My quest for stereo loudspeakers under $3,000

[English210]

I have listened to a full setup of what I believe was T4 towers and found them only to be listenable if I put tape over the tweeters. Never have been a fan of Titanium tweeters.

Try the Imagine Series at least. The T2's are awesome, and a nice footprint too. The Synchrony 1's add to what the Imagine T2's offer, but at a $2K premium that may or may not be worth it. Significant step up over the Image Series. I have a snsitivity to harsh highs, and the Imagine T2 and Synchrony 1 both seem to be speakers I could listen to all day.

 

[perpetualglass]

Now that the SVS Ultra Towers are on there way back, NHT Fours and Aperion Verus Grands are on their way here. I hope I have better sonic luck with these.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now that the SVS Ultra Towers are on there way back, NHT Fours and Aperion Verus Grands are on their way here. I hope I have better sonic luck with these.

SVS speakers not your preference?

My money is on the NHT Classic Four. Did you know you could actively power the built-in subwoofer in the Classic Four w/ an outboard XO/Amp ?

I recall the NHT (internal sub passive) goes down to about ~ 35Hz, but when actively powered by XO/Amp, they go down to ~ 27Hz.

 

[Goat1]

What didn't you like about the SVS's? If you went the route of the classic 4's and added the amps,I personally don't think its worth it. If you have a sub it would just be a waste of money..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What didn't you like about the SVS's? If you went the route of the classic 4's and added the amps,I personally don't think its worth it. If you have a sub it would just be a waste of money..

I bet most people won't add the amps; they'll just use the Classic Four like any other passive speakers. NHT just gives you the option that most passive speakers DON'T even offer.

But I think Pure Direct or Stereo 2.2 double-bass w/ Active XO/Amp + dual ext subs would be nice.

 

[perpetualglass]

What didn't you like about the SVS's?

SVS speakers not your preference?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/84995-my-quest-stereo-loudspeakers-under-$3-000-a-2.html#post961193

 

[TLS Guy]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/84995-my-quest-stereo-loudspeakers-under-%243-000-a-2.html#post961193

I have followed this thread, and it seems to me you are looking for a nicely balanced speaker with a smooth sound that projects a realistic sound stage. I would be looking for a British speaker with a BBC pedigree. From you description of what you like, I would put Spendor way at the top of your list. I never heard a Spendor speaker I did not like. Contact Bluebird Music for your nearest dealer.

 

[Superman07]

As TLS Guyy mentioned you may like some more neutral speakers. my friend has a pair of KEF R700s and they sound great. The 500s are in your budget an may be worth checking out.

 

[cpp]

I have followed this thread, and it seems to me you are looking for a nicely balanced speaker with a smooth sound that projects a realistic sound stage. I would be looking for a British speaker with a BBC pedigree. From you description of what you like, I would put Spendor way at the top of your list. I never heard a Spendor speaker I did not like. Contact Bluebird Music for your nearest dealer.

Spendor's are one speaker I would like to audition, A3 or A5,

 

[PENG]

I agree with TLSG and others about going for British speakers, given the 3K budget. I wonder if the 804S could fit in that price range too. People on this forum don't seem to favor B&W but I love their sound, to me the available graphs from reviews may not show well but they sound natural and neutral to me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree with TLSG and others about going for British speakers, given the 3K budget. I wonder if the 804S could fit in that price range too. People on this forum don't seem to favor B&W but I love their sound, to me the available graphs from reviews may not show well but they sound natural and neutral to me.

I like B&W.

The setup of the system and quality of recording are crucial.

 

[perpetualglass]

My only problem with B&Ws is their supposed massive power consumption, and even I were able to somehow get the B&Ws w/o sales tax so they could fit in my budget, it would be quite some time before I could afford a capable amp.

On a side note, I just dragged my SVS Ultras Towers down into the entertainment room, and at the levels that I listen, I MUCH prefer the BIC DV64s for television and movies! They are in serious need of EQing a vocal and critical midrange boost. Since most people seem to have an opinion contrary to mine, maybe I just got a bad pair of Ultra Towers...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My only problem with B&Ws is their supposed massive power consumption, and even I were able to somehow get the B&Ws w/o sales tax so they could fit in my budget, it would be quite some time before I could afford a capable amp.

On a side note, I just dragged my SVS Ultras Towers down into the entertainment room, and at the levels that I listen, I MUCH prefer the BIC DV64s for television and movies! They are in serious need of EQing a vocal and critical midrange boost. Since most people seem to have an opinion contrary to mine, maybe I just got a bad pair of Ultra Towers...

I think power requirement and the supposed massive power consumption is way overrated. My 802D2 are the LOUDEST and most SENSITIVE speakers I own. Even when powered by a single-solution Denon 3312, the 802D2 sounded great and LOUD. I've heard people power their 800s with 100WPC AVRs and their B&W sounded great as well.

In contrast, my 4 ohm Phil3 are the least sensitive towers I own. And they also sound great with a simple Denon 3312.

 

[PENG]

I think power requirement and the supposed massive power consumption is way overrated. My 802D2 are the LOUDEST and most SENSITIVE speakers I own. Even when powered by a single-solution Denon 3312, the 802D2 sounded great and LOUD. I've heard people power their 800s with 100WPC AVRs and their B&W sounded great as well.

In contrast, my 4 ohm Phil3 are the least sensitive towers I own. And they also sound great with a simple Denon 3312.

I guess that's why Mr. Murphy does not seem worry much about people using AVRs to drive his speakers. I am surprised by your experience with the 802D2 though as I would not drive them with any AVR. I don't listen at reference level, but if I paid 12K for them, I would want to be able to. If you factor in their sensitivity, assume nominal impedance of 4 ohms, to be able to play them at 85 dB at 3 meter, plus another 20 dB for headroom, no AVR on earth would qualify.

I think the OP will end up with a 300WPC amp soon after he picks up his Ascends. So far the speakers he favored seem to be of the not too sensitive type and if I remember correctly from his other thread, he has a relatively large room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess that's why Mr. Murphy does not seem worry much about people using AVRs to drive his speakers. I am surprised by your experience with the 802D2 though as I would not drive them with any AVR. I don't listen at reference level, but if I paid 12K for them, I would want to be able to. If you factor in their sensitivity, assume nominal impedance of 4 ohms, to be able to play them at 85 dB at 3 meter, plus another 20 dB for headroom, no AVR on earth would qualify.

Let's play w/ numbers.

Let's say the 802D2 is 90dB/w/m (spec 90dB/2.83v/m).
B&W 802 Diamond Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

84dB/3m/1w
87dB/3m/2w
90/4w
93/8w
96/16w
99/32w
102/64w
105dB/3m/128w

THX standard is a MAX VOLUME of 105dB for speakers (85dB + 20dB Headroom) and 115dB for subwoofers.

According to HTM, the Denon 3312 can output 225WPC x 2Ch driven into 4 ohms @ 1% THD and 143WPC x 2Ch into 8 ohms, give or take a few for "accuracy".

Denon AVR-3312CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater


The 4 ohm Phil3 is 85dB/2.83v/m, assume ~ 85dB/w/m:
79dB/3m/1w
82dB/3m/2w
85/4w
88/8w
91/16w
94/32w
97/64w
100dB/128w
103dB/256w
106dB/3m/512w

And yet I can play the Phil3 EXTREMELY LOUD in my 18' x 20' x 12' family room open to formal living room, kitchen, and formal dinning room with only a Denon 3312.

Dennis has played the Phil3 in larger rooms to extreme volume with ~ 100WPC/8 ohm amps.

Other than that, sure, I think most people would power their 802D2 with more than a single AVR. I've heard some people use the Bryston 1,000W monoblocks ($19,000/ 2 amps) to power their $15,000 802D2.

Some people feel that a $5,000 Arcam or $5,500 AudioControl AVR, which measures less power output than the Denon 3312, is suitable for their 802D just because it is a $5K Arcam or $5.5K AudioControl.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/audiocontrol-concert-avr-1-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

http://www.hometheater.com/content/arcam-avr600-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

 

[cpp]

Sometimes its not all about the measurements, its about the sound that is comfortable to you... and I'm not sure I have ever listen to music at 105 freaking db @ 3m have you

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sometimes its not all about the measurements, its about the sound that is comfortable to you... and I'm not sure I have ever listen to music at 105 freaking db @ 3m have you

No. Max for me is about 90dB, average probably 75-80dB.

I sure don't listen to THX standards.

 

[Goat1]

I agree,I don't like listening too loud either,its more distracting than it is clear..

 

[cpp]

No. Max for me is about 90dB, average probably 75-80dB.

I sure don't listen to THX standards.

My ears would most likely implode at those levels. Me 65-80db

 

[PENG]

65 to 75 for me, 3.6 meters from the center speaker for HT, same for 2ch music but only 3.35 meters from speakers. I have almost never seen my amp peaked higher than the 20W mark.