Need advice for 1st HT audio-only (LONG post)

kirbysdl

kirbysdl

Audiophyte
I know that some of what I need could be best answered in other forums, but my situation is one of general confusion, so hopefully this is a reasonable starting place.

In a nutshell, I am buying my first home and want to build my first home theater, starting with the audio at a pretty strict upper limit of $1500 (those mortgage payments are killer!).

===About Me

I am definitely not an audiophile. I have neither the ear nor the budget to spend a lot on equipment, nor do I think I have to in order to get decent sound. Also, since I've been using crappy 2.1 computer speakers all my life thusfar, just about anything I get will be sure to sound worlds better. I do value quality over sheer volume, and this combined with the fact that I'm sharing a structural wall with a neighbor means I can't blast things (too much) anyway.

===Location

http://www.speakeasy.org/~curby/filelib/floorplan_upper.gif

My first choice would be the living room (bottom of floorplan_upper). The ceiling slants up from the kitchen area to about 12 feet at the end of the living room. In this situation, should I put the front of the system (TV/etc.) towards the right or the bottom? I'm already considering blackout curtains so errant light/glare issues should not be a problem. Does the lack of a wall between the living and dining rooms wreak havoc with the sound (especially if I go with smaller speakers)? Would it be better to place speakers along the walls even if that means they're 10+ feet from the listener?

Feel free to photo/paintshop the image for speaker placement suggestions. =)

If there's no way this could work, I might try a bedroom, but that would be pretty far from ideal.

=== Other Equipment

As I said above, I'm concentrating on audio first. The primary sound source will be my desktop computer (Windows XP, recent hardware). I currently use a CRT monitor for DVDs, video games, and just general computing. With all sorts of HD technologies that are currently relatively young and expensive, I can wait for the dust to settle before getting a TV.

Eventually, I will probably be including a HDTV of some kind (and probably a DVD player), so my purchasing decision should be made with that in mind. I might also get an x-box, though that's really low priority.

=== Expected Uses

Playing music, watching DVDs, and playing computer games are all important to me.

=== Planning on buying

Some sort of sound card for the computer
Some sort of amp/receiver, preferably 7.1-capable
Either a 7.1 speaker set or 5.1 speaker set

=== Sound Card

How should I best get sound from the computer to the amp/receiver? I would like to keep it digital between the computer and the receiver to reduce cable clutter, maximize quality, and force the sound processing to be done on the receiver. On the other hand, at least some cards don't offer 7.1 digital outputs, so I will need to use analogs or a different sound card if I choose to go with 7.1 speakers. Assuming I'll be using SPDIF there, should I go coax or optical, and why? Optical cables seemed really expensive about a year ago, so maybe I could save a bit and go with coax unless there is a good reason not to.

The type of SPDIF I choose will also affect what sound card I can get. I'm currently looking at Turtle Beach, M-audio, and (sigh) Creative cards under $100. I have what seems like a strange set of requirements: I need a lot of support for sound/gaming APIs and a friendly, interoperable SPDIF output for going to the receiver, but ultimately a dumb card and dumb software will do as the card shouldn't be doing much processing.

TB Catalina - New gamer card, optical digital 7.1 out with LPCM/AC3 autoselect (whatever that means)
M-audio Revolution 7.1 - Coax digital out (Manual states LPCM/AC-3, doesn't say how many channels on this output)
Creative Audigy 2 ZS - Coax digital out with only 5.1 support, best game support, bad reputation for sound quality, software bloat, CPU-use, etc. (I couldn't find the manual online, and the specs are less than encouraging)
Any other cheap cards with decent game support? I know that if I'm going for music-only, I have many more choices, but I still play games. =)

Creative cards support up to EAX v4.0 while the other manufacturers support up to 2.0. How likely is it that support for more recent APIs will be added to the TB/m-audio cards through driver updates, or does support depend on the chip? Do you know if EAX 4.0 games are at least somewhat backwards compatible with EAX 2.0, or will such games only play in stereo with a EAX 2.0 card?

More considerations: How painless will it be to use the setup? I would like for my stereo music to be expanded to all channels, games and DVDs that support 3D tech to use all channels intelligently, and games/DVDs that don't support 3D tech to be expanded out as well as possible to all channels. It seems that many manufacturers like m-audio like the idea of application-dependent profiles, but if the drivers are intelligent enough to decide how to act on its own without my intervention, that would be ideal. Do you know if any manufacturers will remember my preferences and automatically select them in the future, for example?

How is software quality from these three manufacturers? I know the TBSC drivers used to be terrible, but they've gotten better. Creative has a reputation for being bloaty and CPU-intensive... is this still true? With my intended "just playback" uses, will I be able to simply avoid installing a lot of Creative software (like mixing, authoring, editing, ripping/burning, whatnot)? At a basic level, are the drivers stable?

One thing I'm deathly afraid of is crackling or skipping playback. Sometimes, when a machine is sitting idle and not doing much besides playing music, there will be little flaws in playback that stem from the machine (playing the same segment of audio again will not repeatedly give the problem). For example, I get this on my IBM R40e laptop running Redhat Linux 9 with generic drivers, and rarely but occasionally using my Asus P4P800E's onboard sound in Windows XP. I think this is the fault of the sound card/driver, since the other hardware should be plenty fast enough. Assuming what I just said makes sense, has anyone experienced this with any of the cards mentioned above?
 
kirbysdl

kirbysdl

Audiophyte
dang, actually had to split things up :eek:

=== Amp/Receiver

First of all, should I get a home theater in a box? I know that some like the Onkyo 770/777 are pretty well respected and are well within my price range, but some nagging feeling at the back of my head balks at the thought of a prepackaged system (plus the fact that systems like the Onkyo are 6.1, which I have been warned against due to imaging problems (I think that's the term)).

Assuming I make a system from components by myself, I guess I'll get an amp/receiver combo unit. Getting a two-in-one should make things a bit cheaper and as a non-audiophile I probably won't notice any serious quality problems with a 2-in-1 as opposed to separate amp/processor.

I thought the 7.1 vs 5.1 debate would be at the speaker level, but it must be answered here, as going from 5.1 to 7.1 can nearly double the price of the receiver. So: I want to buy a system and have it survive as long as possible, so I'm leaning towards 7.1 as future-proofing. Most surround-system-in-a-box speaker-only kits seem to be 5.1, so going 7.1 leaves me with the task of piecing together my own set of speakers (which might be a good thing anyway). On the other hand, most "7.1" sources nowadays seem to be actually 6.1. Is this a sign that it's too early to adopt 7.1, and any forward-looking 7.1 receiver will be made obsolete by the time people get around to standardizing "true 7.1"? The speakers will survive new standards, but I don't want to waste $200-300 on premature 7.1 support on a receiver.

I have no clue about what to look for, so tips are most welcome. I've read basic guides about the different Dolby surround sound formats, I know that THX certs are half truth and half marketing, but that's about it. I anticipate spending between $200 and $400 of my budget on the receiver, leaving $1000-1200 on 6 to 8 speakers. (If this is stupid or unrealistic, let me know.)

General questions to get started: what features should I go for? Are there any that are totally useless given my requirements and intended uses? I hear "Dolby Pro Logic IIx" (with the x) is pretty neat for 7.1 speaker systems... any thoughts? Feel free to recommend specific models that you've had experience with.

=== Speakers

Above, I mentioned HTIB speakers-only sets. Audioholics has good things to say about the RBH Sound CT-5.1 System, for example. Would smallish speakers like these have a problem with the room I'll be playing in (1 wall missing, high ceiling, etc.)? If I get 5.1 speakers with the intent of upgrading, would it be easier to find matching rear surround speakers for a pieced-together set than for a boxed speaker set?

Does a 7.1 setup give such better immersion that it overcomes whatever quality hits result from buying cheaper components? That is, will I be more likely to appreciate 5.1 speakers that are a bit better, or 7.1 speakers that are a bit worse due to my budget? Should the characteristics of the room affect my choice between 5.1 and 7.1? If so, how?

If I am piecing together my own speaker set and space is not an issue, should I go with all bookshelf speakers instead of small surrounds for better quality?

If I were going to spend $1000 on 4 surrounds, a center channel, and a sub, how should i distribute the money among them?

For an audio-newbie like me, how important is it to get "matched" main/center/surround speakers? Is the difference as painfully obvious as looking at a photograph on a typical CRT and LCD side by side?

=== Specific Models

Just to throw some names (of cheap models) out there:

Satellites
Infinity Primus 140/150/etc.
Sony SS-MB350H
AR PS2062
Polk R20

Speaker Sets
RBH Sound CT-5.1 ~$800
Harmon Kardon HKTS14 $400-650 (can expand to 7.1 with HKTS4)
Infinity TSS750 $550-700 (can expand to 7.1 with TSS SAT750)
Infinity Modulus II $1350-1500 (can expand to 7.1 with MS1 II)
Polk Audio RM20 ~$1000
Polk Audio RM7200 ~$900 (satellite model RM3300 seems rare)

Receivers
Denon AVR-1905/AVR-785S (same specs?!?) $400-500 for 1905, $350 for 785S
Sony STR-DE897/B $300-350 street
Onkyo TX-SR602 $450-500 street
Yamaha RX-V650 $350-400 street

Sound card models are listed above with sound card discussion

=== Other Information Sources

After reading around a bit, it seems that there aren't too many trusted sources for reviews. Most audio magazines only focus on high end equipment, which I am definitely not in the market for. Consumer Reports, which I like because they value price/performance ratios, is said to have archaic testing procedures that are in desperate need of revision (is that true?). In the end however, I probably would be more than happy with anything given any passing grade by any of these publications. Regardless, I'll go with any strong trends or repeated recommendations, so please let me know what you think about what I've said, and please give reasons if you recommend a specific product.

Lastly, I am still reading through all the various Internet forums and review sites, but figured I'd put this out early to make sure I get misconceptions and false impressions out of the way ASAP. Thanks!
 
gregz

gregz

Full Audioholic
Great Scott, kirbysdl! That's quite a lengthy - but well detailed question. I must say that you've done your homework and also spent a good amount of time defining your goals and cost limitations. Kudos! :D

I'm no longer much of a computer gamer, so that lets me off the hook on soundcard related questions.

You state that you're not an audiophile and don't have the ear or budget; is that your conclusion after giving it a fair shot, or have you made up your mind ahead of time due to possible financial constraints? That's an important question, because I sold myself short when I started out in both audio and photography and ended up outgrowing the minimalist stuff I bought that I thought was adequate. That cost me more money in the long run.

On the other side of the coin, if you've already established that a truly superb sound just doesn't do anything for you, then you can save yourself a LOT of money!

In spite of the plethora of reviews of $3,500 speakers that are "almost good enough to be high end," you can build a high end system on a budget, or at least leave yourself room to build upon it at a later date.

If you truly know that you'll never yearn for better sound down the road, then it's time to take a listening tour of various 7.1 home theatre speaker packages. Even cheaper, many systems-in-a-box that come as 5.1 allow you to add extra satelites to bring it up to 7.1 for only a little more cost. One of the great features of mid-fi and cheap speakers is that they're almost always very efficient, allowing you to run them easily off a lesser amplifier. You'd end up spending 2/3 of your stated audio budget or even less.

On the other road, you can build a good system on a little more dough. I'm a strong proponent of bookshelf speakers in conjunction with a subwoofer. There are many bookshelf speakers that are earning accolades in those high-end audio magazines that only cost about $200 a pair. I've not heard them (yet), but the Infinity Primus 150's on your list made the recommended components list in both in "Stereophile" and "The Absolute Sound." Another was the Paradigm Atoms. My personal favorite is NHT SB-1 at about the same price. Six bookshelf speakers of relatively high quality would cost approximately $600. A very nice receiver from your list towards the $400 end would leave you about $100 for a center channel and $400 for a subwoofer. A respectable audiophile grade system within your budget.

One side comment on your list of receivers is that I'd replace Sony with Kenwood. I love Sony products to death, but they have an all or nothing philosophy, and their non-ES receivers just aren't that good.

If you haven't already, I really recommend getting a copy of one of the high end audio review "recommended components" lists (you'll probably have to order a back-issue). Then find an audio CD they they reviewed positively if you can find one with content that's within your taste. With one CD and the reviews in hand, then spend the next few weeks going around to all the audio stores hunting down both budget and higher end speakers from the list and see how your own ears compare with what the reviews say. Do you really hear clearer mids, or does the speaker just sound nasal? Can you actually place the position of the instruments, or is imaging just a bunch of hooey as far as your ears are concerned? Even if you have golden ears, it will be a hit/miss proposition because you won't always agree with the reviewers. This will be a good exercise before evaluating speakers not on the lists.

-And I didn't make this answer long just to compete with the length of your question. If that were the case, I'd follow this post with part two.
 
kirbysdl

kirbysdl

Audiophyte
gregz said:
I must say that you've done your homework and also spent a good amount of time defining your goals and cost limitations. Kudos! :D
Thanks for your reply. I did spend a lot of time researching and writing, but I think the length got to a lot of people. I posted to several forums/sites but yours was the only reply on any of them.

gregz said:
I'm no longer much of a computer gamer, so that lets me off the hook on soundcard related questions.
Aside from gaming, do you do play any computer music on your HT? Many driver and quality issues can surface regardless of application. One important part for me is support for game-audio APIs. Another is actually getting the sound out to the receiver.

gregz said:
You state that you're not an audiophile and don't have the ear or budget; is that your conclusion after giving it a fair shot, or have you made up your mind ahead of time due to possible financial constraints? That's an important question, because I sold myself short when I started out in both audio and photography and ended up outgrowing the minimalist stuff I bought that I thought was adequate. That cost me more money in the long run.
I've never gone into a store and auditioned speakers, but I am willing to go with products that get consistently positive reviews, so effects of personal bias, etc. will be minimized. Also I live somewhat out of the way, and finding audio stores that have a reasonable selection of low end equipment might be difficult. I understand what you mean though... getting something nice but not great might lead me to find and agonize over flaws. In the end, I'm at least as concerned about the technical aspects of the equipment than the sound. I want everything to be reasonably futureproof, compatible with future video/tv purchases, and mesh nicely with whatever sound card I get.

gregz said:
On the other road, you can build a good system on a little more dough. I'm a strong proponent of bookshelf speakers in conjunction with a subwoofer. There are many bookshelf speakers that are earning accolades in those high-end audio magazines that only cost about $200 a pair. I've not heard them (yet), but the Infinity Primus 150's on your list made the recommended components list in both in "Stereophile" and "The Absolute Sound." Another was the Paradigm Atoms. My personal favorite is NHT SB-1 at about the same price. Six bookshelf speakers of relatively high quality would cost approximately $600.
Some others I've come across in my research. I think I want to set a firm limit of $250/pair for the satellites, but I can probably find most of these at $200/pair street prices.

Paradigm Atom v.3 190/pr list, nonshield (extra $20) 8ohm 89db
PSB alpha b (250/pr) nonshield 8ohm 91db
Klipsch RB-15 (200/pr street) nonshield 8ohm 93db
infinity primus 150 200/pr list shielded 8ohm 88db
Epos ELS-3 300/pr list shielded 4ohm 87db
nht sb-1 300/pr list

gregz said:
A very nice receiver from your list towards the $400 end would leave you about $100 for a center channel and $400 for a subwoofer. A respectable audiophile grade system within your budget.
Is getting a seventh satellite like a primus 150 or Shielded Atom for use as a center speaker a big no-no? Most companies make centers that just look like satellites with a second midrange/woofer: is it a symmetry issue?

I thought a sub would be a cheap and easy part, but turns out that it matters and costs just as much as (if not more than) the satellites. Here are a few I've found... any recommendations or things to look for? If i'm not going to push it very hard, anticlipping tech is probably not necessary, right?

Pinnacle AC Sub 100 $350
velodyne-ct-150 $800
velodyn cht 10 $500
paradigm pdr-10$349
Polk Audio PSW450
infinity ps10/12
klipsch rw-10

gregz said:
One side comment on your list of receivers is that I'd replace Sony with Kenwood. I love Sony products to death, but they have an all or nothing philosophy, and their non-ES receivers just aren't that good.
Ok, I'll keep that in mind. Any Kenwood model in particular that you'd recommend over other Kenwoods?
 
Kesomir

Kesomir

Audiophyte
I play computer games and my PC is the heart of my audio entertainment system.

I retired my creative live 5.1 card from general use because of the poor digital connections and instead use the sound on my motherboard (which has optical outs to connect to my amp. - I know that you can get digital connections on a creative with either a breakout box or backplane but since I already had on board sound it seemed a waste to spend more.

I still use the creative card, but just for teampeak voice comms to keep things nice and seperate and it doesn't run into my amp.

I don't notice any sound problems, and quality def went up when i switched from analogue to digital connection. That said, I'm also happy with the sound of mp3's which some people appear to shun.

This setup gives me my 5.2 sound (amp supports up to 7.1 though) from the pc from games, dvd's etc. For stereo sound I use pro logic II which spreads the sound around all the speakers.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
You've gotten some good feedback here so let me just throw in some of my usual gratuitous generalities that apply no matter what your budget is:

1) As far as the final sound of your system goes, the speakers and room acoustics rule. Put the majority of your money and mental energy into making those the best you can. My feeling about the purely electronic end of things is that good performance is a given these days (well, maybe not with soundcards but I'm an old fogey and ignorant of such newfangled notions!) and your selection of those will be mainly on features and other intangibles. But speakers are still highly variable and personal preferences still play a large and valid role in their selection. (Even though I am personally convinced that open baffle point-source electrodynamic dipoles are God's gift to audiophiles, and that Siegfried Linkwitz is His prophet, I am indulgent and merciful to the benighted souls who do not agree. :cool: )

A good way to get the most for your speaker dollar is to forego the low bass (meaning, the subwoofer) for now and putting your money into the best nearly full-range monitors (smallish two way speakers on stands -- not the mini-boxes common in HTIB systems) you can get. Look at offerings from companies like PSB, Axiom, etc. Search the Loudspeaker forum here for more ideas! Especially since you're doing a mainly music system there really isn't that much content below 50Hz or so, unless you're a big fan of pipe organ or drum-and-bass techno. That's about as low as my DIY speakers go without heebie jeebies and Mahler still sounds just dandy.

2) Consumer Reports tests more mass-market gear than anyone and while one can quibble with any reviewer, they generally do a good job of both rating and explaing how to make your choice without the BS. Get thee to your local library and seek out recent issues dealing with audio and HT. Gene and Hawke do an OK job here, too ;). Even though it's an old article and the models are out of production, their "Receiver Picks" articles here have lots of good general info. Must read stuff IMO.

3) Buy used! There are people out there who change gear like normal people change socks*. You can find them on eBay and Audiogon.com. Their compulsive equipment churning and resulting financial loss is your gain.

----
*Of course, I cannot vouch for the sock-changing habits or general normality of Audioholics members.
 
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gregz

gregz

Full Audioholic
Great, the feedback is starting to pour in...

To answer your questions, yes; I do listen to MP3's through my computer. My wife is currently prodding me to upgrade the bedroom sound system to make the computer sing better. I'll be pulling an old Onkyo receiver out of mothballs and assembling another sat/sub (2.1?) system soon.

I know it's a drag driving long distance just to listen to speakers, but I'm in the same boat. The closest thing my town has to a stereo store is Radio Shack :( So I have to do some driving to listen. Still, it's worth your while. Since the high grade bookshelf speakers coming in at $200 do give something up to their more expensive bretheren, it's good to find the ones that are strong in ways that are most important to your ears and your music. Several highly rated components in Stereophile didn't do it for me because of my strong personal distaste for inaccurate, loose bass. Others sang beutifully and I had a hard time hearing the faults they listed... Very personal, as Rip Van Woofer said.

I'm mostly with Rip on the electronics end as well, except when you end up buying a 100W receiver that's really only a 30W receiver if you don't want heavy distortion and/or extreme dynamic compression. That won't happen in the price range you're looking at and within the brand names we mentioned. Compare feature set to find the one for you.

The center channel is a topic that gets folks all riled up. Many of them have the woofer/mids spaced on either side of a tweeter, which can cause phase cancellation if the mid/woofers are spaced too far apart. Better arrangements use a single tweet above a mid, with small woofers on the outside putting out lower bass frequencies too long to cause phase cancellation. A satelite as a center would work well in theory, matching the specifications of most dedicated centers in power and output range. But people like the flat center that lays down and blends in better, and produces sound closer to the screen...

I like the suggestion of waiting on the sub for later. The unfortunate thing about most inexpensive subs (and I mean the $300-$400 range) is that they're made to be as loud as possible to get people's attention in Circuit City. That extra volume comes at the cost of accuracy and low frequency ability. Since you won't be rocking your neighbor's walls, a boomy sub made to shake the displays at Circuit City will not do you any good so you're best waiting (or building your own).
 
kirbysdl

kirbysdl

Audiophyte
Thanks once again for your replies and advice. Rip, I took a look at some of the articles on your site. I knew most of the items in the 10 Myths paper, but it was a relief to hear from another that expensive power filters, patch cables, etc. are largely a waste of money.

One of the big decisions seems to be either going 5.1 or 7.1 (I'll use the standard terms 5.1/7.1, even though I might leave out the sub as you suggest). What are your opinions on the future of 7.1 and difference between 5.1 and 7.1?

As for the future issue, it seems that current-day 7.1 receivers won't be able to process an actual 7.1 signal, whenever they get around to standardizing them. Most surround sound encoding schemes are not forwards-compatible, i.e. the very first 5.1 receivers probably wouldn't know what to do with a present-day 6.1 EX/ES signal, right? Currently, DTS and Dolby Digital are 5.1, DTS ES and Dolby Digital EX are 6.1. SDDS is true 7.1 sound, but I've only seen it in movie theatres. Why are there so many 7.1 products when there are no standards or media support for it? It probably comes down to (1) trying to sell more stuff and (2) the idea that a 6.1 ES/EX source should have its back surround split apart to prevent imaging issues.

Then there's the difference issue. I trust some of you have compared 5.1 and 7.1 setups? Does 7.1 help immersion enough to justify getting more, but cheaper speakers? Does 6.1 really present such a big imaging problem? (I think the problem usually raised is that the brain doesn't know where to "put" a sound source coming from directly behind, so it changes a listener's perception of the sound environment)

I think my choices boil down to:
5.1 rcvr, 5.1 spkr: because (1) the perceived difference between 7.1 and 5.1 is negligible, (2) 7.1 has not sufficiently matured (no discrete channel support, etc.), and/or (3) I should be looking at better quality anyway and should not sacrifice it for extra speakers
7.1 R, 5.1 S: because (1) 7.1 as it stands now will be compatible with emerging standards, (2) I should invest in a receiver that is futureproof and can add speakers later as i get money, and/or (3) this middle of the road idea is safest for any future development
6.1R, 6.1S: because (1) another channel in the back helps immersion greatly, (2) there is currently media support for 6 discrete channels, and/or (3) the imaging problem with a speaker right behind the head is overblown
7.1 R, 7.1 S: because (1) 7.1 is overwhelmingly better than 5.1, and/or (2) 6.1 really is as bad as people say

I'm starting to lean towards the first choice now and then upgrade if/when 7.1 really gets some discrete channel support and takes off. On the other hand, above a certain point, 5.1 and even 6.1 isn't an option. Denon's models are mostly 7.1, for example.

Regarding center speakers, if it isn't a bad move from the physics standpoint to use a standard 2-way satellite as a center speaker, I'll probably do that. I don't care much at all about the look of my setup as long as it performs reasonably well, and center speakers have an annoying habit of being over twice as expensive as the satellites they're normally paired with.

Regarding the sub, I'm definitely going for quality over volume, especially since my condo shares a wall with another. My tastes in music vary widely but include such touchy things as orchestrations and classical guitar/piano. I wouldn't mind leaving out a sub for now, but I'll keep my eyes open in case the budget allows. I'm much more likely to be able to fit one in if I end up going for a 5.1 rather than 7.1 system.

Suggestions for specific speakers/subs to look out for or avoid would be very helpful too. I know that ultimately, the choice and the most important opinion is mine, but it would be nice to have something to go on. As for receivers, I think that it's mostly a question of interface and feature set, as gregz mentioned. I'll see if I can download user manual PDFs to see about that.

Thanks again!
 
Last edited:
gregz

gregz

Full Audioholic
Retraction

Kirbysdl, if you're still out there trying to make a decision and you're still thinking of doing it blind, I retract my earlier mention of the Infinity Primus 150's.

My wife and I got to listen to them this weekend at the Circuit City down the road a ways, and when the salesman turned them on, we just looked at each other. No words were necessary. Boomy, not just loose bloated bass, and rhaspy overaccentuated cymbols (the equivalent of the smiley curve on a graphic equalizer). I don't know HOW these got onto Stereophile's recommended component list, unless a) Infinity changed the tweeters midway through production after the review, or b) Stereophile's BJR is on crack. :D

In comparison, the Polks sounded MUCh better, better than everything else in the room which included an assortment of Sonys, Bose, and Infinitys.

The moral? Polks are the king of the Circuit City selection, and you REALLY should listen to a pair of speakers before taking anybody's word on them (including mine!).

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.
 

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