Need a 5 channel amp or a receiver

[Djizasse]

I'm scratching my head about this.

I'll have 2 systems:
Office: 4x Tannoy Reveal 6 + Reveal 66 + Infinity sub
Source: PC, L/R channels through a DCX2496)
I must use multichannel input with the PC.

Living Room:
Monitor Audio RS6 + RS LCR + RS1 (waiting for them to arrive)
Sources: PC (HDMI) + HD-DVD player + Xbox 360

I've got one amp, the Yamaha RX-V861 that I was using with the Tannoys.
I've got two options:
- keep the yammy in the living room with the MAs and buy a 5 channel amp for the tannoys - no need for HDMI and all that stuff
- keep the yammy in the office with the Tannoys and buy a receiver for the living room - need a

The budget for a new amp could be around the price of the 861. I'm not going into separates, I really want just one unit. Anyone has a piece of advice?

 

[rnatalli]

Most of the receivers today have HDMI, but you obviously don't have to use it. I'll throw a Marantz SR4003 or SR5003 from 6th Avenue using the AFLAUD25 coupon in the mix. 25% off is tough to resist.

 

[rnatalli]

Oops, I see now you're in Portugal. Not sure the 6th Avenue is any good to you. In any case, the Marantz receivers are still good picks.

 

[CraigV]

I’m a bit confused – I believe the Yamaha “amp” you’re referring to is actually a receiver, yes?

Also, I’m thinking most of the members here are in the USA, and may not know what’s available in Portugal.

 

[greggp2]

I have a Rotel RSX-1056 for sale if you are interested. 75 Watts per channel continuous power. I just went to separates, but the Rotel is a good option if you're interested.

 

[Djizasse]

I’m a bit confused – I believe the Yamaha “amp” you’re referring to is actually a receiver, yes?

Also, I’m thinking most of the members here are in the USA, and may not know what’s available in Portugal.

Yes, sorry for that I did say I'm scratching my head
I'll need a receiver for the living room, or an amp for the office.

It's almost certain that I'll order from the UK. Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, etc. are available in the UK.
Maybe brands like Outlaw and Emotiva are only available in the USA. The rest, the "global brands" are easy to get.


I liked the recommendation of the Marantz SR5003. I see it has Audyssey MultEQ, pre-outs, 3 optical ins, and it looks good (I love brushed aluminum). The price (in the UK) is at the limit, but it seems good. I'll try to demo it with the RS6s.

 

[Djizasse]

I have a Rotel RSX-1056 for sale if you are interested. 75 Watts per channel continuous power. I just went to separates, but the Rotel is a good option if you're interested.

Thanks for the offer, but it does not have HDMI. It's also heavy. Postage to Portugal would be more than 100USD.

 

[greggp2]

No problem. You are correct, it doesn't have HDMI and shipping to Portugal would be a little steep. It's brushed Aluminum though. Anyway, good luck on your search...

 

[Djizasse]

Hello again.

I've decided on a new receiver for the RS6s (in the near future with RS1s and RSLCR). I want at least 3 HDMI inputs and more power than the Yamaha RX-V861. Pre-outs and analog multichannel input would be a nice option.

Yamaha RX-V663 and 863 - have the same amp as the 861. No advantage here.
Yamaha RX-V1800 - seems to have a better amplifier section. Is this correct?

Onkyo 805 - hard to find over here. But I'm still trying. Very good (and hot) amp.
Onkyo 806 - a worse audio section than the 805. Is the amp better than the 861?

Marantz SR5003 - how's the amp on this receiver?

I'll probably include a similar Denon unit in my receiver pool. I'm not interested in other brands.

Can you compare the amp sections on these receivers (RX-V1800, 806, SR5003)? Are they a good upgrade from the Yamaha RX-V861?

 

[Djizasse]

I'm limiting my choices to:
Onkyo 806
Yamaha RX-V1800

I heard something about audio/video lag with the Onkyo. Does anybody know anything about this?

 

[greggp2]

Go with the Yamaha. My opinion is that compared to Onkyo, they sound better, use better circuitry, run cooler, etc. I've used both. Yamaha is a music company that makes instruments. Most Yamaha buyers are pretty loyal once they use them. They just sound better.

Onkyo makes decent products, but between the two, I'd go with the Yamaha. Eventually if you decide to get a separate Amp, the Yamaha processors will sound better than the Onkyo...

 

[jostenmeat]

Yamaha RX-V663 and 863 - have the same amp as the 861. No advantage here.

IIRC, I think that in fact your 861 is more powerful than the 663/863. I think a while ago PENG was posting about that.

Onkyo 805 - hard to find over here. But I'm still trying. Very good (and hot) amp.

It is the bang for buck amplifier section in a receiver.

I'm limiting my choices to:
Onkyo 806
Yamaha RX-V1800

I heard something about audio/video lag with the Onkyo. Does anybody know anything about this?

Not really. There were a few folks who complained that the audio was delayed after the video on the 805, even with delay setting to zero. Some of these folks said that updating final FW of 1.08 really ameliorated that. I never touched my version 1.06, and I have no issue. Trust me, I would be able to tell on my huge screen. OTOH, since I sit further away than many others, there is that tiny bit of time for sound to travel that distance. However, I don't sit so far away to make it the reason why I have no issue. I have applied various levels of delay to my source inputs.

Go with the Yamaha. My opinion is that compared to Onkyo, they sound better, use better circuitry, run cooler, etc. I've used both. Yamaha is a music company that makes instruments. Most Yamaha buyers are pretty loyal once they use them. They just sound better.

Onkyo makes decent products, but between the two, I'd go with the Yamaha. Eventually if you decide to get a separate Amp, the Yamaha processors will sound better than the Onkyo...

Yamaha does make a lot of value instruments, sometimes a lot better for one type of instrument than another. Also, a lot of pro audio stuff, motorcycles, Disklavier, etc. But, I don't think that argument really flies. I'm not saying that Yamaha isn't better for receivers, just that the argument is silly. Onkyo only makes audio gear. So, you could say they concentrate their business. For instance, I've found that Nokia makes a good cell phone, but that's all they really do. They're not all over the place like Motorola, Samsung, etc.

Anyhoo, may I ask you which Yamaha and Onkyo receivers you AB compared? In your room on the 802s, or in a store room? I won't even ask you if they were level matched, as that is assumed on my part. Thanks.

 

[Djizasse]

Thanks for your input jostenmeat

When I mentioned lag, it's not about audio not being synchronized with the image. It's both being delayed by the same amount.
This is something you will not notice in a movie.

The lag will only be a problem with games, the audio/video cannot be delayed or I'll always be one step behind. Imagine playing guitar hero or a FPS with delayed audio/video.

I would really appreciate if you could try a game or two just to check for delay. If you do notice delay, I wonder if turning off all video processing would fix it.

----- ----- ----- ----- -----

I believe the 1800 and the 806 are good receivers that can give enough power to my RSs. They both cover my basic needs (power, HDMI inputs, latest HD codecs, pre-outs and multichannel inputs). The 805 would be my beast (really an animal) of choice, the amplifier section is really good for the money asked. It's hard to find a black one for a good price though.

The Onkyo 806 seems to have better EQ and bass management, that would let me tune the receiver + speakers for better room integration.
Audissey seems much better than the Yamaha's version.

A negative point for Onkyo is the firmware upgrades and factory "recalls" to fix some problems. If I get a Onkyo I will ask for a new unit for the factory, if possible. They seem to have corrected the problems.

The Yamaha, on the other hand, just seems to work without problems. I didn't found anyone complaining about anything.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Video processing is not a requirement. I only use a Xbox 360, a HTPC and a HD-DVD player. All through HDMI.

I'll take a read at both manuals to see if there's any deal breaker about functionality and usability.

 

[greggp2]

IIRC, I think that in fact your 861 is more powerful than the 663/863. I think a while ago PENG was posting about that.



It is the bang for buck amplifier section in a receiver.



Not really. There were a few folks who complained that the audio was delayed after the video on the 805, even with delay setting to zero. Some of these folks said that updating final FW of 1.08 really ameliorated that. I never touched my version 1.06, and I have no issue. Trust me, I would be able to tell on my huge screen. OTOH, since I sit further away than many others, there is that tiny bit of time for sound to travel that distance. However, I don't sit so far away to make it the reason why I have no issue. I have applied various levels of delay to my source inputs.



Yamaha does make a lot of value instruments, sometimes a lot better for one type of instrument than another. Also, a lot of pro audio stuff, motorcycles, Disklavier, etc. But, I don't think that argument really flies. I'm not saying that Yamaha isn't better for receivers, just that the argument is silly. Onkyo only makes audio gear. So, you could say they concentrate their business. For instance, I've found that Nokia makes a good cell phone, but that's all they really do. They're not all over the place like Motorola, Samsung, etc.

Anyhoo, may I ask you which Yamaha and Onkyo receivers you AB compared? In your room on the 802s, or in a store room? I won't even ask you if they were level matched, as that is assumed on my part. Thanks.

You bring up some good points and I'm not saying Onkyo doesn't make a good receiver. They do, I just like Yamaha a little better. It is more musical, but they also have a tendency to be a bit bright with my speakers. That's why I won't buy one while I have B&W's.

I had an Onkyo 787 and a buddy of mine had a Yamaha (I honestly don't remember the model, but it was comparably priced). He brought it over so we could do a comparison about 4 years ago, but at the time, I didn't have my 802's. I was using B&O Beolab 3's, so the comparisons we did were more processor based, than an Amp hookup, since the B&O's have their own Amps.

I personally thought the Yamaha sounded a bit more musical, as did he. I ended up switching to a Rotel RSX-1056 which sounded much better than the Onkyo and I am currently using that to power my 802's until my Arcam AVR350 comes in.

I know that others will argue that the Onkyo is a better piece, while some will agree with me. Both make good products, but the Onkyo I had ran very hot. I've heard the same about most of their units.

Of the two, I prefer Yamaha, but don't necessarily recommend Yamaha with B&W's. I think they lack some of the warmth that other AVR's offer, as they sound bright and cause listening fatigue.

I recently tried the new RX-V3900 and returned it after 30 days to Best Buy because I couldn't listen to music at high volume levels for any length of time. Others however love this unit and with other speakers, it may be a better match...

Anyway, hope this helps. This has been my experience...

 

[jostenmeat]

I would really appreciate if you could try a game or two just to check for delay. If you do notice delay, I wonder if turning off all video processing would fix it.

I would if I could. I don't own a gaming machine. I am positive that my brother would be more than happy to oblige in bringing his xbox over, but it doesn't have HDMI. I would then run component directly to display, and spdif to receiver.

You don't want to use the VP of the 805. I'm not sure on the 806, but I doubt it there too. Just pass thru (you know what I mean). If you did want to upconvert component video, the 876 is the bang for buck in a receiver.

I had an Onkyo 787 and a buddy of mine had a Yamaha (I honestly don't remember the model, but it was comparably priced). He brought it over so we could do a comparison about 4 years ago, but at the time, I didn't have my 802's. I was using B&O Beolab 3's, so the comparisons we did were more processor based, than an Amp hookup, since the B&O's have their own Amps.

Thanks for your explanation. I've only heard very good things about Yammy preamp sections, and not always so for the analog sections of the Onkyos, of today. However, if you were using digital connections, I'm not sure if you could tell. I understand that you know that all digital things become analog, but I have reason to believe that there are analog components of a receiver that are not essential when HDMI is used, that might affect SQ. (Even extremely picky folks are more than happy in these cases with Onkyo/Integra, but not always with the analog inputs).

 

[greggp2]

No problem. They are both good companies and each have their pros and cons. In the en d, you have to weight everything out and go with what's best for you.

 

[Djizasse]

Ok, the Yamaha 1800 is not possible to get for a good price, I can't find any good deal on it.

For now I have this, the price is with P&P and in Euros, but it serves as a comparison purpose:
806 - €730
876 - €750

Good price on the 876, bad price on the 806.
I'm finding very hard to shell out the €750 :\

I'll continue to look around... something will come up. This is not easy.

 

[lsiberian]

Ok, the Yamaha 1800 is not possible to get for a good price, I can't find any good deal on it.

For now I have this, the price is with P&P and in Euros, but it serves as a comparison purpose:
806 - €730
876 - €750

Good price on the 876, bad price on the 806.
I'm finding very hard to shell out the €750 :\

I'll continue to look around... something will come up. This is not easy.

The 876 is the WTG IMO.

the 06s are a sorrowful step down.

 

[Djizasse]

The 876 is the WTG IMO.

the 06s are a sorrowful step down.

I would to get the 876, but I don't want to spend that much.

 

[jostenmeat]

Ok, the Yamaha 1800 is not possible to get for a good price, I can't find any good deal on it.

For now I have this, the price is with P&P and in Euros, but it serves as a comparison purpose:
806 - €730
876 - €750

Good price on the 876, bad price on the 806.
I'm finding very hard to shell out the €750 :\

I'll continue to look around... something will come up. This is not easy.

Man, I guess we are pretty luck here in the US with the prices we can get. Yeah, that is an utter no brainer between those two. If you can't find something that works well for you at, say, 500 Euros, I'd pony up for the 876 too. You get Audyssey XT, which is worth a lot already in my book, Reon HQV, ISF controls that can be applied not just to each source, but multiple times for each source for night vs day viewing. You can apply three types of NR and EE to sources like standard def, but I do not how well it does these things. Most likely better than anything thing else you can find in the price bracket, though an outboard device is always going to be superior.