My BIC Review

[MacManNM]

I had a bunch of pics but they were all too large. If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to let me know.

 

[Takeereasy]

Nice review.

It's nice to see that the Bic's turned out to be such a bargin. Good job on the review. Were you using the Marantz to do your listening? What are your impressions of it? Mine still isn't here, thank you very much Canadian Customs, so I'm getting ready to bite the heads off of nails.

 

[MacManNM]

I did not use the Marantz for the review; I wanted to use a 2ch setup that I knew really well.

As for my impressions of the Marantz, once I figured out the remote, it was a snap to setup. It sounds really good. Clean, neutral power. The processor is awesome. I watched Blade II after I got everything hooked up. It BLEW me away. I didn't realize how much stuff is going on in that movie. In 2ch mode it was a pleasant surprise. Even using the internal DAC it sounded really good. I think it is a good deal at even $700. “You have chosen wisely”.

 

[teewinot]

I can't seem to find the DV84 on the BIC website. A search at the site turned up zero matches. They have the DV64 however, but its freq. response a tad less (29Hz-22kHz) and it used 6 1/2" mid and bass drivers, as opposed to the 8" in your review.

I have to say that your review makes me want to have these, but I'm scared a bit by the low price. "Too good to be true" comes to mind. But you're saying they sounded good, even when compared with the McIntosh (though not the same category, obviously)!

Do you know if the DV84 is still available?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

2nd ones down

I can't seem to find the DV84 on the BIC website. A search at the site turned up zero matches. They have the DV64 however, but its freq. response a tad less (29Hz-22kHz) and it used 6 1/2" mid and bass drivers, as opposed to the 8" in your review.

I have to say that your review makes me want to have these, but I'm scared a bit by the low price. "Too good to be true" comes to mind. But you're saying they sounded good, even when compared with the McIntosh (though not the same category, obviously)!

Do you know if the DV84 is still available?

They are the second ones down. Are you at the right site?

www.bicamerica.com/ttowers.htm

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Radiators vs Bass Reflex

Mac,

Many of the competitors to the DV84 that feature dual 8" woofers have a bass reflex design over the radiators. Do you feel this hinders the DV84's ability to play "loud?"

Do the lowest frequencies suffer with radiators?

Do you think these towers require more than an entry level receiver to sound good? So many of the reasonably priced towers have very low spl levels.

We don't see too many towers with radiators, but are seeing more subs cropping up with them. Just wanted to pick your brain on that odd design feature. Very nice looking set.

Finally, regarding the SR8400, have you attempted to set up the system with the room eq? Since the SR8400 has no internal parametric eq, do you think the system has the flexibility to satisfy everyone? Or is the sound so natural that is doesn't matter?

 

[MacManNM]

Mac,

Many of the competitors to the DV84 that feature dual 8" woofers have a bass reflex design over the radiators. Do you feel this hinders the DV84's ability to play "loud?"

Do the lowest frequencies suffer with radiators?

Do you think these towers require more than an entry level receiver to sound good? So many of the reasonably priced towers have very low spl levels.

We don't see too many towers with radiators, but are seeing more subs cropping up with them. Just wanted to pick your brain on that odd design feature. Very nice looking set.

Finally, regarding the SR8400, have you attempted to set up the system with the room eq? Since the SR8400 has no internal parametric eq, do you think the system has the flexibility to satisfy everyone? Or is the sound so natural that is doesn't matter?

the DV84's:

I think they play plenty loud. I tried them with my junk bedroom receiver (because I knew this would come up) and they sounded good. I don't know if I'd say the lowest frequencies suffer. The bass is accurate and tight.

Acoustic suspension speakers tend to be the most accurate. The problem is that the bass traditionally starts to roll off pretty sharp around 35Hz. Bass reflex or any vented design help with the roll off, but sacrifice accuracy. The passive radiator design is superior when done right, and these are done right.

SR8400:

This is a really good receiver with good amplifiers. It does not have the flexibility, of say, your Denon; however, if you have a decent set of speakers this thing will drive them well. There is enough flexibility to make a good set of speakers sound good. I think it is a good compromise between a good HT receiver and a good 2ch combo. Plus, lots of clean power can take care of a lot of inadequacies in speakers, or room response.

 

[patnshan]

SR8400:

Plus, lots of clean power can take care of a lot of inadequacies in speakers, or room response.

I am so glad to hear this! I like how my speakers sounded with my old Yami RXV590 prologic so I can't wait to hook up the 8400!

Dumb question, but the Marantz shouldn't make it sound worse, right? That's what I am hoping until the wife lets me get some new Def Tech's or BIC's

Pat

 

[MacManNM]

I am so glad to hear this! I like how my speakers sounded with my old Yami RXV590 prologic so I can't wait to hook up the 8400!

Dumb question, but the Marantz shouldn't make it sound worse, right? That's what I am hoping until the wife lets me get some new Def Tech's or BIC's

Pat

It is a very neutral sounding unit. Well built and handsome. It drove my McIntosh speakers pretty well, I was pleasantly suprised, especially for the money I paid for it.

 

[silversurfer]

Plus, lots of clean power can take care of a lot of inadequacies in speakers, or room response.

Can you elaborate on this? How can more power affect in-room FR.

 

[MacManNM]

Can you elaborate on this? How can more power affect in-room FR.

Inductive speakers are a high current load. A lot of times cheaper amps don’t deliver current proportionately throughout the frequency band (mostly due to poor feedback designs). When the volume control is turned up the bias is increased, the speakers “come to life”. It is not necessarily a linear process. Better amps and control units tend put out a more consistent signal hence, your system sounds better. So perhaps I misspoke my point there.

 

[silversurfer]

OK, that I agree with. Better amps, not necessarily more power, and they affect the speaker, not the room.

 

[patnshan]

OK, that I agree with. Better amps, not necessarily more power, and they affect the speaker, not the room.

Great, so I should be better off with my mediocre speakers that sounded good to me before I got this better, higher power receiver?

Thanks for all the info. I should have this thing fired up soon. Just waiting for the component and optical cables to come in the mail.

Pat

 

[MacManNM]

Great, so I should be better off with my mediocre speakers that sounded good to me before I got this better, higher power receiver?

Thanks for all the info. I should have this thing fired up soon. Just waiting for the component and optical cables to come in the mail.

Pat

But dont forget, the better the amp, the more it will expose the flaws of the speakers too, it works both ways.

 

[patnshan]

But dont forget, the better the amp, the more it will expose the flaws of the speakers too, it works both ways.

Great! Then they will sound bad to my wife too, and she will insist on me getting new speakers. That would be terrible

Thanks much for the info!

Pat

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Adding to the Marantz

Inductive speakers are a high current load. A lot of times cheaper amps don’t deliver current proportionately throughout the frequency band (mostly due to poor feedback designs). When the volume control is turned up the bias is increased, the speakers “come to life”. It is not necessarily a linear process. Better amps and control units tend put out a more consistent signal hence, your system sounds better. So perhaps I misspoke my point there.

Is the Marantz a class AB amp? Aren't most receiver amps class AB? If you were to add a separate two channel amp to the Marantz, would you add a class A or AB, and why? What do you gain from one over the other? I think you mentioned you had a Proton amp. Which class is that?

 

[MacManNM]

Is the Marantz a class AB amp? Aren't most receiver amps class AB? If you were to add a separate two channel amp to the Marantz, would you add a class A or AB, and why? What do you gain from one over the other? I think you mentioned you had a Proton amp. Which class is that?

Most amps are class AB. Class A amps are usually much more expensive and much less efficient, also it takes a great deal of engineering to even get 50 watts out. A class A amplifier uses one transistor (or many in parallel) to output 100% of the sine wave.

A class AB amplifier uses 2 transistors (or many in parallel) in a push pull configuration to replicate a portion of the sine wave. Such that 2 transistors are sharing the load, thus making the unit much more efficient. Getting more power is much easier because each unit is only doing a portion of the load.

Adding an amp to the Marantz would only be needed if you were using some extremely inefficient speakers. But that’s on par with most receivers IMO.

The Proton is AB.

BTW, There are also some amps out there that are both A &AB, at lower outputs they play pure class A, when you turn them up, the biasing on the circuits changes and converts it to AB. In the early 90’s JVC made some really nice sounding components with this technology.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Most amps are class AB. Class A amps are usually much more expensive and much less efficient, also it takes a great deal of engineering to even get 50 watts out. A class A amplifier uses one transistor (or many in parallel) to output 100% of the sine wave.

A class AB amplifier uses 2 transistors (or many in parallel) in a push pull configuration to replicate a portion of the sine wave. Such that 2 transistors are sharing the load, thus making the unit much more efficient. Getting more power is much easier because each unit is only doing a portion of the load.

Adding an amp to the Marantz would only be needed if you were using some extremely inefficient speakers. But that’s on par with most receivers IMO.

The Proton is AB.

BTW, There are also some amps out there that are both A &AB, at lower outputs they play pure class A, when you turn them up, the biasing on the circuits changes and converts it to AB. In the early 90’s JVC made some really nice sounding components with this technology.

So would replicating a portion of the sine wave with a class AB lead to a slight deterioration of sound as opposed to outputting 100% of the sine wave with a class A? Furthermore, would a class D amp, normally used to power subwoofers because of efficiency, be an illogical choice for a receiver or amp? HK has two class D receivers right now.

 

[MacManNM]

So would replicating a portion of the sine wave with a class AB lead to a slight deterioration of sound as opposed to outputting 100% of the sine wave with a class A?

Technically Yes. Most claim it’s inaudible. Also there are some impedance and dampening issues that class A amps tend to deal with better than class AB.

Furthermore, would a class D amp, normally used to power subwoofers because of efficiency, be an illogical choice for a receiver or amp? HK has two class D receivers right now.

Class D amps are Junk. Period.

 

[annunaki]

Class D amps are Junk. Period.

Would you care to expound on that hypothesis as to why?