MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
annunaki said:
Would you care to expound on that hypothesis as to why?

Yeah, PWM is a crappy way to reproduce an audio signal. Lower damping factor, and usually higher distortion.

Plus, I'm more old fashioned when it comes to my audio.
 
T

Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
MacManNM said:
Class D amps are Junk. Period.

I assume from this statement you have very little to no experience with them.
 
MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
Tex-amp said:
I assume from this statement you have very little to no experience with them.

I could say Pioneer components are junk too, does that mean I have no experience with them? I have heard class D amps, and just dont like them. Maybe the ones I've heard had crappy filters, who knows.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
He's not totally off

Tex-amp said:
I assume from this statement you have very little to no experience with them.
Just read an article written by a Bruno Putzeys. Here's what he had to say about these D amps: Class D designs are prone to distortion, mainly from imperfect power supply regulation and timing error. Since the output voltage of a Class "D" amplifier is directly purportional to the power supply voltage, any error in that voltage modulates the output voltage. Power supply diferences or variations in the amount of current drawn by the amplifier show up in the output as "distortion." Instabilities in the supply itself, such as "power line ripple", show up at the output as noise, or the dreadful hum. Building a power supply so that voltages remain rock steady in spite of fluctuations in output current is a monumental and costly task.

The other source of distortion is timing error, due to variation in how long MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field-effect transistors - FYI) take to switch from on to off, which in turn depends on how much current the amp is being called on to deliver. This eror causes the output duty-cycle to differ from the input duty-cycle; the output signal's shape differs from the input signal's shape. Timing error causes distortion proportionaly to the duty-cycle error—the ratio of the timing uncertainty to a single switching period. The greater the timing uncertainty and the higher the switching frequency (the higher the frequency of the triangle wave in the PWM circuitry), the worse the distortion.

Frequency response is another performance issue for "Class D" amplification. The all-important low-pass output filter, which recovers the original audio signal from the Pulse Width Modulation (pwm) waveform, is passive, and its frequency response is flat only when it drives a purely resistive load of a specified value. Since the impedance of real loudspeaker loads varies between 4 and 16 ohms at different frequencies, a solution is obviously needed.

Class D does not stand for digital. What distinguishes "Class D" amplifiers from all others is that their power transistors are always operated either fully on or fully off. Class D amplifier can reproduce only binary (two-valued) waves. So to use it to amplify analog music signals, those signals have to be converted into a suitable on-off waveform. One way to do this is with pulse-width modulation - as stated above. In PWM, the amplitude of an analog input signal serves to control the average percentage of time the transistor spends turned fully on, known as its "duty cycle."

The PWM signal is generated by comparing the analog input signal with a "triangle" waveform—one that continuously sweeps linearly from a low to a high value and back. To do that, both signals are fed into an analog device whose output is high whenever the analog signal has the higher instantaneous value, and low when the opposite happens.

The output of this analog device, then, is a waveform that has the information of the original analog signal and yet switches between just two values. In a Class D amplifier, this "PWM" waveform acts as a binary control signal that switches the transistors on and off depending on the amplitude of the analog input. Changing the power supply voltages changes the amount of amplification.
If it seems complicated, it is. The best class D amps go into our subwoofers. They also go into car audio amps where ventilation is an issue. I don't think the home audio world is ready just yet for "Class D" providing all of the amplification needed to drive all of our frequencies to our satisfaction. Class A is still the best for lowest THD, and AB seems to be the best compromise of all options.
 
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Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
How low do they go?

Mac,

Have you tested the DV84's with a meter yet? The site does not give +/-3dB measurements, so I was interested in seeing what the actual low end is. Somehow I doubt they are rated down to 27Hz. Here's the specs from the site:

Venturi DV84

Sugg. Retail Value $798pr
-Design- Video-shielded, two-
way, dual woofers & radiators

-Frequency Response- 27 Hz-
22kHz
-Sensitivity- 90 dB @ 1 watt,
1 meter
-Recommended Amplifier
Power- 10-250 watts per chan.
-Driver Complement- Two
8" poly woofers, passive
radiators & 3/4" dome tweeter
-Crossover- 3 kHz
-Impedance- 8 Ohms
-Dimensions- 43 1/2" H,
10" W, 11 3/4" D
-Finish- Black laminate

-Limited Warranty- 7 years
Parts & Labor
 
T

Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
My experience is only with the digital class Ds. The complete lack of any background noise on the digital amps is likely where my difference of opinion comes in.
 
MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
Buckeyefan 1 said:
Mac,

Have you tested the DV84's with a meter yet? The site does not give +/-3dB measurements, so I was interested in seeing what the actual low end is. Somehow I doubt they are rated down to 27Hz. Here's the specs from the site:

Venturi DV84

Sugg. Retail Value $798pr
-Design- Video-shielded, two-
way, dual woofers & radiators

-Frequency Response- 27 Hz-
22kHz
-Sensitivity- 90 dB @ 1 watt,
1 meter
-Recommended Amplifier
Power- 10-250 watts per chan.
-Driver Complement- Two
8" poly woofers, passive
radiators & 3/4" dome tweeter
-Crossover- 3 kHz
-Impedance- 8 Ohms
-Dimensions- 43 1/2" H,
10" W, 11 3/4" D
-Finish- Black laminate

-Limited Warranty- 7 years
Parts & Labor
I have not had a chance to make any measurements. Any measurements in the room would be misleading. I plan to make a few in our anechoic chamber in the future. My ears tell me they go down to 30-35Hz quite well. The real strong suit of these speakers are the great hard hitting (for 8” woofers) bass, and the great highs.
 
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