NAD or Mckintosh?

[clouso]

Ok when i get my second sub12 i wanna upgrade something else and i guess you know what now lol.........simple question for you experts!...you can see my set up and i have 2 choices for pre amp and amp pls tell me what brand you would go between those 2 ...NAD or Mckintosh??...those are the 2 i can have real good deals and thats why im asking about them...thx.

 

[BudgetHT]

Hard to say without A/Bing them, but just off the top of my head I would say McIntosh...

 

[kortex]

McIntosh! If only for the blue meters .

 

[PENG]

I believe if both are performing to their design specs and used within their output limit, they would, and should sound the same to most people. In that case, I would take the McIntosh for sure, assuming their physical conditions are comparable.

 

[GranteedEV]

A NAD Master Prepro (upgradable modules)
a McIntosh amp (excellent build quality).
or just emotiva and save some money

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

McIntosh, of course.

NAD is awesome, but McIntosh is legendary.

 

[m_vanmeter]

McIntosh !

interesting 2005 photo tour of the McIntosh factory, not the greatest pictures, but you get the idea.

http://www.stereopal.com/McIntoshIntro.htm and a 2006 tour http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/mcintosh-factory-tour-1-2007-part-1.html

nice to see audio equipment still assembled and tested in the US.

 

[Pyrrho]

Why bother? What is wrong with your current receiver?

In general, if you want an actual improvement in sound, you should focus on speakers, their placement, and room acoustics. "Upgrading" your receiver, if it has all the features you need, is functioning properly, and is adequately driving your speakers, is a waste of money.

 

[Warpdrv]

Why bother? What is wrong with your current receiver?

In general, if you want an actual improvement in sound, you should focus on speakers, their placement, and room acoustics. "Upgrading" your receiver, if it has all the features you need, is functioning properly, and is adequately driving your speakers, is a waste of money.

Don't even..... That Pioneer is thin sounding and harsh, wanna know how I know, I owned 2 of them, and replaced 1 with my D2v, and will be replacing the second with the AV7005..... I had external amps for both systems and when I removed one of the amps for a short period of time I couldn't believe how nasty it sounded driven by the internal amps.....

Pioneers room correction is crap on those older units, and their amps are harsh as well. I can't speak for the latest iteration of their room correction but the MCACC it didn't do squat for me. When the D2v replaced it, I never would have realized how just plain edgy it was....

Personally If I was you clouso, I would look to getting something with a decent room correction feature, like audyssey or Anthems new line of receivers with ARC are really leaving the competition behind.... NAD and MC are nice, but if you truly want a great experience for HT or even 2 ch - I would highly suggest ARC or Audyssey, if not adding on audyssey pro.

 

[Pyrrho]

Don't even..... That Pioneer is thin sounding and harsh, wanna know how I know, I owned 2 of them, and replaced 1 with my D2v, and will be replacing the second with the AV7005..... I had external amps for both systems and when I removed one of the amps for a short period of time I couldn't believe how nasty it sounded driven by the internal amps.....

Pioneers room correction is crap on those older units, and their amps are harsh as well. I can't speak for the latest iteration of their room correction but the MCACC it didn't do squat for me. When the D2v replaced it, I never would have realized how just plain edgy it was....

Personally If I was you clouso, I would look to getting something with a decent room correction feature, like audyssey or Anthems new line of receivers with ARC are really leaving the competition behind.... NAD and MC are nice, but if you truly want a great experience for HT or even 2 ch - I would highly suggest ARC or Audyssey, if not adding on audyssey pro.

The professional reviews of Pioneer receivers indicate that they sound fine:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/allContents

Unfortunately, they do not seem to have reviewed the specific model owned by clouso. But they do review a lower model from the same time:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-vsx-82txs

And rather interestingly, they say "One of the better auto calibration system’s on the market", among other nice things (though they don't like the remote or the video processing on that model, but they like the way it sounds).

I stand by my original comments.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Home Theater Mag just reviewed the Pioneer Elite 37 AVR, and the specs were very impressive.

I think it was like 160+ WPC x 7ch driven 8ohms, 0.007% THD, Crosstalk -97dB, SNR 105dB, FR 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.4dB.

I can't speak for Room Corrections since I never use them.

I always use Direct or Pure Direct modes for both music and movies and bypass all Room Corrections and EQs.

You know why, right?

My DefTech BP7000 speakers are SO AWESOME and have such great off-axis response that Room Corrections, EQs, and Room treatments are absolutely irrelevant.

 

[Pyrrho]

Home Theater Mag just reviewed the Pioneer Elite 37 AVR, and the specs were very impressive.

I think it was like 160+ WPC x 7ch driven 8ohms, 0.007% THD, Crosstalk -97dB, SNR 105dB, FR 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.4dB.

I can't speak for Room Corrections since I never use them.

I always use Direct or Pure Direct modes for both music and movies and bypass all Room Corrections and EQs.

You know why, right?

My DefTech BP7000 speakers are SO AWESOME and have such great off-axis response that Room Corrections, EQs, and Room treatments are absolutely irrelevant.

Did they say the Pioneer was "thin sounding and harsh"?

 

[Warpdrv]

And how often do you read bad reviews from any of these rags.

I'll give the pioneer ok marks, it works all the time with no glitches ever - for me. But if you would like to put it up side by side against some more refined products, even without room corr. I think you'd be surprised at how semi lackluster the sound is.
Not nearly the depth or width of soundstage they have with 2 channel audio.

I'll stand by my comments as I've done A/B blind switched comparos at my dealer. He's got the equipment to do it.

 

[mannoiaj]

You get a nice deal on McIntosh and NAD and want to upgrade... So long as you're functioning on some sort of a budget I'd purchase what gives you the best bang for the buck while having the feautures you need. I'd also probably look at probable future resale values as well. An amp will generally have much better resale value than a processor... so if your getting both you may want to think about that. Processors to me are like computers... there's always something new and better, and that's why their resale values resemble that of a computer.

 

[Pyrrho]

And how often do you read bad reviews from any of these rags.

I'll give the pioneer ok marks, it works all the time with no glitches ever - for me. But if you would like to put it up side by side against some more refined products, even without room corr. I think you'd be surprised at how semi lackluster the sound is.
Not nearly the depth or width of soundstage they have with 2 channel audio.

I'll stand by my comments as I've done A/B blind switched comparos at my dealer. He's got the equipment to do it.

So you think the people running this site are incompetent or bought off? They have reviewed many Pioneer products, and have never said what you say. Furthermore, you have provided ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that any of the "problems" you have heard are real. Did you do a properly conducted double blind test? Did you actually measure the performance to see what was occurring?

 

[PENG]

Don't even..... That Pioneer is thin sounding and harsh, wanna know how I know, I owned 2 of them, and replaced 1 with my D2v, and will be replacing the second with the AV7005..... I had external amps for both systems and when I removed one of the amps for a short period of time I couldn't believe how nasty it sounded driven by the internal amps.....

I may be wrong but I thought the OP was talking about a 2 channel system. For HT I can uderstand how the AV7005 can sound better to you than the Pioneer and vice versa for others. For 2 channel pure direct, any differences perceived between a Pio and Marantz courld well be Placebo effect IMHO; and I would suggest the OP to listen, play, read, and choose, instead of listening to other's opionions regarding which one sounds better.

 

[Warpdrv]

Whatever Pyrrho, you want to come at me and say that all amps sound the same, please feel free and I'll agree with you.... Though I will ask you if you have ever heard a tube amp instantly switched over to a solid state amp with the push of a button and tell me you can't hear a difference.... solid state to solid state - I hear no difference.... A/Bing amps is a waste of time.

Come to me and tell me that all processors are built the same and sound the same is a whole different argument... DACs, ADACs, even electronic structure of the build or a processor can and will make a difference... heck why do you think so many people chase the whole HT bypass and incorporate a entirely different 2 channel processor into the mix..... simple - to allow for a far better sense of enveloping sound stage.... I and the SE WI GTG's that we've held here have tested these HT bypass and with the push of a button on the remote all that were involved could easily tell the difference of width and depth of soundstage of the exact same source and material every time - Yamaha AVR and Parasound 2100, the parasound sounded amazingly better every time...

I have conducted these tests plenty of times with myself and good friends who will be more then happy to back up my claims about different processors. How many GTG's have you hosted / attended ?

Apparently you have never taken the time to ever head out to multiple dealerships and spend time A/Bing processors of many different variations and explore the possibilities...

Pioneer receivers sound fine, for HT, they are pretty good, and for 2 ch they are just OK, but there are much better processors out there, especially with better built in room correction, but there are better products out on the market.

Please show me how Pioneer has gone to the lengths of showing off its MCACC RC compared to the likes of Audyssey and Anthems ARC.

I have no need to prove myself to you or anyone else out there, my rep stands on its own and I could care less about your regurgitation of the whole every piece of electronic equipment sounds the same.... You've obviously not taken the time to go out and listen to other products out there and have no problem being sold to by online reviews...

 

[Warpdrv]

I may be wrong but I thought the OP was talking about a 2 channel system. For HT I can uderstand how the AV7005 can sound better to you than the Pioneer and vice versa for others. For 2 channel pure direct, any differences perceived between a Pio and Marantz courld well be Placebo effect IMHO; and I would suggest the OP to listen, play, read, and choose, instead of listening to other's opionions regarding which one sounds better.

I didn't take his post to mean 2 channel audio, especially with his stating "you can see my setup" which to me looks like a HT scenario.

In that case the implementation of a more "established" room correction product which can make plenty of difference in his need for a better experience.

Ok when i get my second sub12 i wanna upgrade something else and i guess you know what now lol.........simple question for you experts!...you can see my set up and i have 2 choices for pre amp and amp pls tell me what brand you would go between those 2 ...NAD or Mckintosh??...those are the 2 i can have real good deals and thats why im asking about them...thx.

His equip list
Fronts: paradigm studio 60 v5
Center channel: paradigm studio cc 590 v5
Surrounds: paradigm studio 20 v5
Subwoofer: paradigm sub 12
Av receiver: pioneer elite vsx 92 thx

 

[PENG]

I didn't take his post to mean 2 channel audio, especially with his stating "you can see my setup" which to me looks like a HT scenario.

In that case the implementation of a more "established" room correction product which can make plenty of difference in his need for a better experience.



His equip list
Fronts: paradigm studio 60 v5
Center channel: paradigm studio cc 590 v5
Surrounds: paradigm studio 20 v5
Subwoofer: paradigm sub 12
Av receiver: pioneer elite vsx 92 thx

Again, I could be wrong and you may be right. When I see "preamp" I assume he meant 2 channel but of course he could have meant prepro or multichannel preamp. If he meant prepro then the McIntosh would likely cost much more than the NAD with comparable features.

 

[clouso]

Ok thx for all the replies!...first yes it is for HT but also music! but i dont really listen to 2 channel stereo music most of the time i listen to music on ''ext stereo'' mode which means all speakers are playing that is because i prefer that more envelloping sound...now a little story about my pioneer....3 weeks ago or so i had a party here at my place (wich happend quite often lol)....and about 30 mins after i cranked the volume up the pioneer stopped playing !!...it was so hot i could bake an egg on it!!...i said to me self...woohh that should not happend again!...i think it lacks power for my use and if every time i crank the volume up it stops i will be very pissed!!...that is why i want to upgrade...and all people that no better then me about it including you guys here seems to agree that i would benifit from upgrading also my local dealer would agree with you that i would get a better sound also using a pre pro or pre amb and an amp!...clipping receiver because i crank the volume up... NO thx!.