliable) AVRs that can be combined with external amps that will get the job done for you. I wouldn't worry about any loss of sound quality, as most of that comes from your speakers, not the audio pre-amp.

You mentioned you use an older CD player. Does it hook up to the pre-amp by analog (the old standard stereo pair of RCA interconnects), or does it hook up digitally with a single optical or coaxial cable? Is it capable of both methods? Does your old AVP 4090 have an on-board digital-to-analog processor that would accept a digital feed, or did it require an analog feed from the CD player? This might be of importance when looking for a replacement for the AVP 4090.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the time you took to look for eBay deals for me. I actually have never purchased from ebay,so I will look into it.

Peng- Yes, I basically only need a preamp with input for my CD player and output to my amp. When you mention something less than $100, do you mean off eBay, or can I buy something new? I searched initially but didn't find anything.

lovinthehd- You mention that my amp should work with most AVR's. I thought I would have to either use my amp with a preamp or use an AVR alone. That's why I have been looking for an AVR with higher output. I was considering the B&K 507 because it is a 50lb beast with high output. I don't know much at all about home audio. It seems maybe I should learn a bit more first. Could I use any AVR with my ST 140?

Could you guys direct me where to learn proper set up?
Yes I meant off e-Bay. For a new preamp with factory warranty, even the simplest one that has one pair of RCA input will cost more than your $100 budget. If you can live with just one pair of analog inputs, there are some reasonable choice among many of those made in China ones.

Amazon.com: SUCA AUDIO Bluetooth 5.0 Vacuum Tube Preamplifier with Bass Mid Treble Control for Home Audio Hi-Fi Stereo Headphone Amplifier with Remote Control RCA/Bluetooth USB U Disk Input : Electronics

Or for just a touch more ($119):

Amazon.com: Schiit Magni Heresy 100% Op-Amp-Based Headphone Amp and Preamp : Electronics

If you can stretch your budget to $149, the Topping L30 has specs (verified by bench test measurements) that will beat any of some of the audiophile brand preamps such as those by Parasound, Cambridge Audio, may be even McIntosh's that cost 10 to 20 times more in terms of accuracy/transparency. Obviously the down side is that it is essentially just an active volume control device in the most basic form.

The L30 can drive your B&K ST140 easily and in terms of audio specs and sound quality, it will out match the ST140 by a wide margin. Highly recommended if you don't mind going 50% over your budget.

Amazon.com: [New Version] Topping L30 Mini HiFi Amp Audio Hi-Res Headphone Amplifier NFCA Preamplifier (Black) : Electronics

Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Then again if the 507 is in working condition for $100....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the time you took to look for eBay deals for me. I actually have never purchased from ebay,so I will look into it.

Peng- Yes, I basically only need a preamp with input for my CD player and output to my amp. When you mention something less than $100, do you mean off eBay, or can I buy something new? I searched initially but didn't find anything.

lovinthehd- You mention that my amp should work with most AVR's. I thought I would have to either use my amp with a preamp or use an AVR alone. That's why I have been looking for an AVR with higher output. I was considering the B&K 507 because it is a 50lb beast with high output. I don't know much at all about home audio. It seems maybe I should learn a bit more first. Could I use any AVR with my ST 140?

Could you guys direct me where to learn proper set up?
Yes, you can use an AVR with your ST 140, but the AVR must have preouts. These are usually only found on the upper end AVRs. You will get nothing decent new for $100.00
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the time you took to look for eBay deals for me. I actually have never purchased from ebay,so I will look into it.

Peng- Yes, I basically only need a preamp with input for my CD player and output to my amp. When you mention something less than $100, do you mean off eBay, or can I buy something new? I searched initially but didn't find anything.

lovinthehd- You mention that my amp should work with most AVR's. I thought I would have to either use my amp with a preamp or use an AVR alone. That's why I have been looking for an AVR with higher output. I was considering the B&K 507 because it is a 50lb beast with high output. I don't know much at all about home audio. It seems maybe I should learn a bit more first. Could I use any AVR with my ST 140?

Could you guys direct me where to learn proper set up?
This unit seems a very good deal and has preouts. This should drive your system fine.

New units seem to be out of your budget, so finding a good used unit is your best option.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
With a two channel system, in a non-video setup, I would absolutely take advantage of used gear that's out there. Many older surround sound systems have really fallen out of favor because of their lack of HDMI. It's shameful that you can't buy cheap HDMI receivers with pre-outs to pair to really nice amplifiers, but that loss really is your gain. Top shelf AV receivers are all over the place with really good components in them that absolutely kill what you could otherwise purchase.

I would snap it up in a second if it fits your specific needs.

I know I'm struggling with my old Yamaha RX-Z1, which has top-shelf components in it, but is just useless to me at this point. *sigh*
I agree. The sound quality of a
With a two channel system, in a non-video setup, I would absolutely take advantage of used gear that's out there. Many older surround sound systems have really fallen out of favor because of their lack of HDMI. It's shameful that you can't buy cheap HDMI receivers with pre-outs to pair to really nice amplifiers, but that loss really is your gain. Top shelf AV receivers are all over the place with really good components in them that absolutely kill what you could otherwise purchase.

I would snap it up in a second if it fits your specific needs.

I know I'm struggling with my old Yamaha RX-Z1, which has top-shelf components in it, but is just useless to me at this point. *sigh*
I agree. The sound quality in a high Fi autdio system is almost entirely speakers and room acoustics. If you like your speakers with the old unit, you will like them just as well with the new one. One nice thing about audiophoolery is the availability of excellent used equipment that was replaced with different excellent equipment. Been there. Done that.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
@RH Clark

A number of people here have suggested that you consider an older AVR (with pre-amp output jacks) to replace your old AVP. It occurred to me that you do not now have a TV set with your 2-channel system.

Most, if not all, AVRs assume the user has a TV set wired into the system – the controls and user instructions are displayed on the screen. Even when playing CDs with my Blu-ray disc player, it displays track selection controls & info over my TV screen. It may be possible to get along without a TV, but I think you may find it awkward, difficult, and irritating, at best. Don't overlook that as you decide what to do.
 
R

RH Clark

Enthusiast
I really appreciate everyone's input so far. I think I am going to wait a while and try to educate myself more before a purchase. My budget isn't limited to $100. That was just my " let's take a chance on it" budget.

I would like to have my system integrated with my TV. I don't want or really need more than my 2 speakers. If I went with an AVP using preout to my amp, will all the sound info automatically be sent through to the preout in such a configuration? I Know that in a multi channel configuration different info goes to different speakers so that you don't hear everything if for instance you are missing a center speaker.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
good move, wait, save your $$ so as to have more and better options.

just to be sure, your intent is 2 channel listening correct ? what are your sources........Lp, CD, streaming ?

oops ....... just read your last post(my bad), looks like multi-channel and TV are part of the mix, sorry, I was gonna suggest just get a nice used 2 channel pre-amp
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I really appreciate everyone's input so far. I think I am going to wait a while and try to educate myself more before a purchase. My budget isn't limited to $100. That was just my " let's take a chance on it" budget.

I would like to have my system integrated with my TV. I don't want or really need more than my 2 speakers. If I went with an AVP using preout to my amp, will all the sound info automatically be sent through to the preout in such a configuration? I Know that in a multi channel configuration different info goes to different speakers so that you don't hear everything if for instance you are missing a center speaker.
A multi channel receiver can play 2, 3, 5,7... channel contents. You can configure your speakers layout in the speaker menu based on what you have and/or like.
 

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