How Not To Sell A Receiver

[admin]

Recently I completed a series of articles comparing entry level, $500, and $1000 receivers. Beforehand I wondered how accurate are the specifications on the manufacturers websites? I'm not talking about the power ratings, we know those are mostly rubbish. I'm talking about the list of features. The number of inputs, the DSP modes, the compatibility, or even the chips used. Can you trust them? Are they accurate? Are they even complete? In my recent experience - No. Here's a short list of some of the things I found when trying to create a useful comparison document for our readers.

Discuss "How Not To Sell A Receiver" here. Read the article.

 

[smurphy522]

Nice Rant Tom.

I have to agree with everything especially the mis-information part where a Manuf. states that a specific chip or feature is being used only to find out after the purchase that was incorrect.

"Sorry to you consumer.....thanks for buying our product though". As for the features which a product may have but is not listed..that's just so stupid. The Marketing guy (or team) responsible should be let go. Period!

P.S. I knew the Onkyo 808 has HDMI-pass through in stand-by since my model several levels below it does. Funny Onkyo does not mention it specifically for any of their 2010 line up. All of them from thew 308 on up have it...take a look at the front picture and you'll see the (pass through light near the left power button). Go figure?

 

[highfigh]

Recently I completed a series of articles comparing entry level, $500, and $1000 receivers. Beforehand I wondered how accurate are the specifications on the manufacturers websites? I'm not talking about the power ratings, we know those are mostly rubbish. I'm talking about the list of features. The number of inputs, the DSP modes, the compatibility, or even the chips used. Can you trust them? Are they accurate? Are they even complete? In my recent experience - No. Here's a short list of some of the things I found when trying to create a useful comparison document for our readers.

Discuss "How Not To Sell A Receiver" here. Read the article.

Have you ever thought of contacting the FTC over these? If it's not as it's described, they used to go after the manufacturer or seller, if it happens enough times, or it's serious enough. OTOH, they already pulled the teeth of the power ratings that were set in the '70s, so I guess all they can do now is gum the perpetrators to death.

 

[Bret19]

Tom,

If it makes you feel any better, I extensively used the $250 & $500 articles you wrote. I decided to buy a receiver and speaker package for my parents for Christmas. It was an absolute nightmare figuring out the features a receiver has and does not have.

Even with your great articles, I still had to download manuals. After downloading manuals and not finding the information I emailed the vendors. I also cursed and yelled when Yamaha made me fill out an account form to download a user manual. Everything you said is so true, and it really made shopping for a receiver a crappy experience.

By the way, the number one feature I wanted in a receiver was nearly impossible to figure out over the web and requires contacting customer support. I wanted a receiver that displays the volume of the receiver on the TV over an HDMI cable. It is beyond my comprehension why any AV receiver would not offer this feature (maybe someone could enlighten me as to why anyone would buy a receive without this feature).

Denon, if you are listening you lost a sale because I would have to spend $800 to see the volume display on the TV.

 

[GranteedEV]

pfft, who reads receiver feature lists.

I'd just go for the brand that subjective magazines say is the most warm and fuzzy

 

[Puppetz]

Nice rant. A bit random, but I have a possible answer for the question "Why exactly do they have a line with a feature and a dash indicating it doesn't have it?" This may have to do with the fact that many companies now let you compare various models. They may need to include the line with the dash to get the comparison to sync up for all of the particular features. Granted, I can see this as an explanation for dashes showing on feature lists displayed on company websites. But if you download a .pdf spec or feature sheet of a particular model, it shouldn't show features with dashes.

 

[jliedeka]

Nice rant, Tom. When I upgraded my receiver a few years ago, I looked everywhere for info. In addition to manufacturer sites, I looked at AV publication web sites, consumer review sites and forum posts. Maybe marketers are just used to stupid consumers that will buy whatever the guy at the big box store recommends. Audioholic people seem to be in the minority.

Jim

 

[smurphy522]

Nice rant. A bit random, but I have a possible answer for the question "Why exactly do they have a line with a feature and a dash indicating it doesn't have it?" This may have to do with the fact that many companies now let you compare various models. They may need to include the line with the dash to get the comparison to sync up for all of the particular features. Granted, I can see this as an explanation for dashes showing on feature lists displayed on company websites. But if you download a .pdf spec or feature sheet of a particular model, it shouldn't show features with dashes.

Most likely to get prospective buyers to realize there is that feature available on a higher end model (possibly).

 

[KEW]

Maybe marketers are just used to stupid consumers that will buy whatever the guy at the big box store recommends. Audioholic people seem to be in the minority.

Jim

This is true, but I think you also have to factor in the marketing mantra -
"A confused customer is a profitable customer!"

 

[highfigh]

Nice rant. A bit random, but I have a possible answer for the question "Why exactly do they have a line with a feature and a dash indicating it doesn't have it?" This may have to do with the fact that many companies now let you compare various models. They may need to include the line with the dash to get the comparison to sync up for all of the particular features. Granted, I can see this as an explanation for dashes showing on feature lists displayed on company websites. But if you download a .pdf spec or feature sheet of a particular model, it shouldn't show features with dashes.

That's a master list of features and eliminates the need to make a separate list for all of their models. Think of it as a menu where they check off what they want to show. Yes/No may be more helpful for some but a check mark and a dash work just as well if the purpose of each is shown.

 

[scott911]

a legal walk up call is really all that will work to get the manufactures to take it seriously... worked with the power tool industry when they starting claiming amperages that were IMPOSSIBLE to get through tyhe cord provided. Also worked in a stated engine horsepower claim that was proven false.

 

[emorphien]

Wow, I have so much to look forward to next time I buy a receiver. They were so much simpler when I got the H/K I'm using now.

 

[gene]

I really love when Tom writes these type of articles as you can be sure within 2 business days I hear hell from the manufacturers he singles out. I just had a lovely conversation with one in particular It's nice to know that the manufacturers pay attention to our articles, especially Toms

 

[Da5id]

How Does Audioholics Fare?

As a vendor of A/V equipment, Audioholics is in a precarious situation. It both reviews and comments on equipment and the industry and sells the products of that same industry. I purchased a Yamaha AV receiver, Oppo Blu-ray player, Atlantic Technology speakers, and a Velodyne subwoofer.

All in all, I was satisfied with my purchase. However, I was puzzled by the purchase experience. Most of the products in this bundle had no reviews or specifications. I was referred to the manufacturers' website. Granted, the Yamaha was not the one offered – Audioholics graciously accepted an after order change for a similarly priced 11-model-months old-Yamaha. I was very pleased with this purchase and was disappointed when I purchased another identical Yamaha for a different room a few short months later it was unavailable at Audioholics and I had to go to another vendor who was not offering the free extended warranty. (Very appealing for A/V components other than speakers.)

My point, in case it is not clear with all the tangents and asides, is that Audioholics has seemingly taken the position of buyer beware and referred its customers to the manufacturers' websites. (Thank goodness for tabbed browsers when comparison shopping.) The selfsame websites identified in this opinion piece as unreliable.

– Gene

PS: I opened my Audioholics online account after my purchase. Unusual for me, I purchased by telephone.

 

[Da5id]

Tom,

If it makes you feel any better, I extensively used the $250 & $500 articles you wrote. I decided to buy a receiver and speaker package for my parents for Christmas. It was an absolute nightmare figuring out the features a receiver has and does not have.

Even with your great articles, I still had to download manuals. After downloading manuals and not finding the information I emailed the vendors. I also cursed and yelled when Yamaha made me fill out an account form to download a user manual. Everything you said is so true, and it really made shopping for a receiver a crappy experience.

By the way, the number one feature I wanted in a receiver was nearly impossible to figure out over the web and requires contacting customer support. I wanted a receiver that displays the volume of the receiver on the TV over an HDMI cable. It is beyond my comprehension why any AV receiver would not offer this feature (maybe someone could enlighten me as to why anyone would buy a receive without this feature).

Denon, if you are listening you lost a sale because I would have to spend $800 to see the volume display on the TV.

My brother must have purchased the same Denon that you did, because all of the on-screen controls were displayed through an absolutely necessary and separate S-video connection. If my memory serves me, he had to crawl behind everything, unhook the HDMI monitor connection and connect the S-video. A guest using this system could easily screw everything up requiring this – I think his next purchase was a top-of-the-line Harmony remote.

Speaking of on-screen controls, why do manufacturers of home theater A/V switching amplifiers believe that blocky white on black nested text menus are appealing or even functional. They should take a cue from manufacturers like LG who make plasma screens with everything behind a single sheet of smoked glass (on the borders) and menus that look like they licensed the look and feel from Microsoft Aero – both beautiful and functional.

 

[Bret19]

My brother must have purchased the same Denon that you did, because all of the on-screen controls were displayed through an absolutely necessary and separate S-video connection. If my memory serves me, he had to crawl behind everything, unhook the HDMI monitor connection and connect the S-video. A guest using this system could easily screw everything up requiring this – I think his next purchase was a top-of-the-line Harmony remote.

I actually ended up buying the Onkyo HT-RC260 for $320. I would have needed to buy the much more expensive Denon AVR-891 (way above my gift giving budget) to see the volume on the screen. A few months ago I bought the Denon AVR-791 and I was amazed to find out a $500 receiver could not display the volume on the TV over an HDMI cable. I was not about to start using S-Video cables like your brother, and I agree with your comments about black and white text. I ended up returning the AVR-791.

 

[emorphien]

My point, in case it is not clear with all the tangents and asides, is that Audioholics has seemingly taken the position of buyer beware and referred its customers to the manufacturers' websites. (Thank goodness for tabbed browsers when comparison shopping.) The selfsame websites identified in this opinion piece as unreliable.

It's openly stated by Audioholics that the store and this site are essentially separate entities. I believe AH basically grants them permission to operate the store under the AH name but has no real significant interaction with it other than that.

 

[AVTguy]

From the Sellers end...

AMEN TOM!

I could not agree any with anyone anymore than I do with you on your article.

As an A/V systems designer, I'm responsible for portraying the correct information to the buyer/end user. Personally I use manufacturers websites on a daily basis to compare product, and features against other websites. I would say that the websites that present the information in the most transparent way usually end up with the sale, especially if I have the client watching the screen while I'm showing him the side by side comparisons.

The mid-high end consumer AV retailer faces a lot of tough clients daily. Some of them just want to be treated with respect and don't care about the equipment, just that it works perfect 100% of the time. Others want to know every little detail, or feel that the numbers REALLY matter, when in reality, almost every manufacturer offers something incredibly comparable at nearly every $100 price point. In the year that brought 3D TVs to the market, many people are still just purchasing THEIR FIRST HDTV. While I wouldn't say that's necessarily the norm for a retailer, that customer definitely exists and needs to be treated in a special way to get them the best experience possible for their jump into our Digital World.

Most buyers/end users have no idea about 75% of the things that a modern A/V receiver does. Most don't care either. Its just about working right, and sounding "good". Cheap TV's don't help the Audio world either. I'm not talking about inexpensive and small sets, but I mean a great TV can be purchased at a fraction of the cost that they used to 5 years ago. On top of that, the TV can DO way more than any set from 5 years ago, and will almost certainly have a more vivid picture and apealing form factor.

This is not a bad thing. This is a great thing. TVs should be better and cheaper all the time. The problem is Audio doesn't really change much. Good quality sound is good quality sound. Speakers are great and still cost the same. Receivers however have become a consumable item, just like TV. As the Picture Features on the TVs increase, and the instant content availability keeps reformatting and updating itself, the receivers always need to be able to take care of the latest codec.

Mr. George Lucas is known as saying, "50% of the experience is the sound," and with that line inlies the ultimate problem that the manufacturers, retailers, and buyers face. If the other 50% (the picture), has now become a price gouged comodity item, the inherent feeling towards needing a great audio system is greatly marginalized by the end user. This is not to be meant as complete and utter truth or necessarily the norm, but over the last two years. especially with how the AV industry has strained, the audio experience has been forced into the same realm as the TV world; cheap, feature "ridden", one-up marketing, quickly obsolete.

 

[jp_over]

"But really, Yamaha has to take the cake when it comes to making it hard to know what exactly their receivers do. If I was trying to find a feature and it wasn't listed, I'd do what you'd think - download the manual. But wait! At Yamaha, you have to have an EasyPass account. Guess what, Yamaha? I don't want an account. I don't want you to have my email (not that they don't already, but that's not the point). I don't want any more spam. In my case, I don't want to have yet another copy of your recent press release (I already get everything in at least duplicate, sometimes triplicate). What I want is to download a simple PDF. That's all. It isn't state secrets, it isn't proprietary information. It's a user manual. Just give it to me already."

++ 1! I thought I was the only one outraged about this egregious & malicious attack on the very nature of humanity! Glad to hear a big brand (one of my favorites in fact!) called out publically on their marketing department's misbehavior.

 

[xyvyx]

Bravo, Tom

Great article, Tom...
and AVTguy, several good points!

Receivers and home theater devices in general are getting so complex these days that I can understand when the marketing and public relations teams can't keep up with all the features available. There are so many standards and formats for audio and video that it would make an engineer's head spin... the average consume doesn't stand a chance.

That said, I think what we're witnessing here is the convergence of mediocrity.

• convenience/simplicity over quality. aka iPods over SACD. Most folks would rather easily listen to any compressed song they want via some crappy ear buds vs. a crystal-clear recording in their living room or w/ some bulky ear muffs.
• we'll fix it later. As others have mentioned, most manufacturers want to release a product and move on. If there's a bug, it'll be addressed in the next product cycle. Missing info on the website? With larger companies, getting that concern routed to the responsible party is 99% of the battle.
• sales drones. The vast majority of home entertainment equipment will be sold via Big Box retailers where most of the staff know only of the features listed on the pricetag & whatever buzz word feature happens to be popular at the time. Half the motivation is to simply sell us cables w/ a 500% markup.

But there is light!

First, I don't want to take away from the value of the remaining HiFi shops where they often DO have knowledgeable staff & wonderful speakers you can't get anywhere else. Second, I don't want to over-generalize... I was at a Magnolia within a local Best Buy a few weekends ago and the staff, while young and possibly just "transfers" from the regular BB employee pool, were quite knowledgeable and friendly.

I think many would agree that the emergence in the past several years of many high-quality & high-value online, direct-to-consumer electronics companies has been a godsend to us Audioholics! I'm talking about smaller companies who make great products, publish copious amounts of information, keep their prices reasonable and generally shake up whatever market segment they're in. In my case, I've made multiple purchases from Oppo and Emotiva and couldn't be happier.

So while the state of mass-market product *marketing* is pretty abysmal, the fact is that there are many high-quality devices out there for lower prices than ever before. Compound that with the many online-only boutique giant-killer products and it's a good time to be a consumer!