Need a push: Cinema 60, or Denon x3700,x3800, x4700

[Phil J N.Z.]

I think some people can get great sound from any of the major brands.

But some people can only get great sound from certain brands.

I’ve used both Denon/Marantz and Yamaha, and both sound equally great. Although if I had my wish, I would want the best from both worlds. I want Yamaha’s MusicCast and app + Denon/Marantz’s DEQ + Subwoofer in PD mode.

As long as your happy with the sound your getting that is all that matters.

 

[PENG]

Agreed it is very subjective and will depend on many things like room, speakers, sound source and type of music, am lucky my Wife likes the same music taste as I, best part is I have a very friendly HIFI shop here and I have known the owner for 40 years and is always very helpful.

Since you seem open minded to other view points, what I am trying to say but also try not to offend is that, such subjective assessments are virtually (there are always exceptions, though rare) useless, or even counter productive especially to others who may end up being biased to make decision that might not be the best for them. As I quoted the expert PhDs such as Harman's Dr. Olive, about what their findings of sighted comparation listening tests. They mainly work on speakers, as far as I know, Dr. Toole would not have considered doing it on amplifiers because they all do 20-20,000 Hz flat, and with distortions well below 0.1%. It seems obvious that if sighted listening tests can't do justice on speakers, they can't on amps either.

For reading only:
Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests

Otherwise, Gene has a winner (imo) video version:
The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests vs Double Blind (youtube.com)

If you have time, watch the whole show, otherwise, it is not so funny that someone got fired as a result of "voicing" a good $5,000 (not cheap 20-30 years ago) speaker intentionally and such a study:

Again, this is just for speakers, if Harman had done similar work on amplifiers and dacs, I wonder how many "voicing" experts, such as Denon and Marantz's sound masters would have lost their jobs lol..

 

[PHANofPHUNK]

Regardless, congrats for you success in acquiring the 7015, it really is a great model for those who still need the legacy I/O for whatever reasons. There are not even offered in flag ship models any more.

In terms of sound quality in general, all those models mentioned so far are all so similar, so decision based on price is a wise decision imo. As to sound quality specifically for music, it's a huge myth that has been all over forums that some are better for movies while others better for music and some great for both. In reality, the devices don't know, and don't really care, as long as they are not push to the limit, if they do well in movies they will do well in music. I know you are simply saying the 7015 is excellent for music (and not suggesting others are not), and that I am sure it is, but I just want to mention this as a by the way kind of comment that it is not something people need to be too concerned about when choosing their AVR.

Also worth noting that some manufacturers seem more honest in their marketing info (though still often full of BS by nature). As an example of a little honesty, quoting Anthem FAQ again:

"In terms of sound quality in general, all those models mentioned so far are all so similar, so decision based on price is a wise decision imo"

Peng, This has been the most helpful responses I have ever seen on a audio forum. I think I'm going to go with the x3800.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd definitely vote on getting the feature set you want for the best price.....and a tool like zkelectronics.com can help compare the minutiae.

 

[PHANofPHUNK]

I'd definitely vote on getting the feature set you want for the best price.....and a tool like zkelectronics.com can help compare the minutiae.

I do like zkelectronics too. I also find the Crutchfield has a more detailed spec listing for products. You know, i really wish there was a spreadsheet of "diminishing return". For instance If I have a 5k avr and i pair it with speakers that cost 500 bucks, I'm most likely not going to hear the full sonic potential of the avr. So at what point am i just wasting my money when all I'm powering is a 5 channel Paradigm monitor series and a SVS sb-2000? whats my point of diminishing return?

 

[lovinthehd]

I do like zkelectronics too. I also find the Crutchfield has a more detailed spec listing for products. You know, i really wish there was a spreadsheet of "diminishing return". For instance If I have a 5k avr and i pair it with speakers that cost 500 bucks, I'm most likely not going to hear the full sonic potential of the avr. So at what point am i just wasting my money when all I'm powering is a 5 channel Paradigm monitor series and a SVS sb-2000? whats my point of diminishing return?

Hadn't looked at Crutchfield for a long time, they have improved their information for avrs. Do they have a full data base of models for comparison like zkelectronics does? Didn't see it if its there.... I just generally don't want just a retailer's capture of descriptions, rather start with the user manual of the units I'm interested in.

Kinda silly to spend $5k on an avr and only 500 on speakers. The sonic potential of an avr means what, tho? Your speakers are your general limitation as well as your room. You have a lot of choices in avr for a 5.1 speaker setup, tho often you'll get features you can't use with only a 5.1 speaker set....