Music preference vs speaker change.

[Peterd123]

Hi all,
I am using Spendor S6e speakers with Quad 306's bi amping. With Cyrus Streamline2 and Cyrus CDT. Recently been thinking about going for the S8e speakers. But after looking at various review forums, I've almost decided to stick with my S6e's. It seems to me that our taste in music is more important than the system. So my point of this thread is to see what other people think regards music, brings their speakers to life. My idea is to get 2 or 3 pieces of music that sound good, that brings out bass, mid, treble. Then at least you have a datum/reference point of sorts before even looking for speakers.

 

[ryanosaur]

While true that poor recordings are pretty sad, there are also a lot of well recorded albums out there. It doesn’t have to be nominated for an award or have a sought-after producer to meet that criteria.
There are of course many lists of classic “audiophile albums” that circulate... Cambridge has a list dedicated to auditioning/testing speakers, for example.
I used my own library on iPod to do the deed. Might be lossy, but if my music as I have it digitized and stored isn’t good enough... well, one guy scoffed at me and my iPod. Everybody else just let me jack-in and go.
Regardless, best advice I heard, here from these cats at AH, was to pick 3-4 cuts: music you know well, preferably acoustic/non-amplified instrumentation. I chose a few good cuts from:
Joe Lovano: Evolution
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds: Love Letter
Fiona Apple: Paper Bag
I also took an orchestral recording of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring, something with extreme dynamic ranges.

At the end of the day, I found the change from speaker to speaker to be more revealing than “recording quality” or source... for the reason I stated above.
Using male vocal, female vocal, piano... all great ways to reveal flaws in the speakers you are listening too. I’m a saxophonist so a good jazz cut made sense to me.
Regardless, I now use Tidal, too. And I hear very little difference between when I stream from them vs Apple Music. Obviously, you’ll decide for yourself how to proceed. For me though, it was more about the speakers.

 

[highfigh]

I tended to think that using some of the best recordings in my collection were the ones to take when auditioning speakers until I thought about the fact that I wouldn't be listening to ONLY those recordings, so I listen to a lot of music produced by well-known people because they tend to have a particular 'sound' of their own and it tends to be pretty consistent. If the instruments sound good on their recordings, I make a list of the speakers that sounded best and narrow it down from there. It doesn't really matter to me if I like the music or am not familiar with it but knowing who recorded and produced it is a good baseline.

 

[Swerd]

ryanosaur said it very well, in my opinion. When you do audition speakers, the most important part is to bring music that you already know well. The medium and format of the recording matters less than the fact that you know it well.

 

[Pogre]

I like how Ryan put it too and that's my method, tho I do take some TOOL with me as well because I'm so familiar with the material. I used to play drums so I have a couple of percussion heavy tracks I use also since I know what drums are supposed to sound like.

 

[snakeeyes]

At home comparison is the way to go.

Banana plugs work so you can swap back and forth in a matter of seconds while paused in the middle of a song.

 

[ryanosaur]

tho I do take some TOOL with me as well

I had Gorillaz "Laika Come Home", too... Dub Remixes of many of their cuts, some with strong infrasonic content. It's impressive to hear what some speakers can deliver, and how, without Subs.

 

[highfigh]

ryanosaur said it very well, in my opinion. When you do audition speakers, the most important part is to bring music that you already know well. The medium and format of the recording matters less than the fact that you know it well.

I used to agree with that, but what if the speakers that were familiar to the listener weren't even close to accurate? They would be familiar with that sound, but accurately reproducing the music through different speakers wouldn't sound "right" to the person.

When people ask me how to audition speakers, I tell them to leave any personal preferences and feelings about their existing equipment at home. I also tell them to listen to speakers outside of their budget and find something for less that sounds close.

 

[highfigh]

I like how Ryan put it too and that's my method, tho I do take some TOOL with me as well because I'm so familiar with the material. I used to play drums so I have a couple of percussion heavy tracks I use also since I know what drums are supposed to sound like.

How many recordings have drums that sound like you're next to them? I would say that those are in a very small minority of recordings because, as great as live drums can sound, recordings usually opt for a much more polite sound. Same with electric guitar- what's on the recording is not the same as having your ears drilled out by screaming leads and amps that, live, sound tinny and shrill. Some amps and guitars sound great on record, but live, I don't want to be in the same county.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, I've never thought I'm screwed on speakers because I have eclectic tastes. I am more in the camp these days of build it myself or buy it unheard as auditioning speakers would take a fairly major road trip, which isn't as interesting as a little mystery. When I have taken material with me to test a speaker in the past it's a variety and music that I'm fairly familiar with. I'd agree the music is more important than the system, tho.

 

[Pogre]

How many recordings have drums that sound like you're next to them? I would say that those are in a very small minority of recordings because, as great as live drums can sound, recordings usually opt for a much more polite sound. Same with electric guitar- what's on the recording is not the same as having your ears drilled out by screaming leads and amps that, live, sound tinny and shrill. Some amps and guitars sound great on record, but live, I don't want to be in the same county.

I have this live, long intro version of "Hotel California" on cd (it does not exist on youtube). I think when you can hear the percussion clearly in the beginning it sounds pretty accurate. I first heard this version on a pair of B&W 802D3s and it blew me away. Both the recording and the speakers. This track is definitely one I bring along.

A new one for me is Danny Carey's "Chocolate Chip Trip" drum solo from TOOL's new cd.

Even with some studio recordings the toms and kick still sound natural enough that at high volume, yes, they sound like they're in the room with me. I love turning CCT up every time for that reason. The kick isn't perfect and the cymbals are tamed down, but I can still pick out some nuances in the ringing of different cymbals and the way the wood and skins resonate when struck. Not just hear it but feel it too.

I don't just rely on listening to drum heavy tracks. I grew up in a musical family and band practices were always at our house so I have a good point of reference from there too. I've been to a bunch of small venue live shows and backyard get togethers when I was a kid. I got pretty good at helping out with setting up lights, mic stands, various equipment and speakers... I'm straight rambling, lol.

I also have a Chesky's demonstration cd I bought and ripped and I've familiarized myself with a few songs on it too. That's one thing that's so nice about digital media. You can bring a lot of music with nowadays. I have a bunch on my phone and plenty of room to spare.

 

[Truthslayer]

I like what Pogre said. And I have to add,( These are my opinions and might not be a one for all case.) But I have come to the conclusion over the years, driver size really matters. Small drivers no matter how hard they try, just cant do what larger drivers are capable of. It's just amazing what a 15'' mid can do along with a 2'' comprssion horn driver ( but they do have to be of good quality) along with 18'' subs. Music just seems so much more natural and realistic. Even at extreme low level listening, you still get every detail in the music.
That may not be a good recipe for home theatre, but for music, it's the cat's pajama's.

 

[Swerd]

I used to agree with that, but what if the speakers that were familiar to the listener weren't even close to accurate? They would be familiar with that sound, but accurately reproducing the music through different speakers wouldn't sound "right" to the person.

If people are familiar with how a recording sounds on their present speakers, they will quickly recognize if that same recording sounds different on new speakers. They may not be able to assess if the new sound is accurate or not, but they should be able to tell if it sounds different. If their recorded music includes voices, and music from commonly heard non-amplified instruments, such as piano or guitar, that can help identify whether speakers are accurate or colored. Learning what accuracy sounds like in loud speakers can take a long time.

Most people who shop for speakers do so because they aren't satisfied with what they presently hear.
I've known plenty of people who only listened to music in their cars. Yet they didn't try to emulate that sound in the speakers they bought.

With time and some shopping around, they should be able to develop a sense of whether they like the sound of new speakers. Few people can readily identify accuracy, but most people do learn what they prefer.

When people ask me how to audition speakers, I tell them to leave any personal preferences and feelings about their existing equipment at home. I also tell them to listen to speakers outside of their budget and find something for less that sounds close.

I can agree with listening outside their budget, if they are disciplined about spending. It helps them to develop a sense of what sound qualities you can get within a given price range. But other people end up spending more than they initially wanted. So I have mixed feelings about that.

 

[highfigh]

If people are familiar with how a recording sounds on their present speakers, they will quickly recognize if that same recording sounds different on new speakers. They may not be able to assess if the new sound is accurate or not, but they should be able to tell if it sounds different. If their recorded music includes voices, and music from commonly heard non-amplified instruments, such as piano or guitar, that can help identify whether speakers are accurate or colored. Learning what accuracy sounds like in loud speakers can take a long time.

Most people who shop for speakers do so because they aren't satisfied with what they presently hear.
I've known plenty of people who only listened to music in their cars. Yet they didn't try to emulate that sound in the speakers they bought.

With time and some shopping around, they should be able to develop a sense of whether they like the sound of new speakers. Few people can readily identify accuracy, but most people do learn what they prefer.
I can agree with listening outside their budget, if they are disciplined about spending. It helps them to develop a sense of what sound qualities you can get within a given price range. But other people end up spending more than they initially wanted. So I have mixed feelings about that.

This is a bit long and it gets into details many people will never think about, but....

The first part is what I was saying- they probably don't know how inaccurate their speakers are, but they often decide to look for something different after hearing something better. I know I did- my system was better than anything we'd had at home before but once I started hanging out in the dorms at school and heard what some of the others had, I immediately started messing with my speakers and trying to improve them.

The tricky part about listening to acoustic instruments is that, even if all of the recordings are accurate, the sound of different brands of guitars, pianos and others sound different, so it's not possible to base the sound on the generalities of "it has acoustic guitar" when one track has something from Martin, Gibson, Taylor or other brands- they all have their own sound. Then, there are the mics and other processors. I think it's best to listen with naive ears- don't be obsessed with the fine points, just listen to the sound and listen to a wide range of recordings. As a couple of examples, listen to Keb' Mo' and Allison Krauss & Union Station- the instruments are recorded extremely well, IMO, but they use different brands of guitars- Keb' Mo' uses & endorses Gibson, Dan Tyminski uses an old Martin and I assume they both use mics and transducers, but I don't know for sure. Then, listen to other music, where there's no real clarity to the guitar sound, although it may fit well in the mix- best to listen to music that features the instrument, rather than mix it up and compare something where it's front & center vs background.

I didn't mean that people should be steered toward more expensive speakers by the salesperson as a tactic to make money but in the AV industry, they preach that it's easier to get someone to move down than it is to move up to more expensive items. THEY'RE all about making money, I have always been into getting the best sound for my customers, based on their budget and other requirements.

The good thing about all of this- our minds allow us to become accustomed to sounds that aren't necessarily accurate if nothing changes. Listen to a stringed instrument and over time, the sound changes because strings age. Listening to the instrument on a recording changes nothing, so that sound is fixed but one thing that frustrates me with my acoustic guitars is that the strings have a small window where I really like the sound and the rest of the time, it's hard to be totally happy with the sound. New strings sound very bright and older strings sound dull, but as a background instrument, bright strings is sometimes exactly what's needed, while dull-sounding strings punch through for playing rhythm, so there's no "always perfect".

 

[Pogre]

This is a bit long and it gets into details many people will never think about, but....

The first part is what I was saying- they probably don't know how inaccurate their speakers are, but they often decide to look for something different after hearing something better. I know I did- my system was better than anything we'd had at home before but once I started hanging out in the dorms at school and heard what some of the others had, I immediately started messing with my speakers and trying to improve them.

The tricky part about listening to acoustic instruments is that, even if all of the recordings are accurate, the sound of different brands of guitars, pianos and others sound different, so it's not possible to base the sound on the generalities of "it has acoustic guitar" when one track has something from Martin, Gibson, Taylor or other brands- they all have their own sound. Then, there are the mics and other processors. I think it's best to listen with naive ears- don't be obsessed with the fine points, just listen to the sound and listen to a wide range of recordings. As a couple of examples, listen to Keb' Mo' and Allison Krauss & Union Station- the instruments are recorded extremely well, IMO, but they use different brands of guitars- Keb' Mo' uses & endorses Gibson, Dan Tyminski uses an old Martin and I assume they both use mics and transducers, but I don't know for sure. Then, listen to other music, where there's no real clarity to the guitar sound, although it may fit well in the mix- best to listen to music that features the instrument, rather than mix it up and compare something where it's front & center vs background.

I didn't mean that people should be steered toward more expensive speakers by the salesperson as a tactic to make money but in the AV industry, they preach that it's easier to get someone to move down than it is to move up to more expensive items. THEY'RE all about making money, I have always been into getting the best sound for my customers, based on their budget and other requirements.

The good thing about all of this- our minds allow us to become accustomed to sounds that aren't necessarily accurate if nothing changes. Listen to a stringed instrument and over time, the sound changes because strings age. Listening to the instrument on a recording changes nothing, so that sound is fixed but one thing that frustrates me with my acoustic guitars is that the strings have a small window where I really like the sound and the rest of the time, it's hard to be totally happy with the sound. New strings sound very bright and older strings sound dull, but as a background instrument, bright strings is sometimes exactly what's needed, while dull-sounding strings punch through for playing rhythm, so there's no "always perfect".

I think you're over complicating it. On a good recording I can tell whether a drummer is using vinyl or wood sticks, for instance. I agree hearing better speakers than your own with material you're familiar with isn't a bad idea. It helped me and inspired some more experimentation.

 

[highfigh]

I have this live, long intro version of "Hotel California" on cd (it does not exist on youtube). I think when you can hear the percussion clearly in the beginning it sounds pretty accurate. I first heard this version on a pair of B&W 802D3s and it blew me away. Both the recording and the speakers. This track is definitely one I bring along.

A new one for me is Danny Carey's "Chocolate Chip Trip" drum solo from TOOL's new cd.

Even with some studio recordings the toms and kick still sound natural enough that at high volume, yes, they sound like they're in the room with me. I love turning CCT up every time for that reason. The kick isn't perfect and the cymbals are tamed down, but I can still pick out some nuances in the ringing of different cymbals and the way the wood and skins resonate when struck. Not just hear it but feel it too.

I don't just rely on listening to drum heavy tracks. I grew up in a musical family and band practices were always at our house so I have a good point of reference from there too. I've been to a bunch of small venue live shows and backyard get togethers when I was a kid. I got pretty good at helping out with setting up lights, mic stands, various equipment and speakers... I'm straight rambling, lol.

I also have a Chesky's demonstration cd I bought and ripped and I've familiarized myself with a few songs on it too. That's one thing that's so nice about digital media. You can bring a lot of music with nowadays. I have a bunch on my phone and plenty of room to spare.

I heard that version of Hotel California last night and it's one of the songs that reinforces my opinion that I got it right with the speakers I built- I haven't used my sub since I started using them. It's not like having a sub, but I don't miss it.

I once heard someone describe Hotel California as "a bad Yelp review with a 2-1/2 minute guitar solo".

I didn't know Tool did that kind of stuff- I'll have to check out more from them. That sounded great here, too.

 

[snakeeyes]

I’m not understanding the drummers and guitarist comments but I only played piano so maybe it’s lost on me. LOL

 

[Pogre]

I’m not understanding the drummers and guitarist comments but I only played piano so maybe it’s lost on me. LOL

Crank up CCT and listen to how his toms ring down when struck. Each one has a different resonance and hang time. You can feel it in your chest too. Listen for the ring in the snare drum too.

 

[ryanosaur]

I’m not understanding the drummers and guitarist comments but I only played piano so maybe it’s lost on me. LOL

Think of it like judging a speaker with a Fender Rhodes, or a harpsichord recording, when you only know piano.
(More apt would be to compare a tinny, out of tune, upright piano in an old bar... to a Bösendorfer grand piano.)

I would add to this particular chain of thought, that every saxophonist exhibits there own sound due to anything from mouthpiece and reed selection to embouchure and lung capacity. I still know what a saxophone should sound like, regardless of the musician: Trane, Gordon, Shorter, Davis, Mobley, Henderson, Lovano, Brecker, Bechet, Redman (father or son), Bergonzi, Desmond, Mulligan....
The recording environment and production will have more impact than the musicians independent characteristics imo.
2¢

 

[snakeeyes]

Crank up CCT and listen to how his toms ring down when struck. Each one has a different resonance and hang time. You can feel it in your chest too. Listen for the ring in the snare drum too.

That song is right up against 7empest in track order. I really like 7empest and I skip over CCT maybe too much. LOL