My Room Acoustics - are they "good" ?

[mibson]

I am buying a new stereo for my new house, likely Paradigm reference speakers. Still researching amps etc...

My stereo will be in the loft. It is about 22 ft x 30 ft. The ceiling is vaulted (cathedraled) from about 5 feet at the sides to about 12 feet in the center. It has cedar wood walls and the ceiling is cedar also. The ground is old almost shag carpet that will perhaps be replaced. Being a loft the 22ft side has a railing that looks down on the living room that is about 30ft x 17 ft and vaulted up about 25 ft. It has hardwood, cedar walls and ceiling. Both rooms have 3 large wood support beams that run across the ceilings that are 4 inches by 1.5 feet.

Is this a "good" or "bad" room acoustics?

Im willing to make acoustic adjustments if anyone has suggestions.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers

 

[Miltcharlie]

A good way to get the feel of your room is to do a clap test or a finger snap test and listen for echo/reverb.
What I did was walk around my room with a bic lighter. While flicking the flat part (not the ball) of the lighter, listen for echo/reverb.

Echo/reverb is bad.
A good room should be void of echo/reverb.
After the test if you need treatment. Then happy hunting for information. I suggest doing key word searches and finding as much info as you can.

Here's a start: http://www.auralex.com/
You don't have to buy from them but, they do have good info.

 

[mibson]

More questions regarding room acoustics

My "stereo room" or loft is unusual in that it has wood walls AND ceiling. And no drywall.

How does wood compare for acoustics and echoes to drywall and/or stucco on the ceiling?

 

[jostenmeat]

My "stereo room" or loft is unusual in that it has wood walls AND ceiling. And no drywall.

How does wood compare for acoustics and echoes to drywall and/or stucco on the ceiling?

All of those things are reflective, but it doesn't mean it can't sound good in there. In the same line of thinking as with the previous response, bang pots and pans, shout, sing (if you can), play music in there, bring in speakers, etcetera.

You can go a long ways with good experimentation of speaker placement and listener placement. Give yourself plenty of space from the back wall.

For the typical monopole speakers, try starting with an equilateral triangle formed between you and the speakers.

Make sure that the speakers themselves have some decent space away from the front wall. At least in my limited experiences, the more the better, and I'm talking several feet.

One of the issues is the asymmetry of having only one side wall. It's probable that the reflected energy from that side will make the soundstage, so to speak, seem heavier over there.

Now, an issue with putting up treatments is that using screws/bolts/nails would leave holes that can't be "patched up" with wood (at least not as easily as with drywall). Maybe you know something about that stuff.

You can go with panels placed on stands. Acoustical companies sell them. Or you can make your own somehow.

 

[mibson]

The more the better?

If more space between the speakers and the back wall is a good thing..

Then doesnt it make sense to put the speakers' backs, towards my loft railing?

This will make about 17 feet of open space behind them, is this too MUCH space?

Note: (front firing bass port on mains)

 

[jostenmeat]

THAT might very well be too much space. I just want to reiterate that what I said comes directly from personal experiences, which are very limited. OTOH, pretty much everyone will tell you to get off the back wall.

For example, if the listener is against the back wall, treating this wall is always recommended by the experts from what I've seen, no matter which company rep is speaking. OTOH, when the listener is not against the back wall, it's not nearly as commonly stated that treating the front wall is absolutely necessary from what I've read (as it is with treating the back wall with you against it). However, again, these are just my impressions.

 

[just-some-guy]

it also depends on how loud you like to play them.

 

[mibson]

Loud? Yes

I broke the budget buying speakers that will play loud and sound good. I will want to play it quite loud at times.

I have PSB Platinum T8 comming next week.

Ill be using the Emotiva UPA-2, I will probably upgrade this amp in the future if more power is needed.

 

[mibson]

How do I hook up my preamp and power amp?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to use the Arcam Zeta 2 as a preamp and then use a 2ch power amp(UPA-2) to run a two channel stereo system. Is this possible with the Zeta 2? (limited cash and the arcam is free)

I have speakers and a 2ch poweramp in a few days.

To do this Im guessing I would:
1)hook my cd player to the AUX input on the arcam,
2)hook the "main front decoder ouputs" on the arcam to the inputs on the power amp (emotiva),
3)hook up the speakers?

Am I on the right track?

Not sure if I should have started a new thread or not, since the topic is changing...

 

[jostenmeat]

I have PSB Platinum T8 comming next week.

Oh, it's you. Why have you never responded to the PM I sent?

I want to use the Arcam Zeta 2 as a preamp and then use a 2ch power amp(UPA-2) to run a two channel stereo system. Is this possible with the Zeta 2? (limited cash and the arcam is free)

I have speakers and a 2ch poweramp in a few days.

To do this Im guessing I would:
1)hook my cd player to the AUX input on the arcam,
2)hook the "main front decoder ouputs" on the arcam to the inputs on the power amp (emotiva),
3)hook up the speakers?

I googled, and I believe it is actually spelled Xeta 2. Not too much info after minimal browsing, I even found a pic of the back but it's small and low rez I think. Can you post a pic for us, or find us a link for a manual? Help us help you.

And respond to my PM, dammit!

 

[mibson]

"Xetz 2"

Yes my mistake "Xetz 2".

 

[mibson]

Here is a pics of the back of my Xeta 2

Thanks for any help!

Here is a pic, to me it makes sense that Id use the decoder "outputs" for the main fronts (LR) at attach these to the inputs on the 2ch preamp Ill be using...

but Im just guessing and I cant find a manual for this amp...

Thanks for any help.

 

[mibson]

Thanks for any help!View attachment 7870

Here is a pic, to me it makes sense that Id use the decoder "outputs" for the main fronts (LR) at attach these to the inputs on the 2ch preamp Ill be using...

but Im just guessing and I cant find a manual for this amp...

Thanks for any help.

Sorry, I should have said:

"Here is a pic, to me it makes sense that Id use the decoder "outputs" for the main fronts (LR) and attach these to the inputs on the 2ch power amp (Emotiva) Ill be using...""

 

[mperfct]

My theater has a lot of treatment on the front wall (it's pretty much entirely covered) but I have nothing on the side walls/ceiling. The room is "live" and has a noticeable echo. That all being said, I don't have any problems watching movies and the imaging is great. I've even put up panels of rockwool on the sides and haven't noticed any gain by doing so. This is all very room specific, so take it for what it's worth.

If I remember right, Auralex will do a free consultation for your room and give you an idea of what kind of treatments you would benefit from. If you are truly concerned, they have a more in-depth analysis or even better, you could hire an HAA consultant to come in and take measurements and show you where your true weak areas are. They may even be able to do a simulation of what x amount of treatments can do for your room. It may cost some money up front, but it guarantees whatever you spend down the road will be well worth it.

 

[jostenmeat]

Sorry, I should have said:

"Here is a pic, to me it makes sense that Id use the decoder "outputs" for the main fronts (LR) and attach these to the inputs on the 2ch power amp (Emotiva) Ill be using...""

I suppose it would be either those . . . or maybe the "AUX" right next to them? I really don't just how old this thing is, but I really really advise finding a manual somehow. Or at least finding other OWNERS who can help you. Or at the very least, experiment and look around all of the menus.

My guess, based on very limited time in this hobby, would be that the processor can apply some sort of old skool matrixing algorithm to a 2ch source . . . and what you might want to avoid, depending how the matrixing is done, is having only the "stereo part" of the "five channel output".

IOW, I just want you to be sure you are getting the true 2.0 stereo in full. There are probably extremely high chances you will be already, but that's just the paranoid side of me. Good luck.

Or maybe instead they are just pass thru for SACD/DVDA. Yeah. Just something like "decoder" makes me wonder.

Oh thanks for the PM btw.

Those speakers, from what I remember, are capable of a lot of bass output. For a lot of things they did very well, from my memory, I also perceived peaking-bloated bass issues, but I have no idea if it was room or speaker. It was a very large room, but untreated.

Like I've probably already told you, sing in there, play some speakers in there, shout, etc, and you will already have an idea about the character of the room.

Remember, just keep experimenting with speaker positioning, and listener positioning. You ask us questions, but this is what all of us would do anyways.

 

[mibson]

Thanks!

I am concerned about these "decoder outputs" and getting true 2.0 stereo...

I should also explain this the above picture does NOT show the speaker connections for the center channel and rear surrounds. So my understanding is that this amp was intended to be a preamp for the mains, and an amp for the center and surrounds - it is really perfect for me if I can get true stereo...

I have tried to get the manual from my brother but that will happen after I get my speakers...

The amp is about 10 years old and has dolby prologic, and stereo modes , I dont mind because I really just want to use it as a stereo preamp for my power amp.

Anyone else who can help?

 

[mibson]

Room Acoustic Measurments

I managed to find an Arcam manual, I pretty sure I can use it as a 2ch preamp...

Regarding Room Acoustics:

Ive been reading about how to do the various calculations in a rectangular room, however my room would approximate a rectangle 21 feet wide by 35 feet long, however the ceiling is cathedraled symmetrically from 6feet high at the sides to 12 feet high in the center...

Are there any calculators for this shape of room? And to complicate things, my walls are beveled wood panels, so they are not even flat…

(I think I could pull out my old math books and figure this out but it would likely take me a very very long time)

I think Ill get a computer program and the required hardware (mic, etc) and learn to do these measurements myself - all seems very interesting.

Any good links or websites on how to do this? and what hardware to use? (I have read allot online, but just want a few second opinions)