Multi Room Audio

[oohsam]

Hey Guys,
Im new to this place, I have been doing alot of reading latley, Just some backround, Im from Australia, Used to work in an audio store a while back now, but I still got alot of experience.

I am curerntly building my own hose, and we are at Frame stage, so its ideal to prewire now before the plaster goes in. I want to run speakers in most rooms, and outside. We have limited stock in Australia, and locating an amp to do this has been difficult. I have 12 zones to run, I will be setting up a pair of speakers per room/zone, with volume knobs on each doorway entry into that room.

I will be purchasing the Phoenix Gold MX1260 12 Channel Power Amplifier, which allows to power all 12 chanells simultanesouly, and volume will be controlled from the wall of each room. This is probablly the cheapest most effective way I can think of at the moment to do this.

Does anyone have any thoughts on my setup? or any advice they can offer.

Regards

 

[BMXTRIX]

There are a few posts you should go over that I extensively wrote covering prewiring and there is some good info on the site as well.

FIRST: You are looking at a 12 channel amplifier which will provide stereo amplification to SIX zones, not 12. Each speaker is it's own amplified channel so you actually have a total of 24 channels of amplification necessary. Perhaps a lesser expensive amp? When budget matters, I recommend the Sonance 1230 amp which is hundreds less than their 1250, but provides more power than most people ever require for listening to music. I personally use Rotel RMB-1048 amps which are 8 channel, 40WPC amps about 800 bucks (MSRP) each. I use 2 to drive 8 stereo zones and they are pretty darn loud in each zone when I crank them up.

Bottom line: PREWIRE, PREWIRE, PREWIRE! It is phenomenally cheap to prewire the heck out of your home. A nice amp, like what you have is great, but you may want to consider upgrading the volume control knobs to something that allows for remote pre-amp control.

My understanding is that volume controls throttle back the output of an amp and decrease audio quality. While a very common way of doing things, you don't get the best in audio quality, and for such a nice, high powered amp, like that, you really are getting a lot of quality, then maiming it by using volume controls.

But - price plays into it.

I recommend, that even if it isn't in the budget right now, at least wire for control keypads to go into each room with speakers. Just an extra piece of CAT-5 wiring to the control wall location.

You also should go ahead and wire EVERY room of the house up. Even those not getting speakers right away. The bathrooms, laundry areas, outdoors, garage, etc. It is easy to use up a lot more zones than you are wiring for.

CONDUIT IS YOUR FRIEND!

3/4" conduit to some locations, 1" or 2" for video locations and between floors. It opens up the possibility to add more wiring later if necessary. Especially in this time of video flux where things may change on you next year and your 'industry standard' cable now is obsolete. It is cheap, and a great way to protect yourself.

Just a aesthetic possiblity: Put the volume controller into the same box as the electrical switches. Really, no affect at all on audio quality, but you don't end up with a separate knob 4 inches away from your light switch. Conlon sells hard boxes and high voltage/low voltage separators that make this easy to install in rooms you KNOW you will have audio from the beginning.

Don't forget your home networking, phone, and cable/sat lines to be run as well! Also, if you may, possibly, put an antenna up on the room, include wiring, or retro ability, for the antenna and a rotor for it.

I ran conduit, then added XM Radio - the radio is in my basement, the antenna is in my attic. Took 30 minutes to run the wire through conduit and hook it all up. Much better than hours of trying to fish cable through a completed home.

Ask if you have more questions.

 

[oohsam]

Thanks for the info, I have been reading many threads you have replied to in relation to wiring. You're a grat help.

I will be also running cat 5 cable to all rooms for access to a home network or to connect a media centre. I will defiantly be running the Cat 5 cables to the points on each room now (thanks for your advice) for a possible upgrade in the future. I have no problem spending money on cable now as it is a very cheap component in home audio and if done propery, can save you alot of trouble later.

I have seen the light switches/volume controls youare talking about and had considered this.

I do have a few questoins actually.
1. Becuase control keypads are so pricey, I have not bothered to look into this too much, will i be running cat 5 cable back to the same point as the amplifier, Ie, 6 rooms, 6 cables to each room all running back to the audio source. (its a dumb question, but I need to be sure)

2. With conduit, do you just use the flexible stuff, also, how can this help with running new wires? Do you simply tie the new wire to the old wire and pull the new wire through?

3. I have absolutley no interst in running seperate av sources to each room, I will be setting up a home theatre, and all the movie watching will be done in that room, however i will make allowance for it, incase i change my mind.

4. In relation to the amplifiers. My understanding is that when you turn on the amp, power is distrubuted to every channel, however the setting on the volume knob will turn that channel 'on or off', am i wrong in assuming this, my worry is runing 1 or 2 zones for long perionds of time, thus overheating the amp if it is powering every channel....do you see what im trying to say.

 

[BMXTRIX]

1. Run conduit, leave it empty. Don't put any of your current wires inside the conduit. Leave it empty, then just run a wire through it when you need to later on. I just put conduit in places where I may need more wiring later. For example: I may add an LCD TV behind a mirror in my bathroom. So, I ran conduit down the wall where it would go. I may need more network or other cabling in my study, so I ran conduit there.

2. Conduit can be had from Parts Express - search conduit at their website. It is available in multiple sizes.

3. Yes, your distributed audio controller will be right next to the amplifier at the head end. (head end = where your amp and other source equipment is)

4. If you want to do things really inexpensively, you can get a single high power amplifier like a Sonance 2120 and then use a impedence matching speaker selector box. It will regulate power to all speakers. An amplifier, in a well air-circulated environement, will not have issues really. They only release power when they are actually driving a speaker. Kind of like 12 volt wall warts for your laptop. If your laptop is off, and the battery is fully charged, the transformer isn't really exerting much power to do anything and won't 'fail' prematurely.

Lots of options for sure though - the key is getting the wiring and future access in place now though. The equipment can really be dealt with later.

 

[oohsam]

Hey,
Ok, I spent about $600 on Cable yesterday. Ran Cat5e cable and speaker cable to every point there is a volume contorl. I used about 300meteres of cable. I just have to go back in tomorrow and run cable from the volume where the volume knobs are to where the speakers are, not a big job. But I ran out of cable twice yesterday. I forgot how quickly calbe gets used up!

I ran 1 sub point, Im thinking of running another one, incase I run another sub. Im running 5.1 (AC3) in the main home theatre room. but just in case I extend to system which runs two subs. The electrician hasnt come in yet and im a bit worried he'll run his power cable on the same line as my sub cable. So i'll have to go back in there and double check it.

I've run conduit in some places, but I going back in there later today to run more in places I think I might need to run cable but im a bit iffy on where to do it.
I have run it in the main room in case i go for a projector one day, and also in another room where I 'll be hanging my plasma and will need to run my component video cables etc.

My Questions if you can help:
1. Do u have any more advice on where I can Run Conduit I have plenty left over

2. I have some concernt on the hot water pipe. We use a plastic pipe here in australia which delivers hot water, I am not too sure how hot it gets but its not as hot as the metal pipes that were onc eused. Some of my cables run next to or over this pipe, and I am worried it may melt it. Is there some type of insulation i can wrap the cable in to sheild it from the heat.

3. Anything else you think I should run now that will save me hassle later on?

Regards.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Any chance in the world you can provide a complete list of everything you want to do and perhaps floor plans?

I spent about 16 hours or more planning out the wiring for my home and still was adding and making some changes during the actual wiring.

Gotta have the phone next to the toilet you know.

I have a 3 story home - basement, main level, second floor. Then, there is the attic.

I ran 2 pieces of 2" conduit from basement (head end) to attic so that I could run ANY wires I wanted to later. From your equipment location make sure there is plenty of access to your attic so you can add cables later if you need.

If YOU are running the cables...

Yeah, put cat-5 (ethernet) in every room, put phone in every room, put 2 pieces of coaxial cable (minimum) in every room. I ran 6 pieces with retro access to the master bedroom and a lot more than that to my primary viewing location (family room). It was 15 pieces to my projector, plasma, and VCR/DVD/PS2 location (my amp and such are in the basement).

I actually used bundled mini-RGB cable (www.extron.com) which allowed for just a few cable runs to take care of all those wires. Made things much easier.

I think I dropped about $1,000 or more (nearly at cost) on these cables. Cat-5 is cheap as is Coax. Decent speaker wire was a bit pricier. The RGB stuff was more expensive, but I had to pay for the install due to builder/contractural issues.

EDIT: Don't forget to have a power outlet right next to your subwoofer location(s)!!!

 

[oohsam]

You're going to laugh, but I have a single storey home. However, the internal walls have noggins in them and it is virutally impossible to run cable down internal walls without bashing the noggins out whilst youre in the cieling.

Basically, I am just intersted in multiroom audio, and 1 home theatre room. and a home network. I have no interest in multiple source selections, I just love music and want to have it in every room.

I will be hanging a plasma on the main home theatre room and have included provision for a projector.

I will be hanging a LCD tv fromt he ceiling usinga bracket in the kitchen that will be self driven (using its own speakers for audio).

The antenna points come with the house, and have placed them in rooms that I already want, however I have conduit in every room in case i need to add some more later down the track or other cabling.

Every room has a network cable running to it.

I will have outdoor speakers and speakers in the garage

I think thats basically it....I dont want to do anything fancy like putting a lcd screen behind my mirror or anything! hehe

Why run 2 peices of coax cable in every room? I dont see the need for that, even if I dont do it now, I will have conduit in each room so I can run the cables if need be.

with the power points, i have placed them stragically around the house already! Im one step ahead..hehe

Im Up to $800 on cable already and im not finished yet.....The speaker cable is definalty the most expensive. Cat 5 is cheap as piss...

EDIT : I cant find any info about this Cable you used (Bundled Mini RGB) I've googled it and cant really find much info.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you have conduit to each room, then don't worry about a thing really. You have the access to put whatever you need in, whenever you may want it.

Satellite often requires dual coax to run dual internal tuners, so the two pieces of coax are nice. But, that is something you can deal with later if the need arises. Which, it doesn't sound like it will.

Mini-HR Cable:
http://www.extron.com/product/listbytype.asp?subtype=48

I mostly use the 5-wire type, though they have 2-wire and 6-wire as well.

Sounds like you really have things under control and the available retro access will make things easier down the road if you need it!

 

[oohsam]

Your Help has been great. Im about to head off there now to finish of some small jobs with wiring. I dont know how to thank you, You have assisted me so much.
I hope I can repay the favour one day.
Regards