My shoot-out. Salk Songtower and Aperion Verus Grand

[rdalcanto]

I've had the Aperions for close to a month. Members on the forum said I would be wise to also demo the SongTowers, so I ordered those as well and received them yesterday. The Aperions allow for Bi-Amp, which I had been doing. I went back to running them off one set of wires so I could have the Salks on "A" and the Aperions on "B", for quick back and forth comparisons (Technics SA-DA10 AV Receiver - 100W/channel). Both speakers are highly reviewed under the professional product reviews on this website, and have very good linear responses across the frequency range. The Salks have not yet had break-in time, but the paper work from Salk said to pop in their demo CD and start listening critically right away. I will have them on all day today, and will compare again tonight. The Salks have no grill, as that is recommended for critical listening by Salk. The Aperions have the grill, as the manufacturer says they are voiced with the grill on. At first, I had the Salks on as I watched my recording of "American Ninja Warrior" from the night before. With mainly commentator voices to listen too, I noticed something that I later noticed as we went back and forth on the speakers with the demo music CD. The Salks are very pure, but sound thinner (less bass?) and don't fill the room with the same width. The Aperions sound a little dirtier (you get the feeling that you can hear a little more static from the recording), but seem to have more bass, sound more rounded, and fill the room better (advantage of having two 5 inch and two 6 inch drivers?). I tried to get my son to not tell me which speakers he was turning on as he went back and forth, but after a few minutes, we could all identify which speakers were on easily. They both sound good, but different. My wife absolutely likes the Aperions better. My son and I are torn, as we appreciate what seems like a cleaner, less distorted purity of the Salks, but miss the fullness the Aperions seem to bring to the table, and which might be better for my home theater application. I have a large, 18inch Tekton Designs Cinema subwoofer on for both, with crossover at 60Hz. Both speakers look amazing. The Salks look boxier, but have a very nice finish. The wife again prefers the look of the Aperions.

I will post more as I give them all a little more time.

 

[rdalcanto]

Just to add to what I said above -
I apologize for not having the proper vocabulary to describe what I'm hearing. When I am standing just 1-2 feet from the speaker (which I know is close), the Aperion sounds "cheaper" in that you can hear what I would describe as slight static from the recording, or unpleasant distortion? Again, I don't know if that is the right word. But because of the added fullness, my wife thinks it sounds like the more expensive speaker. To her, the Salk's sound "cheaper" because they don't have the depth or width in the sound. I think the Aperions sound "cheaper" because of the slight unpleasant distortion feeling you get when you are close to the drivers. More to follow. Comments welcome.

 

[Steve81]

Hi there,

Looks like you've got some very nice speakers to choose between! I do have one offhand comment that may (or may not) be useful: the Aperions are rated to be 4dB more sensitive than the Salks (92dB vs 88dB), which is a fair gap. That can make the Aperions more susceptible to noise from upstream components; at the same time, if you're not level matching, they'll be louder which can come off as a bigger, more authoritative sound.

 

[j_garcia]

Absolutely have to level match to get a proper comparison between the two. I have the same thing between my speakers which are a bigger gap - 91dB vs 86dB and the difference in level is very audible, and 4dB will be as well.

Good luck and I don't really think you'll end up on the losing end with either of those

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 18" sub is on for both speakers in 2.1 mode, but the Salk seem to have less bass?

 

[zieglj01]

Level match - take your time - also sit back, and listen from proper distance to make final decisions.

However like you, I prefer the sound to be as pure and clean as possible when listening to speakers.
The midrange is a critical part - and I want less distortion - the sub can handle the lower bass.

Enjoy the adventure.

 

[rdalcanto]

The 18" sub is on for both speakers in 2.1 mode, but the Salk seem to have less bass?

Yes. It is hard to explain. I think the feeling of less bass is in the range above 60Hz. I don't know how to describe it, other than to say they seem less "full".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes. It is hard to explain. I think the feeling of less bass is in the range above 60Hz. I don't know how to describe it, other than to say they seem less "full".

Perhaps try changing the XO to 120Hz and compare again. My guess is that it won't matter, but you never know.

It may be due to non-level-matching or just due to subjective preference.

I must have that large-as-life full 3-dimensional and dynamic sound in addition to ultra crystal clear pure midrange and treble.

What music?

But "less full" and "thin sound" and "small soundstage" mean not enough of great bass to me.

Using any sub EQ (like Audyssey Dynamic EQ)?

 

[rdalcanto]

I was surprised that sound levels actually seemed to match up pretty well. After the suggestion here, I downloaded Sound Meter ver 1.5.8 by Smart Tools for Android on my Note 2. I just went back and forth and both speakers were a match at 71 dB on the music I was just listening to, so they must be pretty close.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was surprised that sound levels actually seemed to match up pretty well. After the suggestion here, I downloaded Sound Meter ver 1.5.8 by Smart Tools for Android on my Note 2. I just went back and forth and both speakers were a match at 71 dB on the music I was just listening to, so they must be pretty close.

That's good. But just increase the volume of the AVR by 3dB when you listen to the Salk and see if the Salk still sound thin, small, or less full. Also try 120Hz XO and Audyssey DEQ if available.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I was surprised that sound levels actually seemed to match up pretty well. After the suggestion here, I downloaded Sound Meter ver 1.5.8 by Smart Tools for Android on my Note 2. I just went back and forth and both speakers were a match at 71 dB on the music I was just listening to, so they must be pretty close.

Try to get a cheap radioshack spl meter. Measuring audio levels with microphone on the Note2 might be far from accurate

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I recommend removing as many moving gears as possible to get down to just the speakers. To that end, I'd remove the subwoofer from the equation and run them full range.

Also, make sure you are comparing them on good quality recordings. Jim's demo CD is a good place to start.

I'd also recommend experimenting with placement. (Edit: I see you have the Salks on the inside. To be fair you should at least reverse this and do some more impressions. I find a bigger, broader soundstage with a wider placement.)

Every sound level measuring app I've found for my phone has been far from accurate. Highly recommend getting yourself a meter.

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts! Enjoy!

 

[zieglj01]

I'd also recommend experimenting with placement. (Edit: I see you have the Salks on the inside. To be fair you should at least reverse this and do some more impressions. I find a bigger, broader soundstage with a wider placement.)

Yes, also try the Salk speakers on the outside.

 

[Swerd]

… With mainly commentator voices to listen too, I noticed something that I later noticed as we went back and forth on the speakers with the demo music CD. The Salks are very pure, but sound thinner (less bass?) and don't fill the room with the same width. The Aperions sound a little dirtier (you get the feeling that you can hear a little more static from the recording), but seem to have more bass, sound more rounded, and fill the room better (advantage of having two 5 inch and two 6 inch drivers?).

I don't think the SongTowers lack bass depth. They can go below 40 Hz. But it is noticeable, compared to many other speakers in its price range, that they never add bass when it isn't in the recording.

From what you described, I think you have already noticed one of the better traits (in my opinion) of the Salks – a lack of what I call "mid-bass and mid-range muddiness". I experienced the same thing when my SongTowers were new. My previous speakers had ported bass woofers with somewhat exaggerated bass tuning in the 70-100 Hz region. This type of exaggerated bass (also called High Q cabinet tuning) does create the effect of more overall bass, especially in most rock music. But it also tends to "muddy up the midrange" by producing bass fullness when the music doesn't have it in the recording. This is also spoken of as "bass ringing" where a single bass note keeps ringing on and on, like a bell. Without this muddiness, you will hear mid range details in recordings you are familiar with that you had never noticed before.

What happens when you hear a deep male announcer voice? Does the speaker add any extra depth to the voice? Imagine how your own voice might sound if you talk while your head is inside a large trash can.

At first, my reaction was similar to yours, but I was used to hearing that "muddy" sound. After I had my SongTowers for some time and had gotten used to their clarity, I compared them to my old speakers (as well as some others, B&W and Paradigm), the difference in muddiness vs. clarity stood out. I haven't heard those Aperions, so I don't know how much they do that, but from what you described, I think that may be the difference.

Another subtle difference you may notice is that two SongTowers, in stereo, create a vivid and detailed image of musicians in your room. I find that music with one or several voices or unamplified musical instruments, such as guitar or piano, makes this easier to notice than amplified instruments or a full orchestra playing at full tilt. This stereo image, in my room, is rather wide. How do the SongTowers and the Aperions compare with "image creation"? Listen to them while sitting in the center, about 7-10 feet away from the speakers, and while walking about the room. How does the sound change when you are away from the center sweet spot?

As you might guess, I am a big SongTower fan. I've had mine since 2007 and have never regretted getting them . Their clarity is addictive.

See the link in my signature line below to read what I thought of them when they were new.

 

[Ricardojoa]

I would suggest to compare them with the sub out and audyssey disable. Also try different placement for both.

Integrating the sub with two pair of differnt speaker wil most likely require different settings. Simply using the same setting are likely to result in one setting being more ideal then the other, or they both arent integrated right. So taking the sub out is best option to evaluate the speakers. The goes with the audyssey. Feed the speaker with pure signal.

 

[rdalcanto]

Thanks for the great replies. If anyone on the forum lives in Salt Lake City and wants to come over and help, I would love it. PM me. Thanks.

 

[rdalcanto]

WOW!!! WOW!!!! WOW!!!! WHAT A TRANSFORMATION!!!!!
I ran the Salks for 12 straight hours today, and then listened again tonight. It is magical the way they have opened up! The sound is as full as the Aperions now, and the clarity is still amazing. My son said it is a no brainer now. The compromise that appeared to be there last night when they were out of the box is completely gone now. I was listening to something with a lot of bass earlier, and I could not believe how much the lower 5 inch driver was moving in and out. I think that little guy needed a little time to loosen up. The bass has really improved. I will give them a couple more days, but I think we have a winner!

As a side note though, I want to give Aperion major props. I called to see if they would give me an extension on the 30 day trail, and they graciously increased it to 45 days immediately. They seem like a first rate company.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

WOW!!! WOW!!!! WOW!!!! WHAT A TRANSFORMATION!!!!!
I ran the Salks for 12 straight hours today, and then listened again tonight. It is magical the way they have opened up! The sound is as full as the Aperions now, and the clarity is still amazing. My son said it is a no brainer now. The compromise that appeared to be there last night when they were out of the box is completely gone now. I was listening to something with a lot of bass earlier, and I could not believe how much the lower 5 inch driver was moving in and out. I think that little guy needed a little time to loosen up. The bass has really improved. I will give them a couple more days, but I think we have a winner!

As a side note though, I want to give Aperion major props. I called to see if they would give me an extension on the 30 day trail, and they graciously increased it to 45 days immediately. They seem like a first rate company.

Maybe your ears and brain are just getting used to the new speakers interacting with your room and auditory senses. Psycho-acoustic break-in.

A lot of encouragement and reinforcement from the forum regarding the Salk didn't hurt.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Maybe your ears and brain are just getting used to the new speakers interacting with your room and auditory senses. Psycho-acoustic break-in.

A lot of encouragement and reinforcement from the forum regarding the Salk didn't hurt.

I think speaker break in is one of those hotly-debated topics. As ADTG rightly pointed out, it can take your brain some time to break-in to a new sound. At first listen "Oh wow, speaker X sounds really really dry." But after some more listening..."Actually, it's not dry, but I'm hearing less mud and more detail." And so forth. My suggestion would be to really give it some time, get the sub out of there and disable Audyssey as well.

I own Salks and I love them, but I bet I'd like the Aperions in their own way as well. All speakers are compromises, so the key is to find the design with the compromises that fit best with your tastes and budget.

 

[Ponzio]

Psycho-acoustic break-in.

I needed a good laugh this morning.