My first audition...B&W 684

[Sylar]

I had my first audition of quality speakers. I tried out B&W 684 towers for a couple of hours. I must say, I was totally blown away with the quality of sound reproduction.
(Of course I am comparing with my not so great cubed desktop speakers used, which are very directional. Was also auditioning in an acoustically treated room, with bass traps, ect). Yet, some of the major differences i could make out easily were,

• Amazing bass. Now I know how ugly bass can really sound like! (First played madonna - secret, which sounds 'distorted - bass especially' on my speakers even at moderate volumes)

• I could make out different sounds very clearly. Especially sounds with a difference in volume levels. At times, I don't hear some sounds on my speakers, which I can hear on my iPod. One sound 'drowns the other'.
  But here, a totally different experience! Practical experience of a speaker with a better frequency response, maybe it is the inability of my speakers of one size driver to reproduce all sounds, or both. Am not close to being an expert to analyze like many of you here.

• The following was well, a very irritating experience. I could make out significant difference in quality of sounds with different mp3's played from my collection. Used the USB to play it with. The mp3's had different bit rates. Missing 'completeness to the sounds', and a little lifeless compared with better.

• I was a little perplexed here. Some cases, 192 sounded almost as good if not as good as 320 kbps. In some songs, the 128 kbps in one song sounded great while another song with 128kbps sounded not so great like mentioned above. Maybe different sampling frequencies, but same bit rate??

The last song I heard was, Micheal Jackson's - Man in the Mirror, sounded absolutely amazing!!! I am so tempted to buy just to hear this song

The prices for the B&W's back here are about,
B&W - 683 FS --> $2400
B&W - 684 FS --> $1800
B&W - 685 BS --> $1100
B&W - 686 BS --> $800

 

[GranteedEV]

And they're not even that good for the money

 

[Sylar]

And they're not even that good for the money

Do you mean the 684, or all 4 of the above mentioned.

Any recommendations for below 1000K, towers or floor standing?

 

[Sylar]

One thing I did notice was, when playing at moderate to high sound levels, Feeling the speaker on top & sides I could feel that the speakers are playing. I had auditioned the Paradim monitor 9 for a very short period, and I dont remember noticing this on them.

 

[Docks]

You can do much better for the money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...B&W 684...I am comparing with my not so great cubed desktop speakers...

Compare them to some PSB speakers or NHT speakers or even the much cheaper Infinity P362/363 speakers.

Bottom line, compare a lot more speakers before you make your purchase.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

One thing I did notice was, when playing at moderate to high sound levels, Feeling the speaker on top & sides I could feel that the speakers are playing. I had auditioned the Paradim monitor 9 for a very short period, and I dont remember noticing this on them.

You mean the cabinet was vibrating?

Cabinet resonance is a bad thing.

 

[zumbo]

I have a friend with a 684 system. He is constantly getting me over to try to get his system to sound as good as mine. I have given-up. Not only do the speakers sound bad, the build quality is very poor. Bass is impressive, but I let my sub handle that.

My MB Quart QLS 830's cost less, and are much better. Not as much bass, but as mentioned, I let my sub handle bass duties below 60Hz.

http://www.yawaonline.com/mbquql63tosp.html

 

[Sylar]

Bottom line, compare a lot more speakers before you make your purchase.

Don't have the liberty of comparing them side by side. For instance the B&W's are in one shop...the paradigm in another...PSB in yet another shop.
With PSB I can only compare the Image T6 Towers with Image B5 bookshelves.

Compare them to some PSB speakers or NHT speakers or even the much cheaper Infinity P362/363 speakers.

I auditioned the, PSB Image T6 speakers today. He had the T6 & B5. I liked how they sounded, unable to compare to the B&W's which i checked the previous day. Forgotten how they sound.
Will be going back tomorrow for a few hours tomorrow.

The seller mentioned that the Imagine B to be terrific, but he doesn't have them to audition.

 

[Swerd]

Sylar

It seems from your original post that this may be the first time you seriously listened to speakers with the intent of spending some of your cash. No one is really too surprised that you liked what you heard better than your desktop cubes.

Your observations are pretty good in general, especially about how disappointing mp3 versions of recordings can sound. You liked the bass you heard in the 684 demo and you were observant enought to notice that the dealer had put some effort into the setting up those speakers in the room. Remember that speaker and listener locations in any room have the biggest effect on bass sound quality. So what you heard at the dealer may or may not be easily reproduced at home.

I'm going to echo what others here have already said, that before you pay about $1800 per pair for floor standing speakers, there are quite a few other speakers available in that price range that are very good. B&W 600 series speakers are expensive - for the price others are a better value. While their bass performance may have stood out to you when you heard them, what ultimately makes or breaks most speakers is how well they do in the midrange, the part of the audio spectrum where most music really happens. The people I've known who had B&W 600 series speakers have ultimately replaced them because of harshness in their upper midrange. It is easy to not notice that at first, especially if they are going from computer speakers or ipod earphones, but over time that harshness has been known to make people unhappy with those speakers.

In the general price range of B&W 684s, I'd recommend Salk Songbirds or SongTowers.

Good luck with your continued search.

 

[Sylar]

You mean the cabinet was vibrating?

Cabinet resonance is a bad thing.

Basically to test which speaker is playing (Possible only at moderate-loud levels), I place my hand on top and i can feel which one is on. Can feel very small vibrations on my palm n fingers. Do you mean that even this should not happen??

 

[Swerd]

Basically to test which speaker is playing (Possible only at moderate-loud levels), I place my hand on top and i can feel which one is on. Can feel very small vibrations on my palm n fingers. Do you mean that even this should not happen??

No, you should feel vibrations in all speaker cabinets. The question is does the cabinet "ring" or vibrate too much at certain frequencies. I find this hard to know without measurements, such as those published in some reviews, where they specifically look for cabinet resonances.

A simple way to tell is try to llift the cabinet. This is a broad generalization, but heavy cabinets are less likely to "ring" than light ones.

FWIW, B&W 600 series cabinets are known to be on the lightly built side of things. Their much more expensive 800 series speaker cabs are much more solidly constructed.

 

[Sylar]

The question is does the cabinet "ring" or vibrate too much at certain frequencies.

I did a quick test with my speakers here...my speakers here have longer vibrations as compared to the short ones i felt. My speakers are definitely resonating big time.

FWIW, B&W 600 series cabinets are known to be on the lightly built side of things. Their much more expensive 800 series speaker cabs are much more solidly constructed.

Too big a differences in weight...and of course. Price too. 20kg for 684 as compared to 40kg for 803

 

[Sylar]

It seems from your original post that this may be the first time you seriously listened to speakers with the intent of spending some of your cash. No one is really too surprised that you liked what you heard better than your desktop cubes.

Your observations are pretty good in general, especially about how disappointing mp3 versions of recordings can sound. You liked the bass you heard in the 684 demo and you were observant enought to notice that the dealer had put some effort into the setting up those speakers in the room. Remember that speaker and listener locations in any room have the biggest effect on bass sound quality. So what you heard at the dealer may or may not be easily reproduced at home.

I'm going to echo what others here have already said, that before you pay about $1800 per pair for floor standing speakers, there are quite a few other speakers available in that price range that are very good. B&W 600 series speakers are expensive - for the price others are a better value. While their bass performance may have stood out to you when you heard them, what ultimately makes or breaks most speakers is how well they do in the midrange, the part of the audio spectrum where most music really happens. The people I've known who had B&W 600 series speakers have ultimately replaced them because of harshness in their upper midrange. It is easy to not notice that at first, especially if they are going from computer speakers or ipod earphones, but over time that harshness has been known to make people unhappy with those speakers.

In the general price range of B&W 684s, I'd recommend Salk Songbirds or SongTowers.

Good luck with your continued search.

Thanks for the advice Swerd. I definitely find it overwhelming to make a decision, more so considering that I do not have an 'audioholic ear'. I have been trying to read as much as possible to place myself in a better position to decide. I dont have the liberty to audition much, back here a couple of hours or so. After that you are not welcome. This is our way of life in our country. (Which itself we consider very customer friendly!)
Yet, my fear is, how can I learn in a not so hard way, what these terms actually sound like...

• Harshness in the upper midrange.

• Full Bass vs Deep Bass (the same?).

• It sounds laid back.

....among many others.

Also for instance today, I had an ex country manager for a very reputed receiver, advice me i was making a stupid decision to decide on my fronts first. And he advised me to buy receiver first, without convincing reasons very convincingly.
My earlier query on the same.
I have a very simple and easy answer for this from my small little experience itself. (Kept it to myself though.)
Speakers are not easy to choose. Do the hard part first, don't make it even more difficult by narrowing down the already hard to choose available choices.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for the advice Swerd. I definitely find it overwhelming to make a decision, more so considering that I do not have an 'audioholic ear'. I have been trying to read as much as possible to place myself in a better position to decide. I dont have the liberty to audition much, back here a couple of hours or so. After that you are not welcome. This is our way of life in our country. (Which itself we consider very customer friendly!)
Yet, my fear is, how can I learn in a not so hard way, what these terms actually sound like...

• Harshness in the upper midrange.

• Full Bass vs Deep Bass (the same?).

• It sounds laid back.

....among many others.

Also for instance today, I had an ex country manager for a very reputed receiver, advice me i was making a stupid decision to decide on my fronts first. And he advised me to buy receiver first, without convincing reasons very convincingly.
My earlier query on the same.
I have a very simple and easy answer for this from my small little experience itself. (Kept it to myself though.)
Speakers are not easy to choose. Do the hard part first, don't make it even more difficult by narrowing down the already hard to choose available choices.

You were given good advice, and you are smart enought to listen to it. There have been plenty of others here who don't seem to listen or understand, and that may explain why people here have been glad to help you .

It's easy to get over your head on the technical side with speakers. About 10 or 11 years ago I got interested in DIY speaker building mainly because I wanted to understand what made a good speaker sound good. It can be difficult to explain things on an internet forum and keep it short and simple. It can also be very hard to translate how a speaker sounds into words that everyone understands the same way.

When you audition speakers, bring your own music that you are familiar with. Exactly what music it is matters less than the fact that you are fimiliar with how it sounds on other speakers.

I find it helps if some of your audition music contains unamplified instruments that you know well (guitar and piano work for me, but use what you prefer). Normal human voices also work well because we all know how that should sound. Some pop music uses recording gimics to process and alter the vocal sound. You may like it, but it isn't a good example of a normal human voice.

I also find that some music with quieter passages, or "space" between the notes, works better to audition speakers than loud busy music. Its easier to notice speaker flaws that way.

If you do that, after a few auditions, you'll find you start noticing speakers you like and don't like. It does take some time, but it isn't impossible.

And like others told you in your other thread, once you choose the speakers, choosing a receiver is much easier. All you have to do is make sure the receiver has enough juice to drive your speakers well. And no matter what anyone says, the differences between receivers are much smaller than the differences between speakers.

 

[timoteo]

for some reason, a lot on this forum are not a huge fan of B&W speakers. Most of the recommendations that you have been given so far are very much person oppinions. Dont let anyone tell you what speakers do & dont sound good because only youy can make that decision. I happen to totally love the sound the B&Ws offer. I totally disagree with the comment that they are built cheap. I have personally taken my 683s apart & what I saw inside made me appreciate the speaker even more because of its quality components. I do agree that you need to listen to as many as possible b4 making a purchase this big though. I listened a lot b4 i bought mine. If you can jump up to the 683s over the 684s youll get the mid-range sound from the FST driver which is smoother which is nice. I hope you get all the info your looking for & that you end up with a speaker that will give you many hours of great listening. Dont rule out B&W...they havent been around as long as they have by making a bad product.

Happy Listening!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, we may all have different tastes.

I love the sound of the Revel Salon 2 and KEF 201/2, but I did not care for the sound of the B&W 800D, 802D, and 803D at all; they sounded very "small" and "compressed" to me.

But what puzzles me is how an expensive B&W 802D can underperform a cheap Infinity P360 speaker on the off-axis frequency response measured by Stereophile.

Could someone please justify that for me?

I know measurements are not everything.

But for that kind of money, I expect more, don't you?

B&W 802D:

Infinity P360:

 

[Docks]

The B&W 8xx series is a very well made cabinet. Other than a fantastic cabinet and nice step response... meh.
I guess each to their own.
On the other hand I do agree, the P360s offer a staggering amount of value for the price, almost to the point where everyone should have a pair heh. The frequency response alone at this price should be a guideline for all other speaker manufactures to follow.

 

[zumbo]

B&W 802D are fine. Super fine.

Infinity are junk, and they sound like junk. Nothing personal meant, just reinforcing the fact that different people have different taste.

No graph needed.

On the other hand, I don't have the coin for B&W 802D, or any other 800 series speaker. However, B&W 800 series are some of the finest I have heard. Far, far, from the performance and build quality of the 600 series. The two shouldn't even have the same brand name on them.

 

[Sylar]

You were given good advice, and you are smart enought to listen to it. There have been plenty of others here who don't seem to listen or understand, and that may explain why people here have been glad to help you .

You made a very critical point. I have begun to realize what marketing basically targets is the mass majority, who either do not have the time or patience to do some research, or they dont have the knowledge/capacity to understand how things work, understand to some extend at least. I saw this myself. Also I heard advice from friends & family whom I thought knew. Recently I saw a couple of buyers who were like, sell me the best speaker for this price, and the owner kept repeating in vain, that it is relative. They dont seem to realize that most of the time the person whom they are approaching is not gonna say no. So when you consider this aspect of us humans (ok some of 'us'), and if a renowned brand sells junk, junk it is! Ignorance is really bliss. It is sad our planet mostly works this way.

I used to be on a couple of other sites before i came here...and I found this site suited me, as I am always in search of how & why of things. Before I came here, for 6 months I researched online how the 2008 financial collapse happened, as I never understood the fuzzy terms I came across....and then I was shocked as hell to find out the ugly truth... which is so widely available. yet I have not read one article on newspapers or media here.
Every new person I meet back at home, i ask them to watch this. (Kindly excuse drifting off topic a bit)

That made me realize, not to listen to people around me, but to go online and find different views, where there is plenty of information. (Of course, among lots of not so reliable info).