My new Def tech 7002's

[parkgoons]

Hey everyone, after a few weeks of auditioning tower speakers in the 2k-2.5k range i found theres nothing that pleased me more than the Definitive Technology 7002's. The second runner up was the B&W 604's which might have been a little more accurate in the mid range. But when I listened to tears of heaven on the Def Techs I was completely sold on them. Anyways I have a few questions about wiring them. As of right now I have my Yamaha rx-v1600 driving them with the bass management set to large as def tech's manual called for. I also bought 2 splitters (1 male RCA to two female RCAs) and now i have three .1 LFE outputs after connecting the two splitters. One for each 7002 and one for my supercube II. I found the bass to be muddy and not pleasing to my ears when using the LFE into the towers and sub, so i switched back to high level inputs. I listen to a lot of music with very low bass, possibly lower than these speakers will play. Pipe organ and classical music are my favorite bass torture CD's second to an audio generator. I know I have to leave my Yamaha bass management on large so the built in subs in the towers will recieve LFE signals. But any signals going that are lower than the midranges crossover point are just a waste of power since the yamaha isnt actually driving anything below 60hz or so right? If the lower frequencies that are going to the sub amp are not bogging down the yamaha them im totally fine with the high level input situation. I tried to make this as clear as possible, please ask for further details if confused.

 

[Takeereasy]

Have you tried setting the fronts to small and using the lfe in on the powered subs in the towers?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I also bought 2 splitters (1 male RCA to two female RCAs) and now i have three .1 LFE outputs after connecting the two splitters. One for each 7002 and one for my supercube II. I found the bass to be muddy and not pleasing to my ears when using the LFE into the towers and sub, so i switched back to high level inputs.

Is it possible you weren't getting a proper signal due to the triple LFE outputs? How long are the runs from the Yamaha to the towers and sub? What does the bass sound like without the Supercube II?

 

[Nick250]

I know I have to leave my Yamaha bass management on large so the built in subs in the towers will recieve LFE signals. But any signals going that are lower than the midranges crossover point are just a waste of power since the yamaha isnt actually driving anything below 60hz or so right? If the lower frequencies that are going to the sub amp are not bogging down the yamaha them im totally fine with the high level input situation. I tried to make this as clear as possible, please ask for further details if confused.

What am missing? With the mains set to large the speakers are getting a full range signal regardless of how the sub part of the speaker is connected. Are not the subs in the speakers totally independent of what frequencies are sent to the non sub part of the speakers just like any other sub and therefor should be set to small? And given that, the receiver might be over taxed as a result.

It above seems obvious to me which usually means there is another similarly obvious a piece of the puzzle that I have completely missed.

Nick

 

[parkgoons]

Yes i tried the LFE and set on small, I set the recievers crossover to 60 hz as that sounded best, Yet it was still muddy. Im thinking the problem lies within the tripple LFE outputs as suggested. I have another idea, my reciever has a preout for each channel, so i might run the towers to Left/Right front and the sub to sub obviously, then set the reciever to not send anything lower than 60 hz or so. Does this sound logical?

 

[B5I8]

Yes i tried the LFE and set on small, I set the recievers crossover to 60 hz as that sounded best, Yet it was still muddy. Im thinking the problem lies within the tripple LFE outputs as suggested. I have another idea, my reciever has a preout for each channel, so i might run the towers to Left/Right front and the sub to sub obviously, then set the reciever to not send anything lower than 60 hz or so. Does this sound logical?

That way sounds like the best way to me.

 

[parkgoons]

I just thought of something, if i use the pre outs from the reciever and have the bass management set to 60hz would the bass management affect the pre outs as well or what?

 

[Nick250]

Yes i tried the LFE and set on small, I set the recievers crossover to 60 hz as that sounded best, Yet it was still muddy. Im thinking the problem lies within the tripple LFE outputs as suggested. I have another idea, my reciever has a preout for each channel, so i might run the towers to Left/Right front and the sub to sub obviously, then set the reciever to not send anything lower than 60 hz or so. Does this sound logical?

I am not sure I understand what you mean. Let me share my thinking though. The duplication of the sub signal to the power cube and mains are likely culprits along with speaker and sub placement. First, for the purposes of this discussion all speakers will be set to small and crossed over at 80Hz because because that is the de facto standard. First I would send the sub out to the power cube only to see how that sounds. The subs in the main are not used in this test. Next, do the opposite, sub out to the built in subs in the towers and no signal to the power cube. Compare the sound quality of how these experiments sound with that of both power cube and built in subs playing together. Lastly, subs are very location sensitive, so you probably need to experiment with different placements of the power cube.

Anyhow, that's my thinking. Let us know how it sounds in the different configurations.

Nick

 

[AVRat]

Yes, bass mgmt. does affect the pre-outs as well. FYI, FWIW the mains X-over to the powered woofer at 120Hz. Do you know which way the bass drivers are pointed, inward or outward? Positioning them so that they fire inward is preferred for tighter bass response. As Def Tech recommends, hook them up using the high-level connections only. I would prefer a small/60Hz setting. Another thing you need to do, if you haven’t done so already, is to balance the output of the woofer with the upper section using the gain control of the woofer amp. I think it was already suggested, but I’ll say it again, set up the mains first to your liking set as large (play some of your deep organ music to see what they’re capable of), then incorporate the sub optimizing its placement.

 

[parkgoons]

Nick, good ideas about leaving out the supercube, ill try tonight. I think ive found a good place for the super cube, it lies a about a foot from the wall in a corner. The room isnt very acousticly friendly... It has a 45 degree ceiling and is about 20x40 and has 8 foot ceilings. AVrat - That makes since that bass managment would affect the pre outs sorry for the dumb question. Another stupid question what does "FWIW" mean? sorry im new to this forum lol. powered drivers with radiator below are pointed outward, ill change that right now. Ill leave it hooked up as high-level only, then why would i set it to small and 60hz? the built in powered subs are definitly good for lower than 60 hz.. hell my center is good lower than that. I have a pretty good balance, maybe a bit much bass but i tend to like that. Thanks for all the great info ill let you know how it sounds after making adjustments. and if you could AVrat tell me why i would run the towers at small/60 when useing highlevel. thanks!

 

[parkgoons]

Heres an update, I switched the towers around, i dont notice much difference although the bass actually seems to be more powerful in the lower frequencies pink floyd-money proved this. Also the yamaha room optimizer (which usually needs fine tuning) said that the phase was reverse, although i tried it one normal and it sounded 100% better, the bass was a lot stronger I switched back for grins to reverse and i lost 50% of the bass. It sounds about perfect to my ear. Im very impressed with these def techs i must say. I might fool around with LFE tonight just to see if theres any sound im missing. Thanks again for everything guys.

 

[The Chukker]

I completely agree with AVRat. You should in my opinion set your bass management to large and run the 7002's full range and disconnect your sub completely during set up. There is quite a large range of LFE input on the back of the 7002's and even incremental changes create large variances in output. I have my 7002's (in my game room) set at roughly "11 o'clock". Also, as AVRat said you should have the sub ports facing in for tighter bass response -- looking at your musical tastes posted earlier this seems optimum. In addition Def Techs are quite sensitive to placement, moreso than other brands simply because of their bipolar set up. Try bringing them out at least 8-12 inches (more if possible) from the wall -- this should help combat brightness in the image and you should certainly toe them in slightly (a rough guideline is an imaginary line passing through the speaker past a point ~3 ft to the left and right of the seating position) -- this will help diffuse the late reflections bouncing off the rear wall. Once you have the mains set up to your liking then integrate your sub into the mix -- be careful -- too much LFE in 2-channel listening will definitely muddy the image; as posted earlier using the onboard subs in the 7002's for the LFE channel is NOT optimum and should be avoided. I have enjoyed my 7002's for years and they are very capable speakers that are very well built and outperform many speakers that cost a hell of a lot more. I somewhat agree with your assessment of low frequency response in the 7002's -- a very capable sub (at the very least a Supercube I or even better a Supercube Reference) will greatly enhance your overall experience and will give you greater flexibility with placement, etc. Good luck!!!
chux

 

[parkgoons]

Thanks chukker for the thorough response. Mine are set at 12 exactly on each, maybe a bit much bass for me i think ill turn it down between the 12 and 11 mark. The towers are facing in now and the more i listen the more i dont notice any difference maybe im just used to them this way i dont know for sure yet. I just measured the distance from the towers to the wall they're both 14 inches away exactly. Do you recommend trying them further out? They're both towed inward at about a 10-15 degree angle. I did the imaginary line thing, and they're both exactly as you recommended. I added my supercube II and found its mixed best at 12 oclock as well as the towers. I think I pretty much have it setup as good as its gonna get. Next Ill save up for the matching center and rears. I watched gone in 60 seconds today and incorperated my Boston VR-12 center and was blown away on how well the matched, infact they matched so well im wondering if I should even get the center. I need some new surrounds for sure, my jamos just cant keep up with these new guys. Again everyone thank you for your help.

 

[The Chukker]

If your Boston center blends reasonably well with the tonal qualities of your mains then I could not justify advising you to purchase the matching center from Def Tech (which coincidentally is the C/L/R 2500). Try some source material where the front three channels are getting some or all of the same signal. Clapton's disc "One More Car One More Rider" is a good example -- his vocals "bleed" over into the L and R channels quite prominently; you could move around the room critically listening and see if you hear a tonal difference between your mains and center. Good luck with your surrounds and welcome to the "obsession"