My thoughts on the Ascend 340SEs

j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
This weekend I got a chance to listen to the new SE versions of the Ascend Acoustics 340s and 170s as well as the VTF-3 MkII. I had previously heard the original 170s a few years ago and was pretty impressed with them and I owned a VTF-2, so I was very curious to hear the new SE versions and the VTF-3. Three of us spent about 4 hrs listening to these guys, almost exclusively with music.

Build quality is very good as expected, and they are quite attractive, especially the 340s on their matching stands. The VTF-3 was actually smaller than I expected. In profile (depth and height), it is about the size of the PB-12, but it seems much narrower in width. The Ascends are very attractive, I can’t see how people would criticize these speakers as looking plain.

I’ll start with the VTF-3, since it is easy not much to say because it is a solid sub. It did well with everything we threw at it. It captured all but the very lowest of rumble on the Master and Commander cannon scene, though that may only have been because it was configured for max output rather than extension. Brian mentioned he could hear some port noise in max extension, so he configured it this way. It added just the right amount of support during music (80Hz x-over), keeping up with the Ascends in control and capability and blending very well. It doesn’t call attention to itself, it just does what it needs to – that has a lot to do with Brian calibrating it pretty much right on the nose so it integrated well with the system. No surprises here, this sub is excellent and should do well even in larger rooms.

Next the 340s: They sounded a little different from the classic 170s I remember, but not in a bad way. They seem a bit more forward than the 170s, a little more aggressive than them in the midrange (which I guess is to be expected). When I previously heard the 170s, it was on some very nice gear (I don’t remember models, but it was most or all Musical Fidelity, same guy I bought my VTF-2 from) and I thought they had a bit smoother/softer midrange; that was a few years ago too though. These guys extract a ton of detail – the tweeter is very nice – very crisp without any glare or ringing even on one particular passage that I use to evaluate highs (Patricia Barber Café Blue SACD - Nardis). It is a complex burst of high hat and percussion that can tax a speaker. They also did well with Diana Krall Live in Paris dts DVD – piano sounded natural, stand up bass was tight and acoustic guitar was plucky. The 340s render female vocals well, and seemed to do really go well with acoustic guitar. Beck's Sea Change DVD-A sounded great, as did DSoTM SACD and various Porcupine Tree tracks. The more detailed the recordings seemed to really shine with these speakers. The 170s were surrounds and were mounted, so I can’t really offer direct comments, but they sounded similar and blended perfectly sonically. SPL wasn't an issue either, I'd expect these guys will be able to fill sufficiently large rooms well.

I have no real complaints about these guys, but the only things I noticed that I would say were not strong points would be that their soundstage depth is not as good as some other (more expensive) speakers - not really a negative, just an observation. Their imaging is relatively narrow (my speakers are quite similar in that regard), and the fact that they are nearly too accurate sounding – almost a bit sterile. They don’t have ultra fine refinement that gives them a total 3 dimensional depth and a huge soundstage, but these are sort of minor, nit-picking points IMO, and certainly not what I would call weaknesses in the price class. IMO Brian was right, you’d have to step up quite a bit in price to really do a lot better than these guys, seriously. Hats off to the guys at Ascend for putting out speakers at this price with this level of performance. Do I recommend these speakers? Yes. Would I be pleased if I built a system based on these guys? Yes.

Most of all, thanks to Brian for the great hospitality and use of his time, gear and home for the auditioning.
 
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cyberbri

Banned
Nice comments, John.

Just for a reference point, here's my other equipment and other specs:

Room is 14.5 feet wide by 18.5 feet deep, 8'7" ceilings (concrete or solid wood floors, carpetted). At the back of the room is a 7" step up and another 4 feet or so of space, with part of the area taken up by the front entrance. I think I calculated it's approximately 2600fx3. There's also a doorway-size opening at the rear room to the dining room.

HK AVR330 receiver
Denon 2910 player (arrived in mail 1 day prior)
2 sets of thick Phillips component cables for 6-channel connection, old Phoenix Gold analog stereo cables for CD input, AR coax cable for digital connection
VTF-3 is calibrated w/in 1dB or so of the speakers using Avia (not running hot) so it was balanced with teh speakers for the listening session. Although I think I'll try turning it up a few notches and see how it sounds -- I've measured a peak of 107dB at the LP in my room, maybe there was one at 110 -- but according to the max SPL chart here taken outside, it should be capable of a little more in-room -- here's the 20Hz Max Extension mode results.


About the sound, I think the sound changed dramatically when I moved the speakers (and couch) and changed the toe-in angle after you guys left. It's hard to describe, but with the vocals locked so much stronger in the center, they seemed to come forward more in the room too. There was some cool depth going on with the drummer in a Bad Plus song ("Flim"). Maybe when I head to your place to check out your setup, you can go over what I should be listening for (depth, etc.)
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
A side note - the 330 performed quite well, even handling the A/V-2s quite well, just another reason to like them. My previous room was about the same size as yours and my Marantz 6200 was fine, but my current room is a fair amount larger, so I had to add a little more muscle :)

Just let me know when you have some free time and we'll get together.

Your room seems pretty good, so I think with just some tweaking we can get it sounding amazing. We'll leave that for another day...:)
 
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Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
Great write up John...not anything I can add as the 3rd leg of this triangle. I got a chance to hear the much praised Ascends. A very nice setup and Brian really does have his calibration nutted. I think I may have put a db or 3 on the sub, but's that's pure personal choice. It was still great as it was.

Now if Bri will only bring them over so I can hear them in MY room :D .
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I think the sub could use a dB or two more too, but Ron is just a bass head now that he has the Plus :D I thought the sub was at the right calibration point, but it is a personal preference; I run my sub about 1dB hot too so that I still get some oomph without cranking the system.
 
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cyberbri

Banned
Well, the frequency response isn't completely flat, and with Slow response I might get fluctuating values in a certain 1-3dB range. The bass level is a bit different for each of the 5 channels too, so I tried to average the left and right channels. It could be 2-3dB hot or cold depending on the frequency, but with the meter averaging it out right now, it's about even to 1-2dB hot with the left/right mains.

I could run the center channel at 100Hz instead of 80Hz - it gives a flatter response that way. But with male voices in video, I was getting some chesty sound from the sub that went away by lowering it back to 80Hz.

But I've attached a graph at 1/6 octave of 0 and 180 degree phase settings on the sub, with the sub in a slightly different position than it resides now. But it's tones from 160Hz to 16Hz, 1/6 octave, running through the mains and the sub.
 

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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
Did you pull the 340s forward of the entertainment center? That would do wonders for the soundstage/imaging. I learn this the hard way when my set went to the shop and was no longer between my 340s.

Did you do any comparisons with the AV-2s?
 
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cyberbri

Banned
Only about the back 25% or so was behind the front edge of the cabinets, and they were off to the sides. They are now in front and closer to the center more, and not toed in as severely. I'm still experimenting, though.
 
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marky

Junior Audioholic
Using a beefier amp may open up the sound stage. Im using a yamaha rxv2400 for my 340s and I think it can use a amp or two. I know that HK are more conservative in rating their power, but I think the Ascends need the higher model like 635 or better yet the 7300 for the sound to open up.
 
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silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
Yeah, speakers should not be behind any surface to minimize reflections and baffle effects. Judging by the one picture in your gallery that shows the entire setup, you most likely had a 1st reflection right off the cabinet/TV. The toe-in in that picture made it worse.

Even after setting things up properly with the cabinet and TV, if you ever get the chance to hear your setup without them, you will be amazed.

After re-positioning the speaker, you will have to re-calibrate and EQ everything again! PITA!
 
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cyberbri

Banned
Thanks for the advice. I know about re-calibrating stuff, believe me. ;) I guess I get sort of a sadistic pleasure out of it. Maybe it's just my personality. :D
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks a bunch there John. Very informative and you have answered some questions that I have been hoping to get answered. Feel free at anytime to add even more.:) :)
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
marky said:
Using a beefier amp may open up the sound stage. Im using a yamaha rxv2400 for my 340s and I think it can use a amp or two. I know that HK are more conservative in rating their power, but I think the Ascends need the higher model like 635 or better yet the 7300 for the sound to open up.
I had considered the possibility that they were not as open as they could have been due to power, but we got very resepctable levels out of them and at no time did they sound congested or strained. I can't say for sure, though I do suspect more power would benefit them; the speakers sound like they can take a ton of power (I think these are the same or similar tweeters to the Joseph Audios I love). I'd be curious how they'd sound with my PM7200...
 
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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
I'm a believer in that with the Ascends lack of color and revealing nature you'd get a better return on your money improving your front end than moving up in speakers until you can jump up significatly in price. I know I'm not the only Ascend owner running a front end that costs multiples of the speakers.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Tex, so in terms of front end, would you say more amplification or a superior source? As far as sources go, the 2910 seems pretty good; clearly not an ultra-high end player, but very good for the price range. I was always pleased with the sound from my 2200, and now the 2900 (would be even better if it had good BM).
 
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cyberbri

Banned
About the only equipment upgrade I can see happening, in the near future anyway, is maybe an outboard amp for the mains (I listen to a lot of music as well).

But I've been experimenting with placement for my mains a lot, and I will be getting some room treatments (bass traps and 1st reflection point panels) soon. Room treatments should give me more of an improvement in sound than any equipment upgrade I could possibly afford or stretch to get.


For placement, I experimented with moving the couch forward/back, and the speakers with placement, distance from the walls, toe-in, etc.

Right now I have the speakers about 15-18" in front of the side shelvings flanking the TV stand, toed in pretty drastically. They are aimed at a spot about 2' give or take in front of the LP. This gives me a very tight center image for vocals, and moving to either side of the couch still has a fairly centered image - since the speaker on the opposite side is facing you, and the speaker on the closer side is aimed inwards more - without having a complete crumbling of the imaging, with mainly sound coming from the speaker closest to you. I can get a strong center vocal image with less severe toe-in, but then the image crumbles completely if you move to the side more than 8" or so to either side.

I think they are about 8' and change away from the center LP, and about 7-8' apart. It sounds great for music. I'm still evaluating it every chance I get, but I think it sounds pretty good so far. I may have to re-position them once I get my room treatments, too.
 
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cyberbri

Banned
I spent some more time tweaking my speakers' positions last night.

With different positions for the speakers, the interaction with the sub also has changed dramatically. I re-ran 1/6 octave tests in phase 0/180, and came up with what is in the attached image.


Phase 0 seems to be flatter, have less variation (and easier to calibrate), so I've gone with that for the time being. I'll see if I keep my speakers in the same spots, but I plan on getting room treatments pretty soon, so that will drastically change the sound too.
 

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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
j_garcia said:
Tex, so in terms of front end, would you say more amplification or a superior source? As far as sources go, the 2910 seems pretty good; clearly not an ultra-high end player, but very good for the price range. I was always pleased with the sound from my 2200, and now the 2900 (would be even better if it had good BM).
The 2910 is a very nice source but I'd give equal weight to the amp. I wasn't a very big believer in differences in amps and sources until I heard the same speakers on different amps and CDPs.
 

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