MQA - Hoisted on their own petard

[Doge]

...
Actually, I prefer a physical disc so that I actually OWN the media, then I rip it to FLAC for convenience. ...

I understand that. Is there any physical disc you have that did not have an intermediate digital form before getting to disc?
I understand those existed at one time, but seems since mid-70s or so - all went through some digital form.

The spinning of the media is not important to me. I don't understand the difference in a DXD/DSD to vinyl to ... vs DXD on SSD or USB.

It is pretty clear to all some music is recorded badly, and some music is bad.
One of my favs is Roadhouses & Automobiles by the late Chris Jones. That is only CD - 44.1 16 bit and as clean as 95% of what I get.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yamaha A-S801

It's a simplified readout based on multiples of 48 kHz, with the 'x8' being 384 kHz, 32 bit.

Thanks. It's just the roon that uses multiples of 44.1? I don't buy hi-res files outside of a few dvd/bluray discs.

 

[John Parks]

Thanks. It's just the roon that uses multiples of 44.1? I don't buy hi-res files outside of a few dvd/bluray discs.

The Yamaha will show what it is being fed, whether via Foobar (what I used to use most often) Tidal or Roon. If I am just glancing at the display (and if I feel the need to do so) I need to do a quick calculation as to the sample rate. Roon is specific and spells it out for you:

Now, I don't have any files that are sampled at, say 88.2 or 176 kHz, so I do not know how the Yamaha would choose to display them. Interesting - I may have to download one and see...

 

[lovinthehd]

The Yamaha will show what it is being fed, whether via Foobar (what I used to use most often) Tidal or Roon. If I am just glancing at the display (and if I feel the need to do so) I need to do a quick calculation as to the sample rate. Roon is specific and spells it out for you:
View attachment 28552
Now, I don't have any files that are sampled at, say 88.2 or 176 kHz, so I do not know how the Yamaha would choose to display them. Interesting - I may have to download one and see...

I thought your chart was for Tidal with the 88.2 or 176 files?

 

[highfigh]

I agree wholeheartedly! I would much rather own a CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, computer file (WAV, FLAC, DSD) BluRay audio or vinyl LP. At the same time, I enjoy as may options as I can for musical enjoyment. Roon/Tidal (and Roon/Qobuz) are completely awesome ways to listen and discover new music. Bring it up on an iPad and all the liner notes are there (and readable!). One advantage (and something we did not have while reading the liner notes of our LPs and the hazy pot smoke filled rooms of our youth - well at least my youth) is the ability to bring up a vast knowledge base of the artist one is listening to or skip on over to similar artists, etc.

Imagine my surprise when I opened the jacket of Al Stewart's 'Year Of The Cat' and found dried vegetation.

 

[John Parks]

I thought your chart was for Tidal with the 88.2 or 176 files?

Yup - I scabbed that from a website without looking at the sampling rates. I'll play around with Tidal/Roon and see if those specific one come up.

 

[John Parks]

Imagine my surprise when I opened the jacket of Al Stewart's 'Year Of The Cat' and found dried vegetation.

Mine was DSOTM...

 

[slipperybidness]

I understand that. Is there any physical disc you have that did not have an intermediate digital form before getting to disc?
I understand those existed at one time, but seems since mid-70s or so - all went through some digital form.
.

I'm not sure about that, and I'm not sure that I understand how that would work either.

You are saying that it goes from analog straight to the CD? But, there MUST be some ADC going on there, by the very nature of the processing.

 

[highfigh]

Mine was DSOTM...

So predictable.......

 

[John Parks]

So predictable.......

Indeed - I was fifteen years old and trying to fit in...

 

[highfigh]

Indeed - I was fifteen years old and trying to fit in...

I don't know when it got there, but I found it in 2003 long after I was 15.

 

[highfigh]

I understand that. Is there any physical disc you have that did not have an intermediate digital form before getting to disc?
I understand those existed at one time, but seems since mid-70s or so - all went through some digital form.

The spinning of the media is not important to me. I don't

If you look at CDs, they began to show a three-letter code, usually on the back and near a corner- this is called the 'SPARS code' and designates the format when they recorded the basic tracks, when it was mixed and it's final format. If you see AAD, it was tracked and mixed/mastered to analog tape, made into a CD. Peter Gabriel's Security was the first recording to be in digital format from the beginning, released in 1982, so its SPARS code would be DDD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code

 

[Bucknekked]

Not my understanding, you must be able to decode the MQA for full reveal of the "magic". It can be done in a computer with software, tho. If not using a computer I believe you must have the hardware enabled, tho.

We are saying the same thing I believe. If you use the Tidal desktop app with the MQA "Master Quality Audio Albums" on a computer you get pretty much the full monty of what they offer. That's how I ran Tidal during my 30 day side by side test with Spotify. I didn't buy any special DAC. But, I did run their app on a computer. I think we are lined up .

 

[Doge]

I'm not sure about that, and I'm not sure that I understand how that would work either.

You are saying that it goes from analog straight to the CD? But, there MUST be some ADC going on there, by the very nature of the processing.

I got it from the Internet - it must be true.
https://www.nativedsd.com/information/about-dsd http://blog.nativedsd.com/the-nativity-of-native/

I was aware of tape hiss on some old recording that went from analog to tape - then to records. I remember that from the 70s. Now - I've read (above), pretty much everything goes to some very dense digital middle storage.
Then the CDs, and records are made from that.
Some things are digitized at the mic (like my mic - Rode).

I don't think pure analog (0 digital conversion) is easy to get at all. And the older recording that are, and the players that play them are filled with transport noise - dust, scratches etc., so while I would agree it is analog, it depends a bit on your definition of pure.

So back to my comment - I think every modern recording is digitized somewhere along the path before making its way to the analog air... I welcome being educated to the exceptions. So storing on my USB is no different than on a CD (digital), or vinyl.

 

[highfigh]

I got it from the Internet - it must be true.
https://www.nativedsd.com/information/about-dsd http://blog.nativedsd.com/the-nativity-of-native/

I was aware of tape hiss on some old recording that went from analog to tape - then to records. I remember that from the 70s. Now - I've read (above), pretty much everything goes to some very dense digital middle storage.
Then the CDs, and records are made from that.
Some things are digitized at the mic (like my mic - Rode).

I don't think pure analog (0 digital conversion) is easy to get at all. And the older recording that are, and the players that play them are filled with transport noise - dust, scratches etc., so while I would agree it is analog, it depends a bit on your definition of pure.

So back to my comment - I think every modern recording is digitized somewhere along the path before making its way to the analog air... I welcome being educated to the exceptions. So storing on my USB is no different than on a CD (digital), or vinyl.

Many artists are moving back to using analog for the basic tracks because they have a different sound. It's not a subtle difference, either. It's possible to saturate a tape to levels that would cause horrible distortion in digital form because they don't want to use as much limiting and compression- in digital, there is no +3dB on the VU meters, it all stops at 0VU.

If you listen with headphones, it's possible to hear hiss begin just before an instrument's sound starts- this usually means they used something to 'gate' the signal (let it come through only after it passes a specific level) or sometimes, they added the sound only at that point on the tape, rather than recording continuously, from the beginning. This is called a 'punch in' and only last as long as they need that part to last, like a solo. Dark Side Of The Moon is a good example- it's more noticeable during the quieter parts.

 

[Doge]

Many artists are moving back to using analog for the basic tracks because they have a different sound. It's not a subtle difference, either. It's possible to saturate a tape to levels that would cause horrible distortion in digital form because they don't want to use as much limiting and compression- in digital, there is no +3dB on the VU meters, it all stops at 0VU.

If you listen with headphones, it's possible to hear hiss begin just before an instrument's sound starts- this usually means they used something to 'gate' the signal (let it come through only after it passes a specific level) or sometimes, they added the sound only at that point on the tape, rather than recording continuously, from the beginning. This is called a 'punch in' and only last as long as they need that part to last, like a solo. Dark Side Of The Moon is a good example- it's more noticeable during the quieter parts.

I agree with that. I'm a Tube amp guy. It is analog, and there is distortion. But it sounds great - even though ss is better.
From @highfigh 's Wiki link above, AAA is very difficult to achieve. Esp if you are also ultimately running it through digital playback components. So storing in digital is just fine by me as I expect digital someplace. I want it converted well. More important is that it was recorded well.

 

[highfigh]

I agree with that. I'm a Tube amp guy. It is analog, and there is distortion. But it sounds great - even though ss is better.
From @highfigh 's Wiki link above, AAA is very difficult to achieve. Esp if you are also ultimately running it through digital playback components. So storing in digital is just fine by me as I expect digital someplace. I want it converted well. More important is that it was recorded well.

The last letter refers to the format of the medium, whether it's tape, CD/DVD/BD, thumb drive, HDD, cloud, etc. AAA can't be played through digital equipment and all of those digital versions MUST be passed through a DAC if analog playback equipment is used.

 

[slipperybidness]

I agree with that. I'm a Tube amp guy. It is analog, and there is distortion. But it sounds great - even though ss is better.
From @highfigh 's Wiki link above, AAA is very difficult to achieve. Esp if you are also ultimately running it through digital playback components. So storing in digital is just fine by me as I expect digital someplace. I want it converted well. More important is that it was recorded well.

Tubes vs. SS really is not the same as analog vs. digital.

For example, by the time you are feeding the signal through an amplifier, it will be in the analog domain, The method of the gain stage has nothing to do with analog vs. digi.

 

[Bucknekked]

Tubes vs. SS really is not the same as analog vs. digital.

For example, by the time you are feeding the signal through an amplifier, it will be in the analog domain, The method of the gain stage has nothing to do with analog vs. digi.

I don't think I've seen this distinction pointed out before. It makes sense to me now that you've explained it. I always appreciate learning something. This is my new learned nugget for today so far.

 

[Doge]

The last letter refers to the format of the medium, whether it's tape, CD/DVD/BD, thumb drive, HDD, cloud, etc. AAA can't be played through digital equipment and all of those digital versions MUST be passed through a DAC if analog playback equipment is used.

-It went from digital to that analog media (most likely), and you would need all analog playback equipment. But there was still a DAC before it went to disc. An early binding DAC so to speak.
OR
-Do the DAC at the listening time.

My comments are supported supported by your link and post that digital is in there somewhere in the path (except in rare instances). So - the media being analog is not really relevant.