Sigberg Audio Saranna Active Floor-Standing Loudspeakers With Cardioid Bass!

[shadyJ]

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Our past encounters with Sigberg Audio products had left us deeply impressed by their engineering expertise as was seen in our reviews of the SBS.1 active speaker and 10D subwoofer. It wasn’t just their craftsmanship and performance that impressed us but also their adherence to sensible design concepts that doesn’t really resemble anything else on the market despite how rational these approaches are. So when Sigberg Audio announces a new product, it definitely pays to listen for anyone interested in high-fidelity sound. This brings us to Sigberg Audio’s launch of a new floor-standing speaker that is packed to the gills with state-of-the-art loudspeaker design: the Saranna.

READ: Sigberg Audio Saranna Loudspeaker Preview

 

[Steve81]

Impressive work yet again from Sigberg Audio.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I am available to answer questions if anyone has any.

And for those who happen to be local to Norway or Scandinavia, the Sarannas will premiere at the Oslo HiFi Show this weekend.

 

[Steve81]

I am available to answer questions if anyone has any.

And for those who happen to be local to Norway or Scandinavia, the Sarannas will premiere at the Oslo HiFi Show this weekend.

I remember bugging you about it a little way back when. Would love to hear a pair if one ever made it near the Washington DC area. A formidable aio-type system with a compact footprint and simple but elegant style is just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I remember bugging you about it a little way back when. Would love to hear a pair if one ever made it near the Washington DC area. A formidable aio-type system with a compact footprint and simple but elegant style is just what the doctor ordered.

Yes, not sure when that would become a possibility. There are however discussions about an Audioholics review and possibly selling the review pair in Canada or the US afterwards. With a discount of course.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Norwegian Stereopluss visited me just the other day as well to take a closer look at the Saranna before the upcoming Oslo Hifi Show. In this video I talk a bit about the construction and also show both the bass driver and the coax driver. The video is in Norwegian, but there are english subtitles. The video should also be helpful to get a better impression of the speakers than just pictures.

 

[TLS Guy]

View attachment 72846​

Our past encounters with Sigberg Audio products had left us deeply impressed by their engineering expertise as was seen in our reviews of the SBS.1 active speaker and 10D subwoofer. It wasn’t just their craftsmanship and performance that impressed us but also their adherence to sensible design concepts that doesn’t really resemble anything else on the market despite how rational these approaches are. So when Sigberg Audio announces a new product, it definitely pays to listen for anyone interested in high-fidelity sound. This brings us to Sigberg Audio’s launch of a new floor-standing speaker that is packed to the gills with state-of-the-art loudspeaker design: the Saranna.

READ: Sigberg Audio Saranna Loudspeaker Preview

Nice to see an integrated design. It seems from this speaker and the Albedo that Gene liked do much in Florida, that I have been about 20 years ahead of the game. The speaker I'm referring to was a TL and Gene could not believe there was no sub.

So, it is nice to welcome this new integrated full range active speaker.

I do have one piece of advice. If you are going to design a full range active speaker to fit in with the current AV environment then you need to take into account the subwoofer outputs.

This is for two reasons.

1). You need to be able to reproduce the LFE channel.

2). You need to be able to redirect the bass of other smaller speakers to those full range speakers.
This latter is VERY important and I would say essential.

This can easily be done with a mixer circuit which is not complex.

So in my design the full range right and left speakers have the sub inputs mixed in.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Nice to see an integrated design. It seems from this speaker and the Albedo that Gene liked do much in Florida, that I have been about 20 years ahead of the game. The speaker I'm referring to was a TL and Gene could not believe there was no sub.

So, it is nice to welcome this new integrated full range active speaker.

I do have one piece of advice. If you are going to design a full range active speaker to fit in with the current AV environment then you need to take into account the subwoofer outputs.

This is for two reasons.

1). You need to be able to reproduce the LFE channel.

2). You need to be able to redirect the bass of other smaller speakers to those full range speakers.
This latter is VERY important and I would say essential.

This can easily be done with a mixer circuit which is not complex.

So in my design the full range right and left speakers have the sub inputs mixed in.

Our main audience is still the 2-channel crowd, so this speaker is geared more towards those who for some reason do NOT want a subwoofer, those who do should look at our other offerings (unless they insist on having a floorstander of course).

That being said, doesn't almost everyone with an AV setup have a surround receiver / processor that can do everything you mention?

 

[TLS Guy]

Our main audience is still the 2-channel crowd, so this speaker is geared more towards those who for some reason do NOT want a subwoofer, those who do should look at our other offerings.

That being said, doesn't almost everyone with an AV setup have a surround receiver / processor that can do everything you mention?

It does but not with your speakers. You see the LFE and the bass below crossover for each of the other speakers presents itself at the sub out, outputs. In an AVP this is on RCA and XLR outputs. For AVRs it will be at the RCA sub outs.

Now there is a lot of domestic resistance to "boxy" subs. Having your elegant speakers not be able to reproduce AV content properly is a big miss on your part in my view.

In Europe AV is not so big. In the US it is big. So I think you absolutely do need to add sub inputs both RCA and xlr. My AV room would be at a huge disadvantage if the right and left mains could not also capture the sub outs from the AVP. In my view it is essential to do that in the AV environment, otherwise it is pointless having mains with an F3 of 25 Hz. I am sorry, but this is a huge oversight you need to correct, and it will be easy.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

It does but not with your speakers. You see the LFE and the bass below crossover for each of the other speakers presents itself at the sub out, outputs. In an AVP this is on RCA and XLR outputs. For AVRs it will be at the RCA sub outs.

Now there is a lot of domestic resistance to "boxy" subs. Having your elegant speakers not be able to reproduce AV content properly is a big miss on your part in my view.

In Europe AV is not so big. In the US it is big. So I think you absolutely do need to add sub inputs both RCA and xlr. My AV room would be at a huge disadvantage if the right and left mains could not also capture the sub outs from the AVP. In my view it is essential to do that in the AV environment, otherwise it is pointless having mains with an F3 of 25 Hz. I am sorry, but this is a huge oversight you need to correct, and it will be easy.

AV is big in Europe as well.

I don't think this is accurate. If a subwoofer isn't connected, an AVR will route lfe to the mains.

 

[Steve81]

AV is big in Europe as well.

I don't think this is accurate. If a subwoofer isn't connected, an AVR will route lfe to the mains.

Even sans an AVR, soundtracks are usually engineered to sound good in stereo, even if the ideal is surround / immersive audio. Most people listen in stereo (tv speakers, headphones), and relatively few have the time and inclination to go nuts with an Atmos rig.

 

[TLS Guy]

It does but not with your speakers. You see the LFE and the bass below crossover for each of the other speakers presents itself at the sub out, outputs. In an AVP this is on RCA and XLR outputs. For AVRs it will be at the RCA sub outs.

Now there is a lot of domestic resistance to "boxy" subs. Having your elegant speakers not be able to reproduce AV content properly is a big miss on your part in my view.

In Europe AV is not so big. In the US it is big. So I

AV is big in Europe as well.

I don't think this is accurate. If a subwoofer isn't connected, an AVR will route lfe to the mains.

That is not true. If there is no sub, the LFE channel is lost. If that were not so there would be a lot of damaged speakers as the LFE is booted 10 db. Also smaller speakers can not be crossed over.

People may not go for Atmos, but 3.1. 5.1 and 7.1 systems are common. It is very unusual for center channels not to be crossed. I would say at least a center channel is common to center the dialog and help voice discrimination.

So, my advice stands, as not being able to connect to the sub out will lose you sales.

I don't see the issue, as it is such an simple undertaking. I realized this issue in the design of my system twenty years ago. It would be a shadow of what it is without that included in the design. It was not an afterthought and should not have been for you either. Sorry to come down hard about this, but for your excellent design this is a MUST redo.

 

[Bobby Bass]

I am available to answer questions if anyone has any.

And for those who happen to be local to Norway or Scandinavia, the Sarannas will premiere at the Oslo HiFi Show this weekend.

Look like beautiful and great sounding speakers. Unfortunately they out of my price range. My question and suggestion is Do you plan on including in an upcoming Audioholic’s raffle? Gene can you work your magic?

 

[shadyJ]

Look like beautiful and great sounding speakers. Unfortunately they out of my price range. My question and suggestion is Do you plan on including in an upcoming Audioholic’s raffle? Gene can you work your magic?

I wouldn't think a small manufacturer would give away such an expensive loudspeaker so easaily, so don't think you will be seeing them in a raffle. They would be a totally awesome prize to win though!

 

[Sigberg Audio]

That is not true. If there is no sub, the LFE channel is lost. If that were not so there would be a lot of damaged speakers as the LFE is booted 10 db. Also smaller speakers can not be crossed over.

People may not go for Atmos, but 3.1. 5.1 and 7.1 systems are common. It is very unusual for center channels not to be crossed. I would say at least a center channel is common to center the dialog and help voice discrimination.

So, my advice stands, as not being able to connect to the sub out will lose you sales.

I don't see the issue, as it is such an simple undertaking. I realized this issue in the design of my system twenty years ago. It would be a shadow of what it is without that included in the design. It was not an afterthought and should not have been for you either. Sorry to come down hard about this, but for your excellent design this is a MUST redo.

As I unfortunately do not have the time right now to go read a lot of AVR manuals, I took the liberty of asking ChatGPT to do it for me on a random Denon and Yamaha model.

Denon (e.g., X-Series models)

• Speaker Configuration Page: When you set “Subwoofer” to “No” (or “None”), the AVR automatically reroutes the LFE channel to the front left/right speakers.
• Low-Frequency Effects: The manual generally states that if you do not have a subwoofer, or you set your main speakers to “Large” with subwoofer off, the low frequencies (including the .1 LFE track) will be directed to the fronts.
• Bass Management: In most Denon models, you can confirm this by checking the “Bass” or “Speaker Setup” menu. There is typically a note that says something to the effect of: “When no subwoofer is present, low-frequency signals are sent to the front channels.”

Yamaha (e.g., AVENTAGE Series)

• Speaker Setup / Configuration: When “Subwoofer” is set to “None,” Yamaha’s documentation similarly mentions that the LFE channel and other bass signals are redirected to the front speakers.
• Notes in Manual: Yamaha often has a statement like, “If ‘Subwoofer’ is set to ‘None,’ LFE signals will be mixed into the front channels.”

I don't know if @shadyJ happens to already know this and are able to confirm that LFE is not actually lost, but typicallye rerouted to the mains if you have sub set to "No" or "None" in the AVR setup?

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Look like beautiful and great sounding speakers. Unfortunately they out of my price range. My question and suggestion is Do you plan on including in an upcoming Audioholic’s raffle? Gene can you work your magic?

That is probably not likely, but as mentioned earlier we're considering to sell the review pair at a discount, probably something like 30% discount for what is essentially a brand new pair beyond having been part of the review.

 

[Steve81]

I don't know if @shadyJ happens to already know this and are able to confirm that LFE is not actually lost, but typicallye rerouted to the mains if you have sub set to "No" or "None" in the AVR setup?

LFE can certainly be rerouted by some AVRs to speakers configured as large. Still mostly irrelevant in a “purist” 2-ch rig IMHO. The expectation for the LFE was to have a dedicated channel for bass effects, with extra headroom to account for the fact there were 5+ additional channels of audio, and the LFE was expected to keep up with that.

Realistically, the stereo mixes are pretty well done as is, with full range effects that rival a dedicated LFE channel. There aren’t a lot of people that had dramatically more subwoofage than I did at my peak, and I can certainly live with the stereo mixes.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I checked a current Denon now, it supports both redistributing LFE to the mains and also adjusting the level.

 

[lovinthehd]

I checked a current Denon now, it supports both redistributing LFE to the mains and also adjusting the level.

View attachment 72881

I have three older Denon avrs (X4700, 4520, 3808) that cannot put LFE into L/R speakers. Seeing this post now I double checked my manuals, no mention of such an ability but I've always used subs myself.

I seem to remember in a discussion of one of the newer models than mine (one of the "x800" series I believe) that @gene mentioned he'd been on to Sound United for such a feature for LFE being able to go to mains, think he confirmed they had implemented it on recent models.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Either way, I thank @TLS Guy for the input, but this will not be implemented.

Some potential setups:

• Older AVR with no subs: May be a problem but you can still choose a 2 channel downmix from the source
• Pure 2-channel (no AVR): Problem not relevant
• Newer AVR with no subs: Problem not relevant
• Any AVR with subs: Problem not relevant

I suspect customers purchasing 23,000USD main speakers to have in a combined system with no subwoofers where they use it for both music and movies and at the same time has an older AVR a very small part of the audience. If you want a minimal setup you likely won't have an AVR at all. Personally I use 2 channel downmix from an Apple TV connected digitally to a DAC with volume control, connected via XLR to the speakers, and that's the entire setup. Two small boxes hidden away + the speakers. Works like a charm for both TV-series and movies.