My in-celing speaker dilemma

[MDS]

My in-ceiling speaker dilemma

My house was pre-wired for surround and they chose to run wire for the surrounds to an in-ceiling location directly above the couch. The prior homeowners had two very small Polk Audio speakers hanging down from a bracket.

So...I called an AV installer to help me with pulling new wire, thinking I would have it pulled to the sides of the room so I could mount the surround speakers on the wall to the sides of the couch where they really should be placed. Now I wonder if I shouldn't bother and should just get better flush-mount in-ceiling speakers and put them in the original location.

So I have two options the way I see it:

1. Forget about mounting the surrounds on the side walls and just go with the in-ceiling speakers. No new wire to run, just purchase of decent in-ceiling speakers. I worry though that it won't sound right having the 'surround' information coming from directly above your head given that I have always had surrounds mounted to my sides.

2. Go with my original plan and pull new wire to the sides for the surrounds but also leave the wire for the in-ceiling speakers and use the in-ceiling as the rear surrounds for 7.1. The issue is that the in-ceiling speakers would then be roughly in line with the surrounds on the side walls instead of behind the listening position. If I get di-pole surrounds that fire forwards and backwards for the side walls, maybe having the rear surrounds directly overhead wouldn't sound so bad.

What would you do? Has anybody used in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds and found it satisfactory compared to the normal arrangment of having them at your sides and slightly above ear level?

 

[mtrycrafts]

My house was pre-wired for surround and they chose to run wire for the surrounds to an in-ceiling location directly above the couch. The prior homeowners had two very small Polk Audio speakers hanging down from a bracket.
So...I called an AV installer to help me with pulling new wire, thinking I would have it pulled to the sides of the room so I could mount the surround speakers on the wall to the sides of the couch where they really should be placed. Now I wonder if I shouldn't bother and should just get better flush-mount in-ceiling speakers and put them in the original location.
So I have two options the way I see it:
1. Forget about mounting the surrounds on the side walls and just go with the in-ceiling speakers. No new wire to run, just purchase of decent in-ceiling speakers. I worry though that it won't sound right having the 'surround' information coming from directly above your head given that I have always had surrounds mounted to my sides.
2. Go with my original plan and pull new wire to the sides for the surrounds but also leave the wire for the in-ceiling speakers and use the in-ceiling as the rear surrounds for 7.1. The issue is that the in-ceiling speakers would then be roughly in line with the surrounds on the side walls instead of behind the listening position. If I get di-pole surrounds that fire forwards and backwards for the side walls, maybe having the rear surrounds directly overhead wouldn't sound so bad.
What would you do? Has anybody used in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds and found it satisfactory compared to the normal arrangment of having them at your sides and slightly above ear level?

Is this ceiling an in-between floor type of ceiling so it would make wire redirection difficult, or attic up top and just inconvenient.

I have intercom speakers in the ceiling for casual music at times. You can certainly tell where the music is coming from. So, even better speakers would give you similar feeling. I just don't think that is where your attention should be for the rear channels, overhead. And, certainly not your surrounds. But, that is just me

 

[MDS]

It's a single story house and attic access is easy so it shouldn't be too bad to run wires to the side walls.

I'm going to let the installers do it because:
a) I don't have the tools to fish wire through the walls.
b) I don't want to do it myself.

I think the right answer is to pull new wire to the side walls and place the speakers there but rather than patching the in-ceiling holes or putting a blank wall plate over them, I was wondering if I should just put in-ceiling speakers there and try them as an experiment.

I have walked through model homes with in-ceiling speakers and I didn't like the feeling of the sound coming down on your head, so I wanted to hear opinions from others if they like in-ceiling or not.

Thanks for the reply Mtry.

 

[mtrycrafts]

It's a single story house and attic access is easy so it shouldn't be too bad to run wires to the side walls.

I'm going to let the installers do it because:
a) I don't have the tools to fish wire through the walls.
b) I don't want to do it myself.

I think the right answer is to pull new wire to the side walls and place the speakers there but rather than patching the in-ceiling holes or putting a blank wall plate over them, I was wondering if I should just put in-ceiling speakers there and try them as an experiment.

I have walked through model homes with in-ceiling speakers and I didn't like the feeling of the sound coming down on your head, so I wanted to hear opinions from others if they like in-ceiling or not.

Thanks for the reply Mtry.

I can understand that you don't want to mess with it. I have those days too, more and more.

Since the wire can be relatively easily be pulled through the attic, why not then just pull new wire to the side walls and first try the in-ceiling speakers as they are there already. If you want to experiment with better in-ceiling rear speakers, that too would be easy. You can always pull the in-ceiling speakers out if you don't like it at any of the experimental stages and patch it; You are not in a hurry for that.

Since you have that experience with in ceiling speakers, you know what I am talking about. They are fine for casual background music at dinner parties, friend over for other than audio experience. You may even leave it in and use it for that purpose, come to think of it. So, that part is not time sensitive. But, your real surround sound speakers on the side wall needs to be done right.

 

[MDS]

That's the way I am leaning now (first impressions are usually right!). I'll just leave the wire for the in-ceiling speakers but have the new wire pulled to the sides like my original plan.

I can then experiment with using the in-ceiling as the rears for 7.1 and if it sounds horrible as I expect, I'll just go back to telling the receiver there are only 5.1 speakers.

 

[KevInCinci]

I have the in-ceiling surround setup for my 7.1 system and don't find it annoying at all. Admittedly it took some getting used to at first, since I was used to stand-mounted speakers in my living room before I did the basement home theater thing. But what I've found since is that for the sort of ambient surround stuff that those speakers usually handle, you don't notice the direction. But when you get the stuff specifically moving around you from front to back, it can actually be more interesting to have it come from overhead. Like any airplane movie (Pearl Harbor & Top Gun come to mind) sounds really cool when planes actually seems like they're flying overhead. Same for the arrows in the beginning of Gladiator and the cannonballs in Master & Commander. Anyway, my point is that the obvious sound effects coming from the surround speakers often seem to be going overhead visually, not next to you. For the background sounds (like birds chirping, etc.), above-or-beside doesn't really matter and you don't really notice. But as I said, it does take a little getting used to, but visitors frequently comment on the difference.

Cheers,

Kevin

 

[MDS]

Thanks for your perspective Kevin. I was wondering to myself if the in-ceiling speakers might be ok for sounds that should sound like they are above you (like the airplane overhead example), but worried that you might miss out on sounds that pan around you from front to side.

Given what you've said I think it will at least be a worthwhile experiment to use both side surrounds and in-ceiling for the rears.

 

[Taskmaster]

To keep the wife happy I have 5 in-ceiling PolkAudio TC80i in my HT set up. The Polks are mounted at a angle and the tweeters are adjustable so I find the sound quality to be great and the look super clean.

Having a decent sub I believe is the real key. I wish I would have saved my money and purchased a better one to help anchor the sound.

One day I may be able to talk the wife into some towers and I will run them to my B speakers but for now I am happy with my all in-ceiling set up. Most people dont realize I have a HT set up until the movie starts.

 

[KevInCinci]

Another way to help out is to use in-ceilings with moveable cones. If you're sitting right under them, you can point the speakers slightly away from you for that more diffuse sound. It definitely makes a difference in telling precisely where the sound is coming from.

Cheers,

Kevin

 

[MDS]

Along those lines I was looking at some Niles in-ceiling speakers that have a switch that can be set to 'direct' or 'diffuse'. The diffuse setting puts the two tweeters out-of-phase, making them like dipoles. The tweeters are not aimable though.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I also think that in-ceiling speakers sound great for the surrounds. I am actuall swithing from surrounds on stands to in-ceilings. Plus the S.O. is allowing towers for my mains and a giant sub as long as I "get rid of the speakers behind us" It is like killing two birds with one stone. I had the same concerns as you but I have listened to 2 different systems with the surrounds in the ceiling and they actually were more difficult to tell where the sound was coming from...I am sold...

 

[u2generator]

What speakers are you using? I am also looking at in ceiling and am still researching.

TW

 

[MDS]

I'm not using any in-ceiling speakers yet. My dilemma was whether I should try them or not. I did look at a bunch on OneCall.com though and I like the various speakers from Niles better than the other brands they have but have never heard them and don't yet know which ones to buy IF I decide to use the in-ceiling speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm not using any in-ceiling speakers yet. My dilemma was whether I should try them or not. I did look at a bunch on OneCall.com though and I like the various speakers from Niles better than the other brands they have but have never heard them and don't yet know which ones to buy IF I decide to use the in-ceiling speakers.

If you do decide on such a speaker, make sure it is sturdy and it and its grill won't rattle with high power to it. Some DD logo trailers can certainly rattle in walls of lesser quality