Need advice on audio system for computer/office $1k - $1.5k

[stevos2005]

I need advice on an audio system for my computer/office. I spend a lot of time working on my computer listening to music. I spend most of my time listening to MP3s, CDs, and streaming audio ("high bandwith" XM Radio online).

I understand that the source quality is not the best, so there's no point in getting anything "high end".

I currently have a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi with Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers. I've had the Klipsch for over 6 years, and one of the satellites bit the dust, so it's time for something new.

I was thinking of the following:

- Yamaha Receiver (thinking RX-V463, which is their cheapest with the Burr-Brown DACs) Would it be worthwhile to spend the extra $100 for a 563 or $200 for the 663 (which adds Digital Top-ART), or is that overkill??

- B&W AS1 subwoofer (As I'll be working, I won't be playing the system loud & don't need that much bass)

- B&W speakers. I've always been a fan of B&W and like their sound. I was considering the LM1, but I've never heard them. I would consider the M1, although I've never heard them and am not sure what their price is and if they're worth it for this system. Both the LM1 and M1 are good from a space standpoint. I could possibly "fit" the B&W 686, but their size would not be ideal. Would the 686 be much of an improvement over the LM1 or the M1 for price/performance?

In summary:
- I want something that will sound much better than the Klipsch ProMedia speakers I've had; however, this is not a high end system as the sources aren't the best.
- Budget is $800-$1500 (if it's worth spending this much)
- I will be sitting 3-4 feet from the speakers

Finally, would it be worth upgrading to an M-audio soundcard with a digital out and send the coax digital output directly to the receiver?

I appreciate the advice.

 

[bandphan]

Have you considered powered stuido monitors? You can simplify your setup by not adding an avr. Upgrade the soundcard + powered monitors for around 500-600.

 

[cubbie5150]

Have you considered powered stuido monitors? You can simplify your setup by not adding an avr. Upgrade the soundcard + powered monitors for around 500-600.

I recently went through the same thing, and started w/ powered speakers. TBH, the first thing I did was re-rip CDs into ALAC (I'm a Mac user), then I spent $500 on a Apogee Duet (DAC), then bought AudioEngine A5's (powered speakers) for $350. Well, after a month, I dcided to upgrade!! Sold my A5's on another forum for a minimal loss. I then bought a Music Hall A25.2 Integrated amp, Epos ELS-3 bookshelf speakers, and a Hsu VTF-1 powered sub. Given my room (~1500 cubic feet), and the fact most of my listening is nearfield, this setup is pretty darn good--sounds terrific, IMO.

If I were you, I'd consider first what you point out anyway--the actual music source your listening to. And, again, just my opinion, it might be worth your while to take a look at an external DAC (USB or optical) as well.... I can't even describe what a difference the Apogee Duet made in sound quality, and Macbook Pros are said to have decent native audio capabilities.

Not to sound snobbish, but your consideration of B&W speakers for this application indicates you have really good taste!! I'm a sucker for English speaker companies (heck, I bought Epos after all, even though they're the low end)... I'm just wondering if those would be the best speakers for nearfield listening?? Or am I assuming too much that's what your listening position would necessarily be?

 

[jcPanny]

Computer setup.

Check out the M-Audio stereo soundcards for about $100. The Analog output will be better than the D/A on a Yamaha receiver. Spend the remaining funds on a small stereo amp and the desired speakers and sub.

 

[stevos2005]

Have you considered powered stuido monitors? You can simplify your setup by not adding an avr. Upgrade the soundcard + powered monitors for around 500-600.

I would potentially consider powered studio monitors, but I really like the sound of B&W speakers. I never really liked the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 - they never really worked right, but they were better than most other "computer speakers".

Which powered studio monitors do you recommend?

 

[stevos2005]

It seems to be the general idea that soundcards other than the popular Creative X-Fi series would offer much more.

I'm reading that the Apogee Duet DAC is only useful on Apple Computers. I will be using a Windows based computers, so I need something that will be compatible with XP Pro and Vista Ultimate.

M-Audio is mentioned a lot. Which M-Audio sound cards do you recommend that are currently produced?

Is it true that the M-Audio sound card would have a better DAC and analog output stage than one of the Yamaha receivers I mentioned above? The reason I ask this is would the analog output stage be subject to the EM interference by being around computer components?

Also, what do you think of the B&Ws I mentioned for this application? Has there been any experience with the LM1 vs. the M1 vs. the 686? I don't care about low frequencies, as I'll have a separate sub.

How would the $500-600 powered monitors compare to the B&W speakers with the Yamaha receiver?

I mean, I could always get a Rotel RB-1050 amp to power the speakers, but controlling the volume would be a bit awkward without a preamp, unless M-audio has sound cards with volume controls on them?

Hmm... maybe that'd work - an M-audio sound card with built-in preamp (if they make such a thing), Rotel RB-1050 amp, and mini B&W speakers?

Is this overkill, or does this sound good? I appreciate your opinions.

 

[WmAx]

Let me ask you stevos2005: are you interested in the most [actual/measurable/relevant] performance for your dollars? Or are you interested in the coolest/neatest names/brand names?

I can help you with the former if you are serious. If the latter - the standard thread replies will help you better than I.

-Chris

It seems to be the general idea that soundcards other than the popular Creative X-Fi series would offer much more.

I'm reading that the Apogee Duet DAC is only useful on Apple Computers. I will be using a Windows based computers, so I need something that will be compatible with XP Pro and Vista Ultimate.

M-Audio is mentioned a lot. Which M-Audio sound cards do you recommend that are currently produced?

Is it true that the M-Audio sound card would have a better DAC and analog output stage than one of the Yamaha receivers I mentioned above? The reason I ask this is would the analog output stage be subject to the EM interference by being around computer components?

Also, what do you think of the B&Ws I mentioned for this application? Has there been any experience with the LM1 vs. the M1 vs. the 686? I don't care about low frequencies, as I'll have a separate sub.

How would the $500-600 powered monitors compare to the B&W speakers with the Yamaha receiver?

I mean, I could always get a Rotel RB-1050 amp to power the speakers, but controlling the volume would be a bit awkward without a preamp, unless M-audio has sound cards with volume controls on them?

Hmm... maybe that'd work - an M-audio sound card with built-in preamp (if they make such a thing), Rotel RB-1050 amp, and mini B&W speakers?

Is this overkill, or does this sound good? I appreciate your opinions.

 

[bandphan]

I would potentially consider powered studio monitors, but I really like the sound of B&W speakers. I never really liked the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 - they never really worked right, but they were better than most other "computer speakers".

Which powered studio monitors do you recommend?

http://www.zzounds.com/item--FOSPM05MKII as an example, I only made the recommendation based on your listen distance.

 

[stevos2005]

Let me ask you stevos2005: are you interested in the most [actual/measurable/relevant] performance for your dollars? Or are you interested in the coolest/neatest names/brand names?

I can help you with the former if you are serious. If the latter - the standard thread replies will help you better than I.

-Chris

I'm all about performance & substance, especially price/performance, and I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

I only mentioned certain brands, as those are brands I'm familiar with. I mentioned B&W because I have auditioned plenty of speakers for my main system, and I prefer the B&W 800 series above anything else I've heard for the price. I know that series is overkill for this application, and I would not want to spend that much for this application, but I assumed their other series would perform relatively well to their price - of course, I would have to listen first.


Thanks.

 

[jcPanny]

Is it true that the M-Audio sound card would have a better DAC and analog output stage than one of the Yamaha receivers I mentioned above? The reason I ask this is would the analog output stage be subject to the EM interference by being around computer components?

Hmm... maybe that'd work - an M-audio sound card with built-in preamp (if they make such a thing), Rotel RB-1050 amp, and mini B&W speakers?

The M-Audio cards have a very good signal to noise ratio, better than the Yamaha receiver and most other electronics. You should be able to get similar performance with a USB D/A but they tend to be more expensive.

Of course your PC software can adjust the volume. The software and soundcard hardware are your "pre-amp" in this setup.

 

[stevos2005]

USB or Firewire QUALITY soundcard?

I would definitely be interested in a high quality external soundcard connected via USB2 of Firewire, if such a thing exists. That way, it would be very portable and work not only with my main computer, but bring laptops alive at parties, etc.

Does any such product, from M-Audio or otherwise, exist? I know Creative makes such a product, but I've heard it and it sounds horrible and very processed - not quality at all. I would be willing to pay several hundred for such a card.

 

[WmAx]

I would definitely be interested in a high quality external soundcard connected via USB2 of Firewire, if such a thing exists. That way, it would be very portable and work not only with my main computer, but bring laptops alive at parties, etc.

Does any such product, from M-Audio or otherwise, exist? I know Creative makes such a product, but I've heard it and it sounds horrible and very processed - not quality at all. I would be willing to pay several hundred for such a card.

I must make it clear: even most mediocre add-on PCI and USB units will be audibly transparent. Most of the E-MU models are superb, measurably; far beyond what is needed for the human hearing system. If you heard 'processed' anything, it is either a case of incorrect settings/fx options or mental based bias(the same psychological bias is present with sound cards as it is with cables or other things).

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

I'm all about performance & substance, especially price/performance, and I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

I only mentioned certain brands, as those are brands I'm familiar with. I mentioned B&W because I have auditioned plenty of speakers for my main system, and I prefer the B&W 800 series above anything else I've heard for the price. I know that series is overkill for this application, and I would not want to spend that much for this application, but I assumed their other series would perform relatively well to their price - of course, I would have to listen first.


Thanks.

Let's try to fit in maximum quality into your price range. If you will go slightly over the 1.5k mark, you can get a reference quality system that will be able to achieve sound quality far beyond what you would normally expect from anything anywhere around the dollars spent - and this is based on actual measurable parameters - not some silly subjective claims I made up.

- Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 Speaker Pair ($350)
- Emotiva LPA-1 Amplifier ($500)
- Behringer DCX 2496 DSP Management/Xover System ($270)
- Pair of Infinity Kappa Perfect 12VQ 12" Drivers ($360)
- Pair of 302-810 pre-finished 2 cubic foot sub cabinets from partsexpress.com($320)

The above list gets you 2 extremely linear speakers that have only cabinet resonance as their coloration(as do most speakers regardless of price range - few speakers address this coloration). The response is remarkably flat on axis and within a considerable off axis window. The distortion is good - below audibility for all practical intents and purposes for music listening unless you use them well over 100dB. The subs I recommend are not retail units - because - you will not/can not purchase retail subwoofers that will perform anywhere near the level that these drivers will for the dollars spent. These are incredibly low distortion drivers. Just cut a hole in the pre-finished sealed cabinets with a router or even a jigsaw and then drill two tiny holes on the back to add two binding posts. So easy - you don't need ANY skills to do this. These drivers will outperform Velodyne DD-12 high-end sealed subwoofers, measurably. The amp I specified will power both the subs and the mains. The DSP processing unit is CRITICAL. It will provide for perfect integration between the subs/sats(you just need a cheap SPL meter from Radio Shack) and it will allow you to shape the response of the neutral monitors I specified, allowing you to obtain any sound signature that you so desire(this is not possible on a speaker that does not have a neutral response to begin with).

-Chris

 

[mouettus]

I'm no audiophile but I'm no slouch either. I can tell you that my SoundBlaster Live! (budget 5 channel PCI card, 8 years old) plays just fine with a Mini-to-RCA adaptor connected to my integrated. Sound card should not be accountable for bad audio quality.

 

[mouettus]

For those of you who got a subwoofer on their computer setup, does it sound weird? Near field on speakers is one thing but near field on a sub firing at your tibias is another.

And since my integrated doesn't have a sub output, should using the line level inputs/outputs be as good?

 

[WmAx]

For those of you who got a subwoofer on their computer setup, does it sound weird? Near field on speakers is one thing but near field on a sub firing at your tibias is another.

And since my integrated doesn't have a sub output, should using the line level inputs/outputs be as good?

Nearfield is fine for bass as well - it simply needs to be integrated properly.

The only proper way to integrate is to use active crossover with fine adjustments on both the high pass output feeding the mains and on the low pass outputs feeding the sub(s). Some sound cards have built in active crossovers, with a Left/Right output jack and a separate Sub output jack. However, the versatility will not likely match the DSP device I suggested earlier unless you are running special software drivers for the card. OEM drivers usually provide very simplistic/insufficient settings/adjustments that will not likely integrate the subs to the mains ideally - usually(but not always) causing the perceived effect of non-seamless bass response transition from sub(s) to mains.

-Chris

 

[mouettus]

Nearfield is fine for bass as well - it simply needs to be integrated properly.

The only proper way to integrate is to use active crossover with fine adjustments on both the high pass output feeding the mains and on the low pass outputs feeding the sub(s). Some sound cards have built in active crossovers, with a Left/Right output jack and a separate Sub output jack. However, the versatility will not likely match the DSP device I suggested earlier unless you are running special software drivers for the card. OEM drivers usually provide very simplistic/insufficient settings/adjustments that will not likely integrate the subs to the mains ideally - usually(but not always) causing the perceived effect of non-seamless bass response transition from sub(s) to mains.

-Chris

wow. i don't have an advanced setup as you might think lol. Like I said, I have a soundblaster Live! connected to an integrated with no sub output.

http://www.pc-max.de/images/tests/creative_sb_live/sb_karte-slot_l.jpg
. Line In
. Mic In
. Line Out (mains)
. Line Out (rears)

Those are the only connections I have. All minis

 

[WmAx]

wow. i don't have an advanced setup as you might think lol. Like I said, I have a soundblaster Live! connected to an integrated with no sub output.

http://www.pc-max.de/images/tests/creative_sb_live/sb_karte-slot_l.jpg
. Line In
. Mic In
. Line Out (mains)
. Line Out (rears)

Those are the only connections I have. All minis

What do you think of my item suggestions? Are they too far above your budget? You can save a few hundred using another speaker - but the speaker will require some minor modifications physically (15-20 minutes of work per speaker - using low cost materials and no special skills), and will not be quite as good as the Ascends for near field use.

-Chris

 

[jotham]

I'm going to jump in and subjectively recommend a system similar to my home office that works quite nicely and is reasonably priced. I would then spend any remaining money on CDs.


Slim Devices Squeezebox $300 - more or less standalone, can play ripped CDs MP3s and streams pretty well.
Some sort of Axiom Audio bookshelf, probably the M22 ~$470 or M3 ~$330
The parts express 10" Titanic subwoofer kit ~$400
2 channel amp as the Squeezebox doesn't really need a pre-amp, pro-sound $200-500
alternatively an Outlaw Audio 2150


It's nothing fancy but it does seem to work well, has a fairly warm sound and as much bass as you could want in a smaller room. You wouldn't have to purchase the Squeezebox but I think it works far more effectively than a laptop yet can still pull music off the laptop.

I do like the Infinity Perfect subs ( I have 3 of them) but I think the titanic subwoofer is a more compact solution.

 

[mouettus]

What do you think of my item suggestions? Are they too far above your budget? You can save a few hundred using another speaker - but the speaker will require some minor modifications physically (15-20 minutes of work per speaker - using low cost materials and no special skills), and will not be quite as good as the Ascends for near field use.

-Chris

I'd like to keep my current equipment since the speakers are new and I paid lotsa money (relative) for my integrated, which has a sweet sound. The goal is to try to add a subwoofer to the system. I was wondering if the loss of quality was noticeable when you use speaker line inputs on the sub. My integrated doesn't have a sub output. I have left/right preouts that I could use with a Y splitter to the LFE in of the sub but as soon as I remove the jumpers on the preouts, the NAD stops playing. I guess it disables the internal amp circuitry (sp?) in order to use outboard amplification.