My Experiences with Yamaha A1000 As Pre-Pro -- First Impressions

[modman]

I love good sound at a good price...so I have, in the past, purchased cost-effective Pioneer or Yamaha receivers and used the pre-outs to supply my beloved Maranta MM-9000 (5-ch, 150 wpc) power amp. This has been a good deal for me. I listen to some music at high levels, and I love sci-fi movies with lots of rumble and pop.

My last receiver (er...pre-pro) was the Yamaha 665. It did a great job for me. But I was very interested in the new network, connectivity, and other features of the Aventage 1000. Amazon had this baby for $650, no shipping or sales tax. My local Best Buy would not even try to match this price. So I bought it, and it arrived this week. I will be sharing my experiences with it in the forum...and hopefully getting some helpful advice.

I had previewed the unit at Best Buy, and I knew it was built well. But when I unboxed it, it was very impressive. Solid, heavy, and finished quite nicely. The panel cover which hides the front controls and connections opens and closes with a very satisfying dampened action.

I was unhappy that Yamaha chose not to include a printed owner's manual -- there was a CD instead. Yeah, I know I can print the PDF file from the CD or the web site, but come on!

Of course, either the paper- or e-version of the manual cannot hide that fact that it is lean on information....IMHO. A "newbie" getting this thing would be at a loss, I think.

I am about to hook this beast up...and see what transpires! Stay tuned.

 

[Adam]

Congrats on the new gear! I look forward to your impressions of it.

 

[modman]

Three Questions before Starting...

I could use some experienced input on three questions before I start hooking this A-1000 up:

1. Given what you know about the power supply for the Yamaha A series...is my Marantz amp really necessary? My room is modestly sized -- about 15 x 15.

2. The new YPAO allows for multi-point measurement. But I have heard that doing so compromises the possible sound quality in the primary listening position, in order to make listening better for all positions. True? If I am the main listener and want the best possible sound, should I only do one point?

3. I saw something in a thread somewhere, but now I can't find it...can you tell the A1000 that you are using a separate amp, and does it then turn off the amps so that the sound quality might be better.

Thanks

 

[Adam]

1. Given what you know about the power supply for the Yamaha A series...is my Marantz amp really necessary? My room is modestly sized -- about 15 x 15.

The best way, IMO, is to try it both ways. That way, you'll know if the Marantz makes any audible difference to you.

3. I saw something in a thread somewhere, but now I can't find it...can you tell the A1000 that you are using a separate amp, and does it then turn off the amps so that the sound quality might be better.

Wow, this is more complicated than I had imagined. I figured that there would be a "Speaker" button that you'd press to turn the internal amps off, but I can't find that in the manual anywhere. I also looked through some of the menu options but don't see anything conclusive. The "Power Amp Assign" menu is mentioned in the section regarding hooking up an external amp, but I don't see an option to turn off the internal amps. I hope that I'm missing something.

 

[Pyrrho]

I could use some experienced input on three questions before I start hooking this A-1000 up:

1. Given what you know about the power supply for the Yamaha A series...is my Marantz amp really necessary? My room is modestly sized -- about 15 x 15.

2. The new YPAO allows for multi-point measurement. But I have heard that doing so compromises the possible sound quality in the primary listening position, in order to make listening better for all positions. True? If I am the main listener and want the best possible sound, should I only do one point?

3. I saw something in a thread somewhere, but now I can't find it...can you tell the A1000 that you are using a separate amp, and does it then turn off the amps so that the sound quality might be better.

Thanks

1. How much power you need depends also on the speakers you have and how loud you play them, so your question cannot be answered as asked. As Adam suggests, try it both ways.

2. Of course adjusting for several positions in the room will compromise the sound for the one spot! It could not be any other way, no matter what brand we are talking about. However, unless you are watching alone, and are always in that one spot, that may not be a bad thing.

3. Regardless of whether the power amps are still drawing idle power, the power supply for the receiver will be able to provide all the power the preamp, tuner, and processor sections need, so it is a matter of no importance as far as sound quality is concerned. However, if it is possible to turn off all power to the power amp section, I recommend doing so in order to conserve power and very slightly lower your electric bill. But it will not improve the sound of anything.

 

[PENG]

1

2. Of course adjusting for several positions in the room will compromise the sound for the one spot! It could not be any other way, no matter what brand we are talking about.

Not really, another brand such as Audyssey recommends using the maximum allowable positions for best results even if you always sit in the same one spot. For YPAO I suggest the OP email or phone Yamaha technical support directly for an accurate response.

 

[Pyrrho]

Not really, another brand such as Audyssey recommends using the maximum allowable positions for best results even if you always sit in the same one spot. For YPAO I suggest the OP email or phone Yamaha technical support directly for an accurate response.

They can claim any BS they want, but if a setup is ideally matched to one spot, any alteration from that is going to degrade the sound for that one spot. Thus, using multiple spots to set it up is going to either degrade the sound for that one spot (however slightly), or do nothing at all. Either that, or the device does not work properly in the setup at the one spot to begin with, in which case it would be better to get a different automatic setup system.

 

[PENG]

They can claim any BS they want, but if a setup is ideally matched to one spot, any alteration from that is going to degrade the sound for that one spot. Thus, using multiple spots to set it up is going to either degrade the sound for that one spot (however slightly), or do nothing at all. Either that, or the device does not work properly in the setup at the one spot to begin with, in which case it would be better to get a different automatic setup system.

You are talking about an ideal/perfect situation where the listener would have to positon his/her ears exactly where the measuring device is placed but that is practically impossible for more than one reasons. BS or not, I do have more faith in advice from people who spent years of research in university (such as Audyssey) to develop their ARC system than an "opinion" (with due respect) that we are all entitiled. Again, the OP will be well served by writing directly to Yamaha tech support.

 

[Adam]

Again, the OP will be well served by writing directly to Yamaha tech support.

Agreed - they might have some good info. The OP would also be well served to try it out different ways and determine which he prefers. There's theory, and then there's practical application.

 

[Pyrrho]

You are talking about an ideal/perfect situation where the listener would have to positon his/her ears exactly where the measuring device is placed but that is practically impossible for more than one reasons. BS or not, I do have more faith in advice from people who spent years of research in university (such as Audyssey) to develop their ARC system than an "opinion" (with due respect) that we are all entitiled. Again, the OP will be well served by writing directly to Yamaha tech support.

Yes, I am discussing an ideal case. You should have looked at the entire point, not just the part you quoted. Here is my original response to point 2, with the part you omitted with emphasis added:

...
2. Of course adjusting for several positions in the room will compromise the sound for the one spot! It could not be any other way, no matter what brand we are talking about. However, unless you are watching alone, and are always in that one spot, that may not be a bad thing.

...

I am certainly not recommending that one not use multiple locations for setting up one's system, if one's system has that capability. But if one cared only about the sound at one point in the room, then it wouldn't be a good idea. Most of us don't always watch alone, and even if we do, we are not likely to have our heads always precisely positioned at that one point. And so using multiple points in the room is often a very good idea, when possible. But doing so will, of necessity, degrade the sound, however slightly or trivially, for that one point, unless it makes no alteration whatsoever.

So, whether one should or should not use multiple points depends on precisely what sort of results one wants. But for most people, using multiple points is probably a very good idea, and generally one should do so in accordance with the advice given in the owner's manual.

 

[avnetguy]

Congrats on the A1000 purchase, waiting to hear your thoughts on how it compares to your previous setup with and without the ext amp.

I'd follow the suggestions of trying the YPAO boh ways (single/multiple) and see which works best for you.

On a related side note, does anyone else feel there is a real need for a detailed "auto-configuration" analysis and/or comparison?

Steve

 

[modman]

Okay, I'm in the process of hooking up the new A1000, and so far I'm lovin' being part of the "full HDMI" generation.

I have a few questions some of you may be able to help with:

1. This unit has a dedicated Phono In input...I assume that it has an amp associated with it. My last receiver did not. I'm using a Sony turntable with a built-in line amp...will it be OK to use that amped signal into an amped input?

2. I have had a XM Radio subscription for a few years now. On my current (past) receiver, I used a Pioneer XM To Go unit and hooked its stereo RCA jacks into the receiver. Yamaha's owner's manual indicates that subscribers to Sirius can buy a little receiver that is dedicated to the A1000, and it will give on-screen info about tracks that are playing. So...I have some questions:

A. Aren't XM and Sirius the same now?
B. If so, will my current subscription cover me if I buy the little dedicated Sirius receiver?

As always, thanks for your help.

I to have this calibrated and running by tonight...I'll transmit my experiences then.

MM

 

[Adam]

1. This unit has a dedicated Phono In input...I assume that it has an amp associated with it. My last receiver did not. I'm using a Sony turntable with a built-in line amp...will it be OK to use that amped signal into an amped input?

You don't want to do that. Not only will it come across as extremely loud, that Phono input (and, I'm assuming, the built-in pre-amp in the Sony) also apply some equalization. If you can turn off the Sony amp, then using the Phono input would be fine. Otherwise, use a different input on the receiver.

 

[PENG]

Pyrrho, you might have missed the fact that the only point I took exception from you post was your reference to "..no matter what brand.." part and I am sorry if I might have inadvertently come across as nit picking. I took exception to that part because I know Audyssey, for one, does not recommend the single point approach regardless. Let me share with you and others interested in their response to my question about single point vs multipoint. I also raised the question about compromising, and their response was:

"MultEQ collects information from the listening area and optimizes the sound over a large area. More info here:
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

Always use the same pattern for measurements regardless of how many listening positions there are

There is no compromise. Our 10+ year research at the university showed that if you correct for a single spot you often get worse results than no correction. The information required for proper room correction is spatially distributed even if you only have one listener."

Other than that I actually thought you may well be right about brands such as YPAO, MCACC etc., I suggested the OP write to Yamaha just to be 100% sure. I also agree with Adam, regardless of Yamaha's response the OP should also try both ways, and then settle with the one he prefers.

 

[modman]

Trouble Setting Up A1000

Listen...I know that changing receivers/pre-pros is a big event and requires patience. But I am encountering BIG problems getting this thing going...I am now officially on Strike 1. Strike 3 = cutting the unit in two pieces with a chain saw or sending it back to Amazon (most likely the latter).

I could use some help, gang. I cannot begin to tell you how much this Owner's Manual sucks....and how much not having a printed version sucks even more. Screw you, Yamaha.

1. Cable Quality -- I have the same cable box as I did before (ATT U-Verse DVR). I was using component output for video and an optical digital for the sound. The picture quality was outstanding. Now, using the A1000, I have tried hooking the cable box up using both HDMI and the same component/optical combo...I am getting lots of signal stopping/jitter using both methods. I have tried rebooting the ATT box...no luck. The quality of picture is not as good as before, also. Very disappointing.

2. SCENE functions -- I am foaming at the mouth on this one. On my previous Yamaha 665 receiver, a single input could be assigned to two different SCENE buttons. That's important for me. I use my Oppo DVD player as both a Blu-Ray/DVD player for movies and a CD player for audio. For the former, I want the sound processing to be STRAIGHT, using the Oppo's internal decoder. For the latter, I want to use the Yamaha's surround decoder to do DLPx on the two-channel audio signal. This worked on the former unit...on the A1000, changing the sound processing for one SCENE function (that is, one input) changes it on any other SCENE using that same input. Retarded.

3. This is a big one....I bought this puppy understanding that it plays WAV or FLAC files. I just plugged in a USB stick with WAV files on it...the screen says "No Content." This along is a deal breaker.

As I said, changing receivers is no small matter. But I was not expecting to hit such major snags so soon.

Your assistance greatly welcome!!!!

MM

 

[avnetguy]

Wow, sorry to hear you're having problems already, I'll throw out a couple of suggestions.

1. When testing the component/optical did you unplug the HDMI, if not, do so.

2. Might want to send an email to Yamaha to confirm your findings.

3. Toss a few mp3 files on the USB stick, see if they are recognized.

>> If the mp3 files are not seen, take you stick to the computer and format it FAT32 (** backup any data first as you'll lose whatever is currently on the USB stick **). Now copy your audio files over and try it again on the A1000 with both .wav and .mp3 files present.

>> If the .mp3 files are seen but not the .wav files. Rip a different CD using WMP and copy those over to the USB stick for another try.

HTH,
Steve

 

[Adam]

Hi, MM.

3. Check out page 75 of the manual if you haven't already. Make sure that the USB device is formatted FAT 16 or FAT 32, you don't have more than 8 levels of directories, and you don't have more than 500 files.

 

[3db]

Pyrrho, you might have missed the fact that the only point I took exception from you post was your reference to "..no matter what brand.." part and I am sorry if I might have inadvertently come across as nit picking. I took exception to that part because I know Audyssey, for one, does not recommend the single point approach regardless. Let me share with you and others interested in their response to my question about single point vs multipoint. I also raised the question about compromising, and their response was:

"MultEQ collects information from the listening area and optimizes the sound over a large area. More info here:
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

Always use the same pattern for measurements regardless of how many listening positions there are

There is no compromise. Our 10+ year research at the university showed that if you correct for a single spot you often get worse results than no correction. The information required for proper room correction is spatially distributed even if you only have one listener."

Other than that I actually thought you may well be right about brands such as YPAO, MCACC etc., I suggested the OP write to Yamaha just to be 100% sure. I also agree with Adam, regardless of Yamaha's response the OP should also try both ways, and then settle with the one he prefers.

Maybe this question should be posted in another thread....but from an interest point of view (and who am I to argue with University research )....However, something just doesn't sit square in my mind.. If one has optimized for one listening position, then how can that be worse than no correction at all for that listening position? Or is it worse than no room correection outside the corrected position? Also, the other question that pops into mind is give multipoint corrects over a wider area, there has to be some compromises made to take in affect the larger area so that the sweet spot would NOT sound quite as good compared to that of a sweet spot corrected for that spot alone.

For my room, I don't think I would benefit from the multipoint as the seating psotion is not greater than 20% degrees off center and the 4 seater couch is positioned in the center between the mains and the surrounds.

 

[modman]

One problem down...sorta

I think a lot of my problems are due to the fact that I am trying to read the @#$%% manual on a small netbook next to my rack. So I keep missing stuff, even though I read the thing through before starting installation. I HATE PDF files...it's like trying to read the newspaper with a telescope!

Anyhoo, it turns out that the poor video quality and the signal jitter for the cable was due to my fancy APC power center...when I installed the A1000, I decided to (finally) route the incoming cable signal through the APC, to give me protection from a lightning strike. I used a good quality coax coming out of the APC to the cable box. Nonetheless, at a loss last night, I went back and connected the incoming line directly to the cable box, bypassing the APC. Bang! Picture quality went back to its old (good) quality, and there was absolutely no jittering.

Seems odd that such a high-quality product like the APC would affect the quality like that, eh? Any clues as to why?

Thanks for the previous comments....very, very helpful.

 

[3db]

modman.


Congradulations BTW.