Need a Sub to finish off system. Help me with last piece

[ebterp]

Ok guys here is what I have so far.

Pioneer 815

1 PR. BIC DV-62SI (Main)

Ordered these:

1 PR. BIC DV-52SI (Surrounds)
DV-62CLRS (Center)

Final piece is the sub. Any recommendations. Space is pretty small - room is only 16 X 13.

Eric

 

[jaxvon]

What's the budget? If it's in line with the rest of your system (WOW that sounds just like my system to be), then I'd say either the BIC sub of that line (the V1220) or the Cadence X-Sub. The X-sub is like $40 more, but at like $230 shipped, it's still a hell of a deal for a 12" sub with a Class A/B amp.

 

[Sheep]

budget?

whats your budget?

my room is the same (12x16) and I have an energy e:xl-s8. its pretty good for the room, but I want lower. If you live in the states, I would look at svs. the pb-10, and 12's would do nicely, or HSU STF 2.



sheep

 

[Spiffyfast]

Your budget is going to play an important role. I agree with Jaxvon, the Bic sub to match your set, or the 50lb beast Cadence Xsub.

 

[ebterp]

Budget in 200-300 range

I have been considering the below:

HSU STF-1
JBL E250P
BIC 1220

I really need something that is not huge so I can attempt to find a spot for it that my wife will accept!!!

 

[jaxvon]

You should add the Cadence X-Sub to that list. Of the four, it will probably give you the most output and depth. The Hsu is a great sub, but it doesn't have the low-extension of the 12" offerings. If you're going to be using HT, I'd decide between the BIC and the Cadence. And we know if Buckeye posts, he'll recommend the Cadence. And honestly, I'll probably be going that route too. I have a BIC setup going and in that price range, the Cadence is the sexies of the bunch.

 

[Khellandros66]

HSU STF-1

I'll cast my vote

~Bob

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Well, that's similar to what I'm looking at,too. As much as I've read great things about Hsu, I love deep bass and that baby has an 8" woof and it only goes down to 32 hz. The Cadence X-Sub goes down to 25 hz and from what I've read the 1220 goes down to 23 hz. I've not read much good critically about the JBL 250.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Things to consider

Ok guys here is what I have so far.
Pioneer 815
1 PR. BIC DV-62SI (Main)
Ordered these:
1 PR. BIC DV-52SI (Surrounds)
DV-62CLRS (Center)
Final piece is the sub. Any recommendations. Space is pretty small - room is only 16 X 13.
Eric

Nice setup. If space is limited, you'll want a smaller sub. Like the guys said before, the Cadence is a great value. It's got more amp than the 12" woofer can handle, and if placed in a corner, will put out some deep bass. What I find amazing about this sub, is it's punch. It moves like an 8" woofer in a tower speaker. It's extremely controlled. Since it's a ported sub, it will also go low. I don't think you'll hear a difference between 23Hz and 25Hz. MacManNM told me the Cadence is a nicer looking unit than the V1220 he ordered, but he really enjoyed the sound the BIC produced. In comparing the PB10 ISD, I found the Cadence didn't go as low, but put out better punch for music, as well as much higher dB's. Simply put, it's a much louder sub than the entry level online only retailers' subs. If space isn't an issue, and you want primarily HT type bass (the depth charge type bass in U571), you'll want something more on the lines of a SVS PB12 ISD. The Cadence won't go that low, but it will play the higher bass frequencies with more dB IMO (30Hz - 80Hz).

This may sound crazy, but the only sub I've heard worthy of upgrading my XSUB is the Martin Logan Depth. I've demo'd subs in over 20 high end audio shops in Columbus and Dallas. I've heard quite a few. I listen to too much music to sink $1300 into a full HT type subwoofer that goes down to 16Hz.

My original plan (as some of you may remember) was to give the Cadence to my brother, and buy an expensive one for myself. I gave him my older 10" Velodyne instead - he doesn't know any better, and he's happy as a clam. To date, I haven't given up the Cadence, and still have $$$ burning a hole in my pocket for that next "musical/HT" sub. When the ML Depth goes up at Audiogon at a substantial savings, I'll place my order. Until then, the XSUB is more than enough.

 

[andre3k]

What about the BIC Acoustech HT100? Looks like a good deal.

 

[jaxvon]

Also a good deal. Not much wattage though (100). It was co-designed by Dr. Hsu, so you know it has some solid engineering behind it.

 

[einsteinjb]

Hello all,

Has anyone here actually compared the Cadence XSub side by side with the Hsu STF-2? Buckeyefan is obviously a big fan of the XSub and its specs look good but after reams of rave reviews of the Hsu, it's hard to believe such a cheap sub could sound as good. Thoughts?

 

[ebterp]

I am curious as well?

Not being able to audition these subs is difficult. The cadence sounds like a gem but the HSU subs have a huge rep which makes me take a close look at the STF-1.

E

 

[einsteinjb]

Ed Frias' recommendation

Thought you guys might like to know, in the email I recently received from Ed Frias of EFE (helluva guy!), he strongly DISrecommends the BIC subwoofers! He says they're the worst speakers they sell. He actually sells the JBL E250P, believe it or not. Here's a quote:

Q: Do you recommend the BIC sub-woofer speakers as good values?

A: No, in my opinion the BIC subs are the worst of all BIC speakers! I recently received E-mail from a customer asking me this same question, unfortunately he already bought the sub and was very displeased. I offer the new JBK E250P (250 watt) front firing 12" ported subwoofer. I have found it to be one of the cleanest sounding subs under $500 (my price is $325 + shipping). It is very important to use a subwoofer that is very tight and clean, a muddy sub can overshadow and greatly degrade the sound of the main speakers. In order to control and keep the woofer driver clean, it takes large amounts of current and 250watts is the minimum a sub should have in my opinion. If using a subwoofer, make sure to adjust the frequency to no higher than 60-80hz max, preferably to 50-60hz. Overlapping bass from the subwoofer can change the balance of the main speakers making their sound not as accurate and balanced. Just as my modification gives a new and more accurate balance to the BIC speakers and thus makes them sound much more natural, a poorly adjusted subwoofer can change that balance and totally annul the upgrade.

So there you have it. (I'm still ordering the Hsu STF-2 personally.

 

[MacManNM]

I would have to say that I disagree with Ed on this one. I think the V1220 is a fine sub for HT, I crossed it over around 35 HZ, and thought it played well. Most of the BIC speakers have excellent low end extension, so it isn't necessary to cross it over any higher. I don't know where Buck is crossing his cadence, but it does make a huge difference.

 

[Tomorrow]

Guess I'll get my vote in while the gettin' is good. I have to repeat what I said in another post/thread....my little Hsu STF-1 was the one I kept. The JBL S120PII (much better than the E250) was the one I sold. I can not abide sloppy sub sounds.

Happy sub hunting to you, too.

 

[einsteinjb]

sub hunting

Well, I've emailed Ed back and asked if he sells the JBLs as-is or if he "extensively modifies" them as well. He doesn't say in his literature that he emailed me. I'll post whatever he writes back. For me, not being able to audition here in my home, I just can't ignore the VOLUMES of raves about the Hsu, nor the multiple comments about the sloppy, boomy, undefined sound some have experienced with the JBLs. I owned a CHEAP lil 10" JBL PB10, 150 watts/chan., for 3 years til the built-in amp burned out (scared the bejesus outta me too when it croaked), and I loved it for what I used it for -- under a desk in a TINY studio (you had to leave the room to change your mind) to add a couple octaves to my beloved Boston Acoustics CR75 monitors for studio monitoring. It rocked with the volume at like 1/3. The one time I tried it with a surround system it could not hang, but for the lil studio it did the job. Now I plan to use the Hsu STF-2 for double duty (theater and studio) til I get the cash to pick up a dedicated theater sub, maybe an SVS...

 

[Tomorrow]

For me, not being able to audition here in my home, I just can't ignore the VOLUMES of raves about the Hsu, nor the multiple comments about the sloppy, boomy, undefined sound some have experienced with the JBLs.


Yep, that's the rub. I live in the boonies too, and finding a store to audition speakers is like finding good Cajun food here in Oregon. Can't do it. That's how I ended up with the JBL (internet), found it wanting, joined here, discovered the resident wisdom on Audioholics, and bought the STF-1 to support it...then decided to dump the boomy one and (later) support the little Hsu with some depth. One thing about home auditioning...if you go to the two bigbangforbuck companies, SVS and Hsu. Shipping on the Hsu is much less than the SVS (each way). Depending upon where you live, the Hsu could be half the shipping cost (to you) of the equivalent SVS. If you want to ship it back, it's also smaller and a bit lighter.

At the moment I'm vasillating between the STF-3 and waiting for the VTF HO. But that's another and more expensive story! The good news is you can't go wrong with either SVS or Hsu. With Cadence and JBL....well, I just dunno. You'll save money is the one sure thing with those.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Lets clear up the Cadence sub notes

I just wanted to make one thing clear on the Cadence. I think a lot of people believe I push that sub because it's an end all subwoofer. It's not. Not even close. What's it's not is an outstanding HT subwoofer (like the SVS plus and ultra series - I've heard them all). What it is, is a great musical subwoofer, then a very impressive HT sub if placed in a corner. There's no boom, or lack of control. It's terrible for rap, and doesn't shake the foundation with U571. What it also doesn't do is distort, bottom out, or sound muddy. Honestly, the box is too small to get down and dirty with some of those beefy models HSU and SVS offer. I haven't heard HSU's two entry level subs, so I can't compare. All I can do is relate my experiences with this unit.

I can say that it's probably on the same lines as the BIC DV62 and CLRS speakers - an outstanding value at it's price point. You can find better subs, but would have to spend much more - and still may not be satisfied with the musical reproduction of an extremely low Hz sub. If it's home theater you want, go with an HSU or SVS, but spend a little more (at least with the SVS) and get a few models up from the entry level stuff. Mac and I both agree you don't know what you're missing with the plus and ultra lines if you haven't demo'd all of them together. Also know that Mac and myself are very passionate about music, much moreso than movies. I love movies, but realize there's only so many explosions that reach down to 16Hz. 25Hz is extremely low, and to have a high dB rating at that frequency may mean more to me than die hard move bass heads.

Only Mulester can answer the question - "do I have enough bass now?"

 

[einsteinjb]

Clarification from Ed Frias

Ed Frias wrote me back again, a long, detailed message, and I must say, he is the MAN. Even if his speakers don't live up to the hype (and I suspect they do), his attention and courtesy and willingness to spend time answering questions even from people who may never buy from him REALLY impress me. In fact I'm determined now to buy at least a pair of his ext mod BIC DV62si bookshelf speakers just to thank him, hehe. Hey if they sound better than my sweet lil Boston Acoustics CR75s, I'll enjoy a better set of studio monitors. If not, I'll have a choice of rear surrounds to go with my front B&W DM602 S2s.

Here's his thoughts on the subs along with a really helpful piece of advice that would have prevented my old lil JBL sub from dying a premature death had I known it before:

"As for the JBL sub, I would never recommend it over the HSU, SVS several other very good subs accept for those who can't afford over $350! For the money, the JBL has been one of the best sounding low priced subs I've heard, and it is just the right price to go along with the BIC speakers. Most BIC buyers can't afford a good HSU or SVS sub, so they ask what is the best for the price and I recommend and sell the JBL. If they are willing to build the sub from a kit, then $350 will buy them a great kit from Parts Express that is as good as the $700 HSU or SVS, but most do not want to build their own.

"The one thing I tell everybody, whether they buy the JBL, HSU, SVS or any other sub, is to manually turn it on and off and not to leave it on 'Auto-On' mod. This has been a problem with many subs and caused them to burn out! If you turn it on when in use and off when finished, you'll have years of trouble free service! The 'Auto-On' circuits have caused most of the problems you read about on any of the subs that have had problems, even the HSU. I've been selling the JBL for several years and haven't seen any problems like you read about on the Internet, it's because my customers all turn the unit off when not in use."

D'oh!!

While on the subject of the JBL E250P, how useless is Best Buy!!!!!! Seriously. I stopped by my local one a few weeks ago looking for speaker stands and happened to notice they sold the JBL E150P and E250P. Oh good, I thought, I'm not really looking at these but I can listen, since I'm curious if they sound like, better than, or worse than my old cheap JBL. Well no, I couldn't. First, they're using the thinnest speaker wire, it looks like fishing line. The actual wires are like 3 human hairs, and it's some kind of tin instead of real copper. Half the speaker wires were hanging out the back, so I had to help them out and reconnect them. When I did, probably due to the crap switching devices combined with the crap speaker wires, it sounded quite like dog poo being repeatedly lobbed against an aluminum trash can.

OK so today I stopped by another Best Buy, hoping for a better experience, but was sorely disappointed. Again, the identical crap speaker wires were hanging off the back, but when I helpfully reconnected them they still didn't work. An employee and a "tech guy" couldn't get it working within 15 minutes so I gave up and left. Sad.

So yes, there's a Hsu STF-2 out there somewhere in subwooferland with my name on it, just waiting to make the journey to my doorstep once funding appears...